JSngry

The original "VSOP" concept, remember, was part of a three-part concert at Newport-NY(?). One of those Three Faces Of Herbie Hancock type things, the 60s, then the Mwandishi band, then the Headhunter/beyond. Who set THAT up, I don't recall. George Wein do doubt had a hand at some level, but business factors would have entailed others at a more granular level. Herbie, I think, was is one of those "perpetually open" guys who will just do shit to be doing it. He's also got a good market sensibility. I'm sure that they all thought that it would be nice to take a break from their current pursuits and "go back", just to see what would happen. That it made money certainly incentivized the to keep going, but if you listen to the VSOP records in sequence, the keep getting further and further away from the retro concept. The last one is a VSOP record in name only, lol. Wayne...not sure where the "creaky" stuff is. He actually had a touring electric band in the Phantom Navigator/Etc era, and they were really good. some of it's on YouTube, but all the market noise during the time was directed elsewhere, so not a lot of "buzz" about it. and then he went back to doing studio works for a while before coming back out again with his acoustic quartet that stuck around for a while.

Tell you how un-clued into this period I was...I opened up the Clef Mosaic and started looking for Little Pony/Wardell. I had always just assumed that that was New Testament Basie, and as such was going to be in there. DOH!!!

80s and 90s Freddie, live dates in particular. The guy was just all-out all-in. Incredible trumpet playing that coincidentally is very strong from a content standpoint. As for "going back" from electric to acoustic, it's not as simple as that. It's about what the music itself was, the compositional elements and the approaches to playing it. That 60s Blue note sounds...they had done that, and in the cases of Herbie and Wayne specifically had pretty much done all with it that they could (or would) do. Asking them to do a retro thing like VSOP was weird, like asking Joyce to write Ulysses all over again, just change the names, I mean - why? How? I can tell you with absolute certainty, there are players who really "can't go home again", nor do I think they should be expected to. There are alos other players who never really leave home, even if they add on some wings to the old place. And that's cool too. My favorite VSOP record is that last one, where they actually did play more "fusion"-y material and approach. Five Stars, i think it's called. As for Hutch....different setting, but none of the really "fusion". "Crossover" in nature/intent, yes. but "fusion"???? Not as I understand it.

If it's Kenton (and there is a bass sax in there, but no mellophoniums), it would be Charlie Mariano?

All these people had moved on musically. It would be the difference between being in the moment then, and then going back now and trying to be in that moment all over again. They just weren't there any more. "Crowd pleasing stadium stance", such as it was, only came about because their newer music became popular to that extent. It certainly wasn't that they got popular because they had dumbed down their music (especially Wayne....). Herbie and tony, and even Freddie, had all moved on in different directions. Freddie would do some of the best playing of his life after he did (although you largely have to go to live dates to be convinced of that). Tony wanted to be a Rock star, really wanted that. And when he came back with his later bands, not a lot of what he played/wrote for those bands would have sounded right in the 1960s. They all moved on. The majority of jazz musicians don't. I would also disagree that Bobby Hutcherson "experimented with fusion as much as anyone"..."crossover" sure, lost of different settings (some pretty "commercial"). But actual fusion...about as close as he came to actual "fusion" was the Un Poco Loco album on Columbia. Or am I forgetting something? But Bobby Hutcherson never moved on, just because he was out in front from the beginning. In fact, there are people who would contend that he moved back just a bit after his NY period. The record is called "Preserved" which probably was meant to mean that they caught it on a record. But it also means, embalmed, mummified, something like that. so....

It does seem, though, that Sonny Payne was waiting in the wings, so to speak...and the Gene Ramey quote that Chris Albertson used certainly seems to indicate that there was at least some contingent of the band wanting to rid of Johnson. He also notes that Basie begged Ramey to stay, but that Ramey was firm in his decision. There's always factions in bands, even small ones, and the leader has to navigate them. Even in small groups. Zawinul talks about how him and Walter Booker were always advocating (and bitching about it after the gig) for even more open material against Nat's desire for more commercial stuff. So Cannonball seems to have split the difference. I love Stanley Dance, but I'd be blind if I didn't note that he also seemed to be moved by the desire to create and sustain narratives. And really, if this was a case of a faction in the band wanting to oust Johnson (and get Payne in?), well that's a family matter, not for the general public to hear about. And Johnson's story might well reflect the same spirit, especially decades later. Also...there was a faction of people (mostly musicians, but also fans) who really disliked Sonny Payne. I remember somebody, a musician (whose name I don't remember) being quaoted to the effect that Basie went all to hell when they threw out the Buster Harding charts and got rid of Gus Johnson. Other reviews were really scournful of Payne, one of them going so far as to lament that it's hard to believe that this new loud and tasteless drummer guy was related to one of the great swinging drummers of all time. Seems to have been a bit of a controversy, which is funny now, because Sonny Payne became the template for every Basie drummer to come.

Casually staying on this one for a few days. Actually a bit fascinating, hearing Al Foster playing his Miles style.

In the Clef Mosaic notes, Chris Albertson quotes Gene Ramey as quitting the band because there was a move afoot to oust Johnson, who was having some unspecified issues with unspecified band members and that Ramey wasn't going to be a part of that. So maybe the appendicitis was a good way to do what was going to be done anyway? Marshall Royal made "Don't get sick in the Basie band" a mini-theme in his autobiography! So that seals the deal that the relaunching of the big band was gestating in 1951 as well as being birthed the same year.

Does the Morgan book provide an account of how Gus Johnson got replaced by Sonny Payne? It appears there was some drama involved? I do know that reading contemporaneous press accounts that it was a highly controversial move. Sonny Payne was not at all universally loved at the time.

Thanks! 1951, yes. My bad on that one. So it does seem that Basie was already having eyes to relaunch the big band for at least a year before he actually did, and had was actually trying to get enough bookings to give it a go. Interesting about the Apollo gig and the purported Ed Sullivan gig. Seems that demand and supply were already in negotiations. Billy Eckstine finally brought it home, right?

Is it hard because it's unnecessary?

Recorded on Columbia by a Basie big band in 1950, when there was no such thing? Conventional wisdom has it that the NT band launched in 1952, but obviously Hefti was already engaged writing for the band. Hefti's Wiki page says something about Basie wanting to have a "stage band" that could do the Ed Sullivan show, but that is never mentioned in the conventional narratives, is it, that Basie was already getting a big band together for one-offs/projects as early as 1950? Or at least a book for one. Who was paying for all this 1950-51 activity to have a pump primed should a car pull up? Is there some solid documentation about all this so I can separate fact from mythology?

If they reseal, they do a damn good job of making it look untouched.

Gonna be more than a minute... More like Pete's Dead Now (Ain't Gonna Be No More Of That)

Jackie Flasper - Songs For Tomorrow's Breakfast

I like Jean Shepherd. Very funny guy. Jazz Shepherd, I don't know. Is he connected to Hal Crook in any way?

Baxie Biloxi - Headin' Down South!!! Had I known that this was a party record, I would have never brought it home.

Lockjaw Davis just don't give a damn!

Another great album cover on a record with Bill Perkins: never on vinyl(?) but don't let that stop you.

I can tell you from experience, that if you set up damn near any jazz artist station in Pandora and don't give any likes and then fall asleep for a few hours, you're going to wake up to Blue Note/Prestige/Riverside going and on and on. And on. And on. I am not exaggerating. Part of the reason why I switched to Spotify (with ads!!!! Just like radio!!!) I wanted to deep dive into New testament (and beyond) Basie, and they got pretty much all of it there (except for Have A Nice Day, but I got LP on that and don't recall caring for it at all, but who knows now...). Point just being, the kids today, they don't want to accrue a big bunch of shit if they don't have to. So, like this old fucker who doesn't wnat to do it either just to discover some stuff I don't know about, streaming is a great way to go. Effective and efficient. I still want some stuff, but now I can get it knowing in advance that I wnat it.

You know, if I wanted to encourage and/or develop an appetite and/or curiosity in a new listener who was wanting to immerse, I would just advise them to go to Panora and set up a Lee Morgan Radio and just let it play. Listen, take notes (mental or otherwise) and then get back to me over a sanwhich. Or coffee. Or whatever. Maybe you can do this in Pandora as well, but in Spotify, you can definitely get a variety of "Blue Note" playlists. Same thing there, turn them loose on the vast expanse and tell them to let you know if they need you and/or want you. Not unlike an acid trip. #psychedlicsally As for Big Bands...Turrnetine/Nelson Joyride, and Duke Pearson's second....Now Hear This was it? and of course, Thad/Mel, but those are not technically BN, except for that one, which is, relatively speaking my least favorite of the bunch. But streaming for newbies? Yeah, I think that's the way to go. They can hear in a few hours what people like me spent decades pursuing in hard copy form.

I recall my son playing F-Zero on the SNES. Did they use the same tracks when they ported it over?

Sacrilege in some circles, but I've always found Holdsworth to be very shreddy...but not in a bad way, that's just how he plays. For the time, al De Miola was the one who gave me the creeps with RTF and beyond. Pretty early in I stopped caring/listening, so maybe it sounds tame now.

F Zero was a video game, right?