Late

To start, can anyone recommend a superlative recording of Bach's Concerto for Violin, Strings and Continuo in E major? I've heard it so many times, but don't actually own a recording of it. (The last version I heard, on the radio, was Hilary Hahn's — technically flawless, perhaps too fast, and somewhat emotionless, but if she's given some space and breathing room to mature ... she is, after all, only 27.) All recommendations for Bach and Beethoven concertos especially welcome. Mendelssohn, too. I'm actually open to any recommendations for "must hear" concertos. This part of my classical collection is direly lacking, and these days that's where my ears are headed. Thanks for your expert advice!

Why did it get recalled?

Phew — for some reason, I'm not hungover. Maybe it was all the trans-fat in the Totino's pizza I ate. Jeebus, momentary throwbacks to being 21 are strange, and not necessarily recommended ... Anyway, now that that's out of my system, I hear this session — and maybe it's for the very fact that Denardo's playing drums — as a prime, or at least uncluttered, example of what Ornette's trying to do/say with harmolodics (yes, whatever that really means). Pitches don't have to take their place in any kind of diatonic, or even "atonal," system of intervals — they just are what they are: pitches. This leaves Ornette to do what (as it's been mentioned many times already by other musicians and writers) some country blues musicians do — inflect sound. And when Ornette inflects, it's often a sound of joy. Likewise, I'd venture, when Coltrane "inflects," it's a sound of seriousness and enterprise, and for Rollins it might be a sound of wit and seasoned playfulness. The "intervals" that Ornette plays generally seem to have, as their conscious or subconscious base, a folk quality to them (which I'm thinking of as fundamentally "major" with occasional transitions to "minor" — though those very words go against the whole idea of harmolodics, I guess). In the end, of course, none of that matters, and that's the beautiful thing about music — words always, without question, fail it. That's why the business of writing about music always strikes me as odd. As a result, I tend to require for myself, as only one listener of this music, that I try to maintain a necessarily naive (simply in the sense of being open) approach to hearing sound. In this way, when I feel, for whatever reasons, compelled to write something about music, I don't ask myself to turn to any kind of "knowledge" of the "history" of "jazz," but rather that raw, un-scholarly engagement: enthusiasm.

OK, never mind the fact that this week pretty much the only threads I've been bumping up are the Ornette threads and that I didn't post once in the Pulitzer thread. Also, never mind the fact that CAMO 24 oz. fortified malt liquor, with not one but FIVE X's, doesn't taste too bad on a Friday afternoon when the blues are too much, and one needs/thinks they need the taste of beer. What do you really think of this album? If you take the trumpet and violin playing for what it is, this album is close to a bad mo(ther)fo. Ornette Denardo Coleman is actually not bad in the ensemble playing. His "solos" leave something to be desired, but when he's playing behind his dad, it really ain't so bad. BUT, the big revelation comes when you listen to Charlie Haden. He's playing some Danny D'Imperio (e.g. DEEP) shit on this album, even making use at times of Mingus's sliding octave riff — listen to the guy on this record, and you won't need to say anything. Charlie Haden has no ass after this record, because HE PLAYED IT OFF. Really. Just listen to him. I tried (but probably failed, even with the CAMO) to make this post sound like Clem/Chew, but what I'm saying is: THIS IS THE CHEEDLY-BEEDLY-SHEET. 1966, and there are no — absolutely NO — documented recordings, live or studio, or in the woods (yeah, whatEVUH Bread and Bennink) of Ornette in 1963 ... even if Michael Fitzy sez there are ... but I wonder what Ornette was doing in '63 when my brother was being born. OK, never mind, and I apologize in advance, but I wonder what you think of THE EMPATHY FOXGLOVES. Elder Don Whittimore Coleman the IV

It sounds like the better bet overall is to purchase Live in Belgrade, 1971 rather than Whom Do You Work For?. I'm sure both concerts are great, but since the material covered is the same, and if one has to choose ... I've heard the Belgrade disc in parts, and the sound is excellent. And, though it was "released" on compact disc in 1995 and seems now pretty hard to come by — jazzloft.com currently is carrying it. A heads-up for those who want to hear this formation in good sound.

To my mind, with Ornette the unlicensed recordings are a big part of the story (as with many major jazz artists). If I were you, I certainly wouldn't miss this. In fact, even though I have the vinyls I'll probably pick one up myself when it appears. BTW, with reference to the original discussion, Get Back is Italian, not Spanish. Yes, I won't miss it. There's mention of the Get Back label on this thread? It's Gambit that's releasing the Hillcrest recordings. Of course, if the Siberia label Jhunip released the recordings, I'd buy it from them.

Listened to this bad daddy twice through today. On "Harlem's Manhattan," Cherry must be using a mute, at least on the head. But it's not a Harmon mute. A strange, but attractive, sound he's getting there. Ornette does seem to be pushing himself out of some of the riffs that he affords himself on alto. In the process, though, I think he plays over Jimmy Garrison quite a lot. A lot of energy on this record. I wish the Japanese market would reissue this title again — the U.S. box set, from which I'm hearing this session, is starting to show its age.

Yeah, anger management. Like I said, I hope it's not true, but I suppose stranger things have happened.

Also of note — our friends in Spain are about to release the complete Hillcrest recordings of Ornette and Paul Bley. I usually resist buying Gambit/Lonehill/Nutter-Butter CDs, but, as I've never heard this material, I may have to dig up my credit card from the spot I buried it in the back lawn.

Thanks for the clarification, 7/4. You're right — the shakuhachi is considerably different in timbre. I have one recording of various Japanese musicians playing that instrument, and it's beautiful. I typed "shakuhachi," but I think I meant musette.

I noticed that too. There are few examples around (The Gift on Savoy, also an ESP session) of Moffett's vibes playing — he generally likes to play the thing loud!

D'oh! I was just thinking of that photo yesterday. (Ornette, Kenny Dorham, Mingus, Max Roach.) Max must have reconciled with Ornette ... after (as most accounts claim) he accosted him physically after Ornette's Five Spot gig. I've even read that Max followed Ornette to his apartment, stood outside, and shouted names at his window. I hope that isn't true, but one never knows, do one?

Now that's a Mingus title! You're right! I wonder if Ornette and Mingus would have been compatible. If so, they could have made some interesting music together — Mingus playing piano on his bass and Ornette playing bongos on his alto saxophone.

Ornette Coleman Quartet Ornette Coleman (as) Charlie Haden, David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d) "Village Theatre", NYC, March 17, 1967 The Little Symphony Just For You A Capella For Three Wise Men And A Saint Buddha Lives Love And Sex Atavism European Echoes Apparently this gig was part of the Forms and Sounds session but was never released. I'm assuming that RCA no longer has the tapes, and that Ornette does. Would love to hear it. Was anyone here at the gig? There's another live New York gig that occurred shortly before the one above. It too would be great to hear: Ornette Coleman Trio Ornette Coleman (as, tp, vln) David Izenzon (b) Charles Moffett (d, vib) Fall 1966 - New York City Faces And Places Sadness Morning Song Bass Improvisation, I Morning Song (alt. take) Bass Improvisation, II Alone And Arrest European Echoes European Echoes (alt. take) This made it out as a bootleg in Japan, I guess: Vap-VPLR 70353 Another one, at least on paper, that seems worthy of hearing.

Disc One sounds excellent for a boot, Disc Two doesn't sound as good. No one's talked about Ornette's shenai playing on "Buddha Blues" yet. That is some far out shiite. Ornette really gets a handle on it around the 8 minute mark, and the groove with Blackwell is incredible. What's the difference between a shenai, shakuhachi, and tarogato? They all seem to have similar timbres.

That is one scary Adam's Apple. The original title of the composition, I believe, was "Who Do You Work For?" The dative whom is grammatically correct, but it seems a little anachronistic and/or slightly pretentious in that question. At least to me. Of course, the original go at the title was a little more awkward: "From Which Entity Do You Employ Your Labors and Extract Compensation?"

Did you ever find a copy, C? In certain circles, there seems to be an enormous amount of buzz regarding this album — a holy grail buzz of sorts. I've never heard the music, but of course would like to. Is it much different than the ESP session? Who here has heard it?

I have two friends living in Japan right now, and they've reported hearing a lot of good jazz in coffee shops — not just Blue Train or The Sidewinder, but Dizzy Reece, J.R. Monterose, and occasionally Ornette (though usually just the Atlantic sides), for example. I haven't heard specifically about good sound systems, but, check out this out, one of the shops my friend in Wakayama frequents serves their coffee drinks in paper cups (ugh) ... with original Blue Note covers printed on the paper (yeah!). He brought back an (empty) latte to show me — it had Clifford Brown's Memorial album on it. It was weird and cool at the same time. On a somewhat related note, my friend in Koriyama says that the names "Sonny Clark" and "Lee Morgan," while not exactly being household names, are commonly recognized in music circles — on par with "Miles Davis," "John Coltrane," and other expected names to drop when it comes to jazz. Apparently there was an urban myth for a while that "Cool Struttin'" was something like an underground national anthem over there.

I wonder if you could elaborate on this idea a bit more. I've had the same thought as well, but recently (after hearing Redman's Fontana debut) have changed my mind some. I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, I just wonder what brings you to that idea.

One additional note: I believe that Whom Do You Work For? was also released as Rock the Clock by a Spanish label called Fruit Tree (I think I have that right). The discs should contain the same material.

This is how I understand the sessions to work out: • The Belgrade Concert (Jazz Door) = November 2, 1971 (quartet) - Belgrade, Yugoslavia • Whom Do You Work For? (Get Back) = November 5, 1971 (quartet) - Berlin, West Germany So, yes, even though I haven't heard either disc, I believe they're separate performances. It would be very nice, instead of boots, to have these, along with other live shows, to be compiled into a box set. Slim chance, I know, but if Ornette picked up on Sonny's lead (releasing previous boots on his own label), it would not only be possible, but (potentially) profitable!

That one really is beautiful. I have the Japanese edition of Mainstream '58, and it's one of the better sounding discs in my collection. I usually play it along with The Complete Stardust Sessions.

I ordered the Tyner, and Mosaic accidentally sent the Hutcherson. I kept the Hutcherson, and then purchased the Tyner again — Mosaic charged me for both, which of course is fair, but didn't double charge on shipping. That was nice. I tend to order Mosaics one at a time, but now I play these two Selects in tandem. They fit well. I wasn't going to order the Hutcherson, but now I'm glad Mosaic made the mistake in shipping!

No worries. I take it you didn't have some of the individual CDs prior to your purchase? I guess I kind of knew what to expect, so maybe that helps in my enjoyment.

Great cover! Can you say PAISLEY? Nice! Care to post the other covers ... ?