JSngry

Never heard that before, always heard that Jarrett was copping hard from Paul bley (which I think holds more than a little true). As far as the Guaraldi thing...don't know? Possibly? Guaraldi himself seemed to me to be a personal offshoot of various soul-jazz pianists, but looking at his history, time/place, he would have been in the San Francisco area when Brubeck was, so who knows how that worked out? Re-listening to Brubeck lately has highlighted some things in his playing that I long thought were one "thing", but now...maybe something else? All I know is that if you believe the histories, there was not really much of a "modern jazz" scene at all in SF in the late-40s/early 50s, everything was Trad revival, so the modern guys kind had their own space to fill. not to say that it was an influence on anybody, but the whole "twangy" jazz piano thing in general always seemed like an untentended side-effect of Floyd Cramer somehow. Although people like to hear it as "gospel", it's really a different inflection, although most everything else lines up. So...I don't know. Music is weird like that sometimes!

Ah, career momentum! Still wonder if CBS at some point said, hey, we should have this on the label we own...but maybe not? Wasn't the Charlie Brown Christmas thing viewed as sort of a gamble before it hit the air?

Yeah, I saw that. Interesting. What triggered the question was I was listening to Pandora the other night and "Everybody's Jumping" from Time Out came on, and I was like, wow, this kinda sounds like Charlie Brown music...then thinking about Brubeck's sompositions and paino style in general, you know, thought start connecting, finally go to Snoopy as Paul Desmond (woulda' been perfect, right?) and then...CBS, how did Fantasy end up with that album, and now...how did vince Guarlidi get the gig anyway? He did epochal cultural landmark work, so no problem, jsut wondering how it cane to be, really. Did "Cast Your Fate To The Wind" have that ball rolling at that particular time?

Treated what way? All comments have been about Oscar Peterson, not about people who enjoy him, except the Evil Knivel logic thing to BBS. But he do that with me, I do that to him. Shouldn't be any surprises there, smilies implict on both sides. Simply put - if I have insulted anybody personally on this thread, sincerest apologies. If it's just that I don't really like Oscar Peterson and don't see a need to censor those options because Oscar Peterson fans get upset, sorry, can't help you with that. Whatever the thing is about the "right to be here" and all that, hey, true for you, true for me. Friendly? Again - none of this is personal towards posters, and oh btw3, I do not have nightmares about Oscar Peterson, now that's personal! I just get drug by his playing. And oh, by the way, expecting me to not respond when commented directly to assumes a level of personal rudeness I do not have. You speak to me, i'll speak back, it would be uncivil of me to do otherwise. And please, do tell us again how you feel about Ornette Coleman.

As long as there are gigs, there will be players. If the gigs remain and the talent pool shrinks, the talent pool can then demand more money, which after a while, gets more people playing, to get those gigs. And then...lather rinse repeat. But - it's harder than hell, that double reed thing is a bitch (both physically and practically), and the fingering system...the instrument would not be invented today, let's put it that way. People understand shortcuts and acoustics far more than they did them. I checked one out one summer while a youth, and it got to be one of things where the difficulty became both annoying and challenging, just to get the major scales happening without struggle was a triumph afaic, and that was when I turned it back in. Great instrument, though, very flexible, and very expressive, and right in that range where it can sing and honk as the need be. Overplayed or underplayed, though, it's crap. So...hard work, imagination, and good taste, not exactly qualities in abundance these days, so maybe it is doomed after all.

Just seems like a natural fit, Merry Christmas Charlie Brown on CBS, Brubeck on Columbia. Did that conversation ever happen at any point in the process that anybody knows of? Not complaining about Vince Guaraldi, mind you. Just wondering about Snoopy as Paul Desmond, things like that.

I hear grunting!

I have no Oscar Peterson records in my "real" collection, but as a sideman, he's intrinsically unavoidable, unless one wants to not listen to any number of fine (or better) records by any number of great players over any number of decades. Those who like him should be aware of just how quasi-omnipresent he is over the latter half of the 20th Century, and how that might affect the perception of those who no not particularly warm to his contributions. It's not like "just don't listen to him" is a serious plan. Just like not listening to Donald Byrd is impossible if you're gonna delve into 1950s Hard Bop at any kind of real level. And I'm not really annoyed by Donald Byrd, but...the guy made a lot of records and plays more or less the same thing on many of them. At some point, I have to tolerate him more than enjoy him, and again, he does not annoy me like Oscar Peterson does, not even close. But avoiding him is impossible unless you want to get all eccentric about it.

And some of them are piano players named Oscar Peterson! Just sayin'...all enjoyments get stomped on, fact of life. Life is not stomp-proof, nor should it be. And even if it maybe, in some theoretical system should be, it never will be. Not unless and until everybody has the same mind about everything.

Do you ever grunt when you masturbate? I know I do! Tatum...a little goes a long way, mostly because of density, though, not paucity of value. And really, that's his shit, so, yeah, power of ownership always respected. and Tatum had gears, he had his routines, but when he got the bee up his butt, he could fly, fly, fly away, play shit ain't nobody thought to play. So, Tatum...deep cat. OP, not deep. Take away Tatum and Nat, and...what's left? The crime is not having obvious influences, the crime is just sitting on them and never hatching them, the hen that lays but never hatches. Suitable for field trips, but not a useful resource on a real working farm. Listen again to that clip from 1949 that Joe posted, and then listen to most/damn near all OP records since...what change has their been, what deep and lasting evolution? If those sides would have been cut in 1979 instead of 1949, how would you know? Again, nothing wrong with being/doing that, but just call it what it is - Display Playing. And damn successful Display Playing at that. I'm cool with that. Where it gets weird is when people get upset when it gets called that. Again, masturbation, everybody does it, but who cops to it? Now, time to wash the towels. And really, what kind of Evil Knievel-ish leaps of logic lead to not really caring for OP being predictive of a dismissal of Tatum? You'd have to be deaf to hear them as the same thing except on the most superficial of levels. Serious discussion? About Tatum=Peterson? That math don't work, even with cheating.

"Best" vs "Favorite", that gets tricky sometimes, because...it does. Take Sonny Rollins, ok, by any standard Saxophone Collussus, not just one of his best, but one of the best, a monumental accomplishment. And I wore it out back in the day, that's just what you do with monumental accomplishments. But - Falling In Love With Jazz...that's one of my favorite Rollins albums, bar none, and its in no way one of The Best Sonny Rollins Records Ever. Same thing (to a much lesser extent) with Nucleus. Why? Basically just because I just like how he plays the saxophone on those records. there's a little more to it than that, both albums (especially Falling In Love...) have moments where it sounds like he forgets he's recording and just rips loos with all that left-field uber creative virtuosity that is implicit in everything he plays, but, you know, sometimes explicit is a treat. If I listen to any music/artist long enough, it gets to be an investment in a conversation, a years-long conversation. And sometimes the "favorite" conversations have nothing to do with being the "best" ones, sometimes it's just something meaningless that hits you just right at the moment. I've been having these conversations with Sonny Rollins, for about 45 years now, so...it's the little things that get noticed, the great things, they're pretty much a given, if you want to look at a figure in a textbook or something, yeah, you get the facts of greatness and you're good. But should you desire past that, little things. Lots of little things. As far as OP goes, musical (which means at at least some level, personal) masturbation is what I hear, seriously. I don't ever hear winks and grins and chuckles that this is a shared activity, and/or at least that we're all in on the joke, I just hear GOING AT IT HARD, OH YEAH. 64K BLUE64thNOTES DAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllleeeee.....Towel, please. I'm kinda like, get your own towel, dude. Nothing wrong with masturbation, I'm a fan of it myself (thus the thread stays open), but also, it's a private act as far as do I want to be around somebody else that on my jazz record music, do I want to be their spectator, and no, I don't. Maybe if they had their own towel, but, even then, it would have to be some kind of ironic, I'm not getting in on that just because it's happening. Or if masturbation is too masturbatory a reference, try bullfighting...visceral gratification from flashy execution of predetermined outcomes, "chance" as much illusion as actual possibility. Poor bull, but there's a market for that type of thing, so whaddya' gonna do?.

No, that's wrong, you're right about that. OTOH, I never feel particularly bad about requesting that masturbation be kept private, you know, if you're gonna do that, take it to your room, or at least over in the bushes where no one will see you. Masturbation porn, same thing, y'all want to watch that, cool, just take it someplace else, please. I'm not talking about just talking about masturbation, that's fine, or masturbation porn, conversate away, just the actual experience itself. I don't need to be in the room while that's going on, that's all.

Not for 1955, apparently.

Jim Ed Brown was in The Browns.

Thundercat! Wow! Carl's been making some noise about Thundercat for a while now...older players keep open ears sometimes...the Flying Lotus locus is not completely foreign to "guys like us", if you know what I mean.

Wikipedia says that he served as Ayler's copyist and musical director. So, I wonder if somewhere exists the paper from all that. Might be an interesting, perhaps even instructive, look. He was also killed by a hit-and-run driver less than a year after Ayler was pulled from the river, so conspiracy theorists rejoice!

22 something gullah related?

All the best to Bob, but I am confused - is this music supposed to be about my private muse or about his personal history. I don't even know this man so why is he trying to put his personal history all up into my private muse? Or I am supposed to awaken with this condition and think it to be a natural outgrowth of living the life I've led. Not sure I'm trusting this guy GA, have you ran your own background check on him? Kindas sounds either governtment-y or sex-offendr-ish (there's no bathrobes in the promo packs, are there?), something wanting to get inside my head with something of his. errrrrrrr..... This whole private/personal merge thing with a total stranger....Yes, I am confused.

Who among us really knows about Call Cobbs?

We're back at the Crown & Harp on Sept 21, probably a little longer set but probably starting a little later. so all of you folks who couldn't make it out last time because of the time, resolve all ambiguity about this one. Ken was noble, Ken was good (Ken is always noble and good, at least that I've seen), but Ken, hey, I got it then, and I'll get it for this one. But if any of y'all don't read this forum and are up late on 9/21, come check us out. Introduce yourself as that guy who doesn't read organissimo, and we'll autograph your bar tab in invisible ink, or something equally appropriate. I will, anyway, I like trying to make friends.

Good vibes sent.

Ken Berry played for the White Sox, that's how I keep them apart. The dude had a lot more work than I'd imagined! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Jones_(actor) I think it's kinda weird that an actor would be thankful for a role with no swearing, but just as weird that it's it's an oddity when there isn't. I mean, I curse like a sailor in heat myself, but I can also conversate without it, and will, if/when. and when it comes to story telling, the keener the dialog, the more I appreciate the lack of easy choices. Not that cursing is always an easy choice, no, but sometimes there are options, ya' know? Sometimes there are options. And sometimes I dig it when options are exercised towards the less obvious ones. Either way, it seems like a gentlemanly thing to do, to thank the producer for something like that, not get all prissy about it, just say thanks, dude, I appreciate what you're doing here. Might well have just been a coincidence, but, hey, thanks anyway. Gentlemanly-ness is also an option exercised far too infrequently these days, I think. Along those lines, yeah, thanks to Joe Medjuck for a resume that is notable for being absent of any really easy-way-out rolling-in-their-own-cheapness movies. Gotta be a tough gig sometimes, but, yeah, thanks for not going for the okie-doke on this stuff.

Part of me sees tragedy in that, another part sees that as him winning at his own game, no matter the cost...you know how some folks are...tragedy factor inversely proportional to "true/inner intent" factor. I've heard that Max could be pretty demanding as well, but also pragmatic after running the changes...if a guy could work with Max but not Dolly/Jackie, I'm thinking that must have been some non-stop drama. Wow. Me, I love cats like this (and cats not like that as well)...survival on one's own terms is no easy feat, no matter how unpleasant it gets. Those people are/were tougher than I am, so...fullest props, if less than complete understanding.

I'll look at stuff like this and not give a damn about the movie itself, I'll just take in the character of the players...style = substance, and affordable at any cost the Disney way.