JSngry

I don't buy the notion that I, as an "in general" non-fan of opera who nevertheless is quite aware of it and it's overall essence, won't (a word that conveys an absoluteness of certainty) "get a fair bit of where Armstrong and Bechet in particular were coming from." That is ludicrous. You could say that if somebody did not know opera that they might not "get a fair bit of where Armstrong and Bechet in particular were coming from", sure, but even then, is it really necessary to understand everything about where anybody is coming from to feel/appreciate where they are now and/or what they are saying at this moment? In degree, yeah, probably, but if we're going to play the Province Of Understanding Entitlement game, then let's start with the basics - if you don't know what it means to be Black (or in Bechet's case, Creole) in turn-of-the-century New Orleans, then how much of any of this will (another word that conveys an absoluteness of certainty) you get? Now, where's that line, and who among us is standing in it? I will agree that I do not "get" that portion of Armstron/Bechet that presents operatic influences in the same way as somebody who has an affinity with opera. That's the old sympathy vs empathy trip, and I'll cop to that up front. But to say that I won't get it is to say that I don't get it at all, and that is simply not the case. Similarly, there are parts of Ornette's playing that I, by virtue of being a rural-gone-urban-Texan-social/musical-outsider, will "get" in a way that many of you all won't. But that doesn't mean that y'all don't get them at all, nor does it mean that the way that I get Ornette is more "complete" than the way y'all do. Any artist that can be brought down to one thing for all people is above all else a utilitarian product. Not that there's not a useful and pleasant place/need for that. But... I mean, my god, I totally understand the influence of opera on classic Sinatra's phrasing (and I totally dig classic Sinatra's phrasing) while still remaining a staunch non-fan of opera in general. According to the logic expressed, this should not be possible. What is possible is that I dig it - the results of the influence - for different reasons than the fact of the influence itself, and from there it follows that there is more to the source of the influence that one can or can not "respond to" than the mere mechanics/esthetics of said source. And the use of a word like "won't" seems to rule out this possibility. Oink oink, said the pig. Indeed, this whole thing seems to me to be predicated on a perhaps latent assumption that to know opera, really know it, is to love it, that there is an absolute "greatness" there that is only not "gotten" if one has either not explored deeply enough or else if one is too inferior/lazy/whatever to surrender one's soul to its Absolute Grandeur. To which I can only say that some dreams die harder than others, and that if this is indeed not the case, then one should perhaps be more considered in one's usage of words of absolutism such as "won't", and that the answer to the question "Baby, Baby, don't you need a man like me?" is not always going to eventually be yes, no matter how insistently and repeatedly it is asked .

...people will ask where Buddy Collette & Fred Katz are.

No one in Austin is excited about the rare chance to see the great Chico Hamilton? I would go myself except it is on a Wednesday night, 200 miles away. Same here. I'm very curious about that one.

No? You mean I have to be a "fan" to grasp the influence? Hmmmm.... It would help, probably. Probably not, since I "know" opera in the sense of knowing what it is/was, how/why it worked, etc. etc. etc., as well as the impact it had on any number of generations of any number of types of people. I know it just fine. I just don't, as a rule, like it. I watched that Pavarotti clip, and, yes, I heard the amazing vocal timbre & phrasing. And then it was over. I "got" it, I just didn't like it. Appreciated the hell out of it, sure. How could you have any feel for music and not appreciate it? But did it reach me? No. And oh well about that. I don't eat everything that's "good" for me, and I don't like all the "good music" the world has to offer. And... Big fucking deal at this stage of the game. I've had years of life experience and "formal training" to think about it, and when push comes to shove, there's a level of "Western Civilization" that is too "Western" and/or "civilized" for me to buy into without beng dishonest with myself about who I am and what makes me tick. And opera, as a rule, is on that level. BTW - I don't like musicals either, nor do I like cabaret. Like the a lot of the songs, though. Just not like that. Those are layers of American Western Civilization that do not have a runway in my psyche on which to land. Some very large & powerful crews have been contracted to build them, but they couldn't even clear the underbrush, much less level the land, build a village, and start the colonization. I do, however, deeply appreciate and enjoy some of the devices of all of them things. I also enjoy steak but not liver. I grasp the influence of Ronald Reagan quite well, but I'm not a fan. Should I be, in order to grasp it even better?

No? You mean I have to be a "fan" to grasp the influence? Hmmmm....

I know, and there have been moments along the way that have enticed. But on the whole...

Definitely an icon of sorts, RIP and all that, but as an also non-fan (of him and of opera in general), I gotta ask - was there ever a time when he wasn't loud & bombastic?

Ok, seek and ye shall find...DOOF! http://www.fatcity.co.uk/sales/pages/Music...spx?pageid=1481 I don't get Bobbi Humphrey as a reference though. This stuff is actually good.... Still, it's kinda weird, no? Sam Most, of all people, does a single for Bell in 1970, and then...what?

Ok, I knew about the origins of Arista, but never knew of a Sam Most side on Bell, Was this 45 extracted from a full album or was it just a one-off single deal?

The tongue must be deeply in cheek here, no? http://youtube.com/watch?v=hLhCPQy5AkQ

I mean, hey... http://youtube.com/watch?v=9aytBy-rqO0

Read the fine print on the label & it says that this is Arista in origin. I don't remember any Sam Most Arista sides. What gives? As always, thanks in advance.

I got sent home from high school more than once for having sideburns as little as 1/8" below my earlobe. That was stupid and so is this.

How would you compare it to Agartha?

Extensions Of A Man

Original vinyl LP record. My mom bought it back in the day & we're not even Catholic.

Ok, not really.

Ok, not really.

Ok, not really.

Ok, not really.

Don't know The Move that well, ut those early 70s Roy Wood albums have long been favorites of mine, especially Presenting Eddie The Falcons. I never can tell if Wood was being extrememly droll or if he really was that daft and thought he was being normal and/or serious, but the end result is the same either way. The shit makes me grin inside.

I've got some old Troggs 45s on Fontana, as well as that porno Alan Arkin/Jane Birkin thing, also on 45 and also on Fontana. Is that relevant to the discussion or should I issue an apology in advnace?

What about green vegetables?

And cheeky too!