JSngry

Yeah I got it. Big draw for me was John carissi. I think it's okay, but it only partially transcends its source material.

Definitely! Never entered my mind that there might be confusion on that regard...did Ms Bishop ever give reason for there to be?

I have that LP, and I don't recall it containing the now-legendary Freddie Hubbard "meltdown". Was it edited out, or what?

Ok, go ahead and conjure Satan, that's on you. I rebuke it forthwith and without reservation or reserve.

Is that calendar some sort of j-porn thing that I'm not sensitive to?

Why do you think I don't like him? I like lots of VH songs (first one that always comes to mind is "Panama", but a close second is the memory of hearing "You Really Got Me" for the first time on radio while mopping floors at Burger King one night). Always good memories. But it's poprockrockpop, and not particularly deep rock at that (did VH EVER wade into deeper waters, even on a side project?). Excellently played, even more excellently produced, a product to be proud of and enjoyed, absolutely. But not at all deep or otherwise worthy of serious (i.e. - ongoing, developing) thought. appreciation, yes. Thought? No. If it's there for you good, but, uh....have fun with that, then. It was hormonal ear-candy for hormone-sensitive peoples. I have been, and sometimes still am, that. The difference between now and then, though, is that I recognize it for what it is and allocate resources accordingly. People mourn the loss of their youth, well, big fucking deal. An adult should mourn the loss of nothing from their youth, they should only appreciate what they have in place of it. Now, if you don't have anything to replace it, that's not my problem. But I liked him just fine, still do. I can't tell you how hormonal that some of my congratulations were for him marrying Valerie B back in the day, hey, wow. And as far as him being an asshole, hell, most people are, even you and even me. He was a better guitar player than Helen Reddy, for sure. But was he that much more of an "artist"? Well, to a certain degree, sure. But only to a certain degree.

Well, at least he never claimed that tablature had to be invented because of him! Then again, hey, rock truth.

Glad to see a little rediscovery of Oliver.

Joe's last BFT put me on the trail of this delightfully natural music. Prices are all over the place, apparently, no idea why, but I found a good deal, and so can you!

go find some kid with a Real Book on their tablet, they can pull it up for you and show you the form. It's real, and it's repetitive. What it's not is a "song" form of cyclical redundancy of 4-bar units, it's a 10-bar form, with the cadence/resolution points being A7-Dm, V-i, in bars 2-3, 6-7, and 9-10 - where it's Am instated of A7, which is a neat trick, but still Dm is always the "landing point", and it's certainly "unusual" for a landing point to come in the 3rd, 7th, and 10th bar of a form, just as unusual to have a 10 bar from to begin with. At least it's normal in having the last bar of the form land on the home key. But we're accustomed to "home" coming on the even numbered bars in our songs. You can get deeper into the notion of the structure by looking at how it's designed to create a perhaps deceptive feel of creating a cyclical form that never really begins nor ends, but that's a result of end perception, not of initial construction. But it is a pretty nifty "slight of ear" in that regard. But like all "magic", it's just a construct. Hell, here it is: Where it gets "weird" on KOB is that they decided to play with the durations of the bars, compressing and expanding their durations. Good concept, wrong tune, in my opinion. But that chord sequence holds constant, and, thinkfully(?) everyby else plays it straight, and it's a LOT easier to follow when they do.

Did they get Oliver's original charts?

Completely off it, yeah!

I miss seeing David Crosby on Hollywood Squares, and wish I could have seen Eddie Van Halen on there too, him and his wife in the same square! Too late for that now. Kids, take a lesson - never squander an opportunity.

There's as many reasons as the are people having them, but i think it can largely sum up as - not everybody thinks that "popularity" is a good thing. And that's nowhere near as simple as it sounds, because - popular with who, and why, and what are you doing to either get or avoid it, it goes on. I can tell you though, in my life (and I started playing in pure/real/indigenous/whatever R&B bands when I was, like, 19), it was common (more like standard practice) for "white" people to dig the "black" music that crossed over onto their charts, FAR less common for them to hear what didn't...And if it got TOO unfamiliar, uh, they backed off. It got to be "too"....whatever. I thought I "knew" R&B, well, HELL no, I didn't have have a clue, not even a tenth of a clue, really. And hell, I KNEW where the stations were, but for me they were just stations on the radio, not THE station. That's just a function of how America worked/works, radio was not the cause, radio was a symptom, people who listen to popular music don't really want challenges, they want confirmation (and not everybody feels like confirming, ok? not like that) . I don't care who you are, that's what hits are - confirmations. As it pertains to "soul jazz" and other black musics relative to the white" critical and listening audience, that's a very real thing. Not necessarily malevolent in its existence, probably not fully malevolent in its applications, but just real. You can see it on this board, all the white folks who came to jazz from the rock music ot theier youth/young adulthood. Nothing wrong with that. but "soul jazz" and its offshoots is going to land on a totally different spot if you're hearing it straight out of Boston (the band) than if you were hearing, like, Brick or Sun or Quazar, or going back earlier, if you were coming form Jimmy Page as opposed to O.V. Wright. Look at it another way - EVERYBODY knows two Johnny Taylor songs, right? But Johnny Taylor had a helluva lot more hits than just two. Well, let me be true to my contrarian essences and point out that there really WAS a revolution going on, and when one is a revolutionary with the smell of victory somewhere in the air, one does not have time for anything other than pushing forward no matter whatever. So again, context matters, about everything. Everything.

Yep. Sonny Philips too. But Leon Spencer, definitely. I don't know of too many "jazz historians" who were really into R&B that much, especially once the Big Bangs of JB/Sly/Meters started to normalize, and turn into mainstream R&B/Pop.. Not saying that they should have, but you can't really speak knowingly about "soul jazz" without also having an appreciation and awareness of that music as well.

Oh, THAT Lee May, yeah, he was good to have on the team. Sorry, I was thinking about Lee Maye, whose years as an Astro were like Dick Allen's with the Phillies, only without any of the excellence.

Jimmy Smith is easy. Charles Earland, maybe not as easy, but still easy. Now, a show of hands - how y'all fixed on Leon Spencer records? as "R&B" evolved, so did "Soul Jazz".

the Oilers?

Cannonball got all kinds of shit from all kinds of people. Some of it was legit, some of it was bullshit. Bottom line - anybody who made this record was right enough for me: do keep in mind, though, that those essays are 50+ years old (or older)..."soul jazz meant something a bit different then, maybe, depends on who's doing the talking.

Well, that's respectable...nice way to marginalize the power. People of that mind still haven't really adjusted to the realities (not "political", but physical and metaphysical shifts of being) of a post-Malcolm mind and a post Cold Sweat space of movement. I have come to totally distrust Albert Murray. Where he was right about Basie/Jo Jones liberating the bodies and spirits of African-American societies, hey, the same thing happened with James Brown and the best he can do is put the man in the church instead of everywhere. Never mind what has happened post-hip-hop. You want "call and response", hell listen to this shit, live/samples/scratching, shit bounces like BOUNCES, it's just "black folk" doing that. If you miss that as the starting point, you lost from jump. Just go to a club (are there still clubs?), sit in the corner for a few hours, watch and learn how these lives work when "we're" not holding the camera. That is, if you can find anywhere where there's not a camera, and good luck on that.Where IS that place anymore?

Good luck on getting 21st Century realities to get back to your 20th Century notions.

I'd like to know what Albert Murray thought about James Brown.

This shit is crazy. Bach with a sustain pedal gets weird in a big hurry.