robertoart

This whole area of debate is a vexing one. Maybe I'm wrong or overestimating the Stevie Ray Vaughan thing. But it seemed that at some point someone flicked a switch and you just couldn;t find any major surviving bluesman having any musical visibility whatsoever unless it was in the company or spotlight of higher profile Rock or Blue/Rock stars. Buddy Guy was subsumed to a certain extant into this and so was John Lee Hooker. I remember going to see Buddy Guy around this time (after discovering his Vanguard albums from the late 60's early 70's ), after starting promisingly enough, the concert just did a u-turn for the rest of the night, while Buddy did a vaudeville act based around impersonations of famous guitarists. Apparently, live, he is still like this. The marketing seemed to overtake the art in Blues. I liked to think somewhere in the US, there were still mythical bars and clubs where something beautiful and fun was happening like Hound Dog Taylor. The closest I got to this, was seeing Bobby Rush on the Scorsese documentaries. Robert Cray was also someone I remember getting heavily promoted around the SRV time, and there was an album with Johnny Copeland and Albert Collins I think. Anyway I think you could argue, that the Rock players from the Blues side of the ledger had some influence on the Blues legends at least in terms of how these great artists chose to (or were encouraged too) present themselves on records for better or worse. At least in these later years.I do think the harder edge of the Texas based Blues Rock tradition, had some influence on the Blues - while probably less was the case with the influence (if any) of the Butterfield/Bloomfield Harvey Mandel scene. I suppose the real interest of your question though, is the more formative years of Rock n Roll and Blues, of which more interesting and fluid influences probably exist - if at least through the amount of musicians that possibly played in bands of both genres (and more). About Hound Dog Taylor, well, I think I remember you (MG) writing something about you most appreciating music that was a genuine representation of the social/cultural life of it's people (apologies if I have wrongly interpreted that). Well there could be no more authentic example of that than the Hound Dog Taylor band I think. Sadly there seems to be little Hound Dog footage surviving, but here is an idea of what the band must have been like 'on home ground'.

It could be comedy that doesn't announce itself as comedy. But I am glad to see what my Sennheiser signal looks like on a graph. I couldn't go the distance though.

Yes Ok. Is there a difference in this context between the terminology 'country' music and 'hillbilly' music. Most of the archival interviews I've read by Blues and R&B musicians often refer to these influences in reference to what they heard on radio. I wonder if in those days whether actual terms like Western Swing or Country music were active in Black musicians language. It also seems like a lot of the musicians with this influence come from Texas. You can also hear this in Herb Ellis too, on the jazz side.

Magic Sam and Earl Hooker, and Hound Dog too for that matter, all had country music influences too.. (+ Ike Turner) In the Earl Hooker biog (Danchin?) theres a description from Dick Shurman of a typical Hooker gig - late sixties - how it goes from R&B at the start of the night through to straight blues when the audience are 'ready'. He made tapes & some extended swinging guitar workouts are on a CD (can't remember title at the moment) - very nice jazzy renditions of Dust My Broom and others How would you define the country influences. I find it hard to hear that in Hound Dog Taylor at least. From what I know of Hound Dog Taylor's music , there was no difference to what the band played at first in the bars, to what they played to the larger audiences once their popularity grew. I also read that Hound Dog slighted his own talent a bit. I can definitely hear the Country or Hillbilly in Gatemouth Brown, but he was a bit of what would now be known as a roots music polymath. And I believe he attributed some of this to contact with Pee Wee Crayton, who also could play in that early Charlie Christian style a bit.

Breaks the ice at parties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK8-Gb8osOQ&feature=related

Regarding Rock music, I think Stevie Ray Vaughan had a big influence in the transition of the way record companies and Blues musicians presented the music. I actually think of Vaughan as a Rock musician. Even though he played Blues tunes, he was very much about merging Albert King and Jimi Hendrix. And he was part of Rock music mainstream, in the fact that it was David Bowie who introduced his playing to a mainstream Rock audience (when it was still possible to connect Blues Rock to Popular music tastes). Johnny Winter was similar in the late sixties/seventies. But certainly Buddy Guy's (and maybe even Albert Collins) presentation of his music on record and live - seemed to change after the emergence and popularity of Vaughan. Perhaps because the first wave of Blues into Rock had run its course by the end of the Seventies. So the connection between Psychedelic Rock and Blues - late 60's early Seventies - and the harder edged Texas Blues and Rock of the 60's and 70's ie Johnny Winter, was re-invogorated commercially by SRV. Initially though, in that first wave of post-60's Rock influence on Blues, Jimi Hendrix probably changed virtually every Blues player who could exploit any of Hendrix's style commercially as well. Perhaps Black Blues musicians who were conscious of Black audiences, fluidly moved between R&B and Soul, while those that wanted to reach mainstream Whiter audiences, incorporated the 'harder edge' Blues Rock influences - or if not totally, at least made LP's with that in mind - ie. Muddy/Johnny Winter, Freddie King/ Leon Russell or even earlier the Howlin Wolf Album, Electric Mud or Hooker and Heat. The times when Blues musicians incorporated other Black Urban influences like Soul, seem to be actual influences at the core of the music. Whereas when Blues musicians incorporated Rock music (back then anyway), it seems more about marketing and audience growth, and doesn't seem to be a change from within. The younger musicians, like Gary Clarke Jr., the Blues and Rock influences seem totally at one. here is something I was listening to the other day; in the words Lou Donaldson used to use (probably still does) the Syreeta one 'upsets' me.

How did you find out what was going to be released and when, back then. Did you have to rely on relationships with record store owners? And yes, Grant would have been great on CTI. Especially early. I read that because CTI didn't have the funds at first for the big productions, they recorded their initial signings in traditional settings, so we got Benson's Beyond The Blue Horizon and Stanley Turrentine's Sugar etc. Two of the great LP's of their careers.

Something interesting I heard in a recent Lonnie Smith interview. He says that immediately prior to forming the band with George Benson, Grant Green's manager Jimmy Boyd had arranged with Lonnie Smith to play on a Grant Green Blue Note session at Rudy Van Gelder's. Lonnie Smith says he got cold feet and didn't turn up (because he had only been playing for a year and didn't have the self-belief to play on a Grant Green date). Lonnie says Jimmy Boyd arranged the session again the next day, but he chickened out once more. So when would this have been? Wasn't the Benson/Smith/Cuber band formed in late '65 early '66? Means the session was either during Grant's time at Verve, or just after. Maybe it was actually a Verve session Lonnie was hired for. Or maybe later in '65-'66 and it was Blue Note. So we could have gotten a Blue Note or Verve Grant Green album from then, with Lonnie Smith on organ. Damn Mr Smith Wish you had turned up The interview is fantastic, but hard to link to. So I have paraphrased. He also talks about George Benson and he going to see Grant Green, and sitting in on his gig, just around the time they formed their own band. And Grant not letting Lonnie off the bandstand. Lonnie says from then on, Grant was always trying to get Lonnie to play gigs with him, so much so, that Jimmy Boyd had to ask Grant to stop coercing Lonnie, as he was jeopardising his relationship with George Benson. Apparently, Boyd told Grant, 'you've got your band with Larry Young and Candy Finch - leave young Lonnie alone' Lonnie Smith also says, that whenever he could not find or afford a guitar player for gigs, Grant Green would play for him - for free. Fascinating interview.

Could be your right. Very heavy vibe on this one. 1973. And Chuck Rainey. A good counterpoint to the Joe Simon. Found this interview while googling the song. Worth linking I think. Funny reading her talking up the Stones My link Look forward to getting this one. I think I have a couple of tracks on compilations. I have grown to appreciate Ronnie Foster more and more. Seems a lamentably overlooked musician these days.

And the recent documentary footage shows he's still got it. It's incredible alright.

**** this is awesome! Just sayin'.

Well that old thread is still speculating about the context for the Iron City session. Which now appears to be solved. Except for the John Patton/Larry Young mystery and the 'lost Verve Session tapes' It's much like Iron City, not Funk in the literal sense. The Verve Willow Weep For Me is quite majestic.

RU Serious? You haven't heard this? You can find lot's of first issues on Ebay. I think they all will have vangelder stamps. And they are usually cheap because the Blue Note collectors are not as mad about Verve. It is also my favourite GG cover photo. Sometimes I just take the Album out and look at the cover. Some of his best playing. There is another Cantaloupe Woman on here. On the liner notes they say 'Grant is digging into the juicy innards of the fruit'. You will dig it too. Who knows why he went to Verve? Creed Taylor chased him up maybe?

I find I say the word cool when I am being lazy and can't be bothered to speak. Or else find I use it to acknowledge what someone has said and move on or end the verbal exchange without appearing to be rude. I think I may have started noticing the word was back in vogue a few years ago, and I started using it again. Was the Fonz exclusively responsible for popularising its use in the late seventies. That's what I remember. BTW does anyone think The Big Bang Theory is really Happy Days for Gen Y. I mean the plot centres around 4 guys, with one Alpha male in each 4. Whereas The Fonz was cool, Sheldon is like the 'anti' Fonz. Richie is like Leonard. And then there are two other B-plot characters. Penny is the anomaly in this 'theory' though.

C'mon Amfeny

One can never have enough 'constant bluesiness'. Especially in the hands of harmonically aware players. Just listening recently to Houston Person and Ike Quebec play some ballads. Or am I missing your point.

I often read term 'playing the dozens' used when people talk about Jazz. Is this Wikipedia entry an accurate guide to its meaning and use; The Dozens is a game among two contestants, common in African American communities, where participants insult each other until one gives up or violence erupts. It is customary for the Dozens to be played in front of an audience of bystanders, who encourage the participants to reply with more egregious insults to heighten the tension and consequently, to be more interesting to watch. Among African Americans it is also known as "sounding", "joning", "woofing", "wolfing", "sigging", or "signifying"[1][2], while the insults themselves are known as "snaps".[3][4][5] The origin of the game is unclear, but it has roots in Africa: similar contests are held in Nigeria among the Igbo people, and in Ghana. Comments in the game focus on the opposite player's intelligence, appearance, competency, social status, financial situation, and disparaging remarks about the other player's family members—mothers in particular—are common. Commentary is often related to sexual issues, where the game is then referred to as the "Dirty Dozens".[6] According to sociologist Harry Lefever and journalist John Leland, the game is almost exclusive to African Americans; whites often fail to understand how to play the game and can take remarks in the Dozens seriously.[note 1] Both males and females participate, but the game is more commonly played among males of varying social status.[1] Several theories have been put forth to explain why the game was developed. One hypothesis from 1939 suggests that the game formed as a way for African Americans to express aggression in an oppressive society that severely punished such displays against whites. Another theory from 1962 highlights the game's focus on one's opponents mother is a reflection of the dominance of females in African American families and how young males may feel rejected by females and react accordingly. The importance of mothers in African and African American families is at the heart of the game: insulting someone else's mother is sure to inflame the passions of the other player. The Dozens is a contest of personal power: wit, self-control, verbal ability, mental acuity, and toughness.[6]

I had no idea who Bernie Brightman was, but your post made me laugh so much I could not resist a quick search. And I see he was responsible for 'Reefer Songs'. A classic LP in many a young persons jazz journey I suspect. And he never paid royalties - alledgedly BTW I wish Bob Porter would post here. I have really enjoyed his recollections on many re-issue liner notes he has written. I remember reading he was going to write a book, but I suppose it never eventuated. I keep meaning to check out his radio show over the net, but keep forgetting. I think I met Bob Porter in the mid '70s - maybe earlier. He hated the music I recorded (really hated) and was not an admirer of Von Freeman (he later bragged to me about all the edits he made to the Willis Jackson/Von Freeman date issued on Muse). In spite of this we became friends and probably ate/drank together around 3 times a year for quite a while. I even stayed in his basement for a night or two. Bob is a great guy who believes Roscoe, Lester, Braxton and more of my friends are a sign of the end of the world. Bob has a large, resonant voice as you might be able to tell from his radio shows. At one of these indie conventions he saw me across the hotel lobby and shouted "Nessa! After recording all the shit you put out, how could you make the record of the year!! The Warne Marsh is a Mother Fucker!!" Bob also wrote the notes for my Lucky Thompson release. I wish we lived closer together so we could have an occasional beer or two. Just listening to WBGO now. Doug Boyle's on. Talk about a gruff voice for radio! And Bob Porter's on later I might make a long distance request for some Frank Wright

He dropped the Alexander from his name because nobody would take his trumpet playing seriously. Kept asking him about the phone.

I had no idea who Bernie Brightman was, but your post made me laugh so much I could not resist a quick search. And I see he was responsible for 'Reefer Songs'. A classic LP in many a young persons jazz journey I suspect. And he never paid royalties - alledgedly BTW I wish Bob Porter would post here. I have really enjoyed his recollections on many re-issue liner notes he has written. I remember reading he was going to write a book, but I suppose it never eventuated. I keep meaning to check out his radio show over the net, but keep forgetting.

I like Sickert a lot - but some of his paintings are so dark, tone-wise, darker than anybody elses I've seen I think. I guess London was dark then... almost invisible art right there I know quite a few painters who really like Sickert's works. I do too. Yes they can be very dark alright. Did you know he was once suspected of being Jack The Ripper. I think this was bought up in the media recently. I remember reading The Horses Mouth when I was a teenager and later learning it was based on Stanley Spencer. It was a funny book to read as a young person, but very rewarding.

My link

Alert! MG is listening to avant-garde musicians: George Adams, Byard Lancaster, Yusef Yancey, Garrett List! Have you heard this yet MG? Hank Marr with a very young James Blood Ulmer and George Adams. It defines the word 'raw' . Apparently this band played the clubs in Germany. A very kind man named Arthur Shoulders made a needle drop of this LP for me over ten years ago. I promised to send him a fiver for his generous gesture, but never got around to it. Dear Mr Shoulders, if you read this board, please PM me and I will send you a tenner instead. No - I've wanted that one for YEARS! Playing vinyl this afto Stan Seymour - Everyone loves Bermuda - Edmar Pharoah Sanders - Black unity - Impulse (MCA Germany) Leon Spencer - Where I'm coming from (From whence I'm coming?) - Prestige now Earl Bostic - Jazz as I feel it - Earl Bostic - King Mine's stereo, with a blue label. Very heavy pressing. Groove Holmes & Joe Pass had much fun on this. Well, everyone did. MG Here is a link to a youtube upload of the Hank Marr Lp. Any idea who the drummer might be MG? Or anyone else.

Interesting thread. The National Gallery here in Melbourne collected lots and lots of post-Picasso British painting during the 20thC. So I got to see a lot of it first hand. From Sickert onwards. Often much of it was in storage (along with the massive amounts of Victorian era British art) so you could often discover works you never knew about, as they were trotted out over time and through the changes of taste and curators. We have a very early Hockney painting of a young married couple purchased from his first exhibition I believe. We also have lots of 'kitchen sink' era paintings too. So it was like a provincial British Modernist gallery in a way. Don't think they could afford the big name 'Americans' at the time. And the old 'mother country' allegiances die hard I suppose. Most of the ambitious Australian painters all nicked off to London during the post-war and swinging sixties era. Sutherland was a big influence on several key Australian painters out here. Russell Drysdale being the main one. I like Bromberg myself, but he might have been a bit earlier than the others I think. Franz Marc was the best Modernist horse painter. Enjoyed reading about Joash Woodrow too. Sad story. Glad his work is being appreciated. Fancy breaking ties with your friends over 'intellectual differences' I bet they were all a bunch of patronising tossers.