Big Beat Steve

Like said earlier, I won't be playing because I have about 90% of those Dials in what certainly is listenable enough fidelity for me (yes, I know this won't convince ANY of the "upgrading fraternity" around here ), but yet this is an interesting project. What baffles me in this debate, though, is how everybody was full of praise for those newly remastered Armstrong Hot FIve reissues that according to the general judgment of the results brought out nuances and details never heard before, and apparently without any detriment to speak of in other areas, whereas these Dial masters (which are 20-25 years younger after all) really seem to be very much of a mixed blessing. So how "rotten" (comparatively speaking) IS the source material after all? The way Jazzbo describes the foreground benefits and the background drawbacks as well as one outweighing the other (but just outweighing it in the sense of a tradeoff between those parts that are better than before outweighing those that are worse than before but not as a matter of whatever change there is being ALL for the better) this really sounds like not such a clear-cut sky-high improvement after all. Could this a) be a case of modern-day remastering techniques still reaching their limits if in your attempt of improving what you can improve you also bring out undesirable substandard portions of the recorded sound that you cannot separate from what you intend to improve and make audible? and b) is this why (in laymen's terms) older remasterings often ended in muffled sounds because in the remastering process of the day they cut off the unwanted sections, losing wanted (but unseparable) sections at the same time and thus narrowing down the range? Now you bring out the wanted parts but cannot suppress the unwanted parts - 2 steps forward, 1 step back ... c) Could it be that Mosaic by all means wanted to do this but now finds the going was far rougher than anticipated and now needs to come forward with whatever explanations they can, realizing that by their overall fidelity and restoration standards this may not be a top-tier result?

There must be another recent discussion on this very topic around here. As for the machine situation, it should be remembered that that article linked above of course is US-specific. I understand there are companies both here in Germany and in the Czech Republic (catering to the demand here in Central/Western Europe) that are firmly entrenched in the vinyl pressing business and to the best of my knowledge their machinery equipment is not made up of historic relics only.

Thanks for your comments and explanations! Do I get you right, that fade-in and fade-out refers to 7 to 10 years BEFORE and AFTER the 1945-80 period, and not that only the 1953-55 to 1970-73 period will be covered in real depth? IMHO as a reader you cannot grasp the early period of post-1945 development of French jazz if you aren't aware (or being made aware) of what happened there during the occupation and immediately before that. So I will be looking forward to this book being one that (more or less) picks up in the depth of its coverage where the books by Régnier and Legrand left off. As for "NOSS", obviously I would not expect an English-language book aimed at the corresponding target audience (even with a highly specialized subject like this) to be generally aware of the contents of Tournès' book (ah, those non-English languages, that uncharted territory ... ) but I certainly will above all be looking forward to your book filling all those gaps that his book left open. While I, for example, find the (period) critics' stance on jazz often almost as interesting as jazz as played and recorded by the musicians, OTOH all that rambling on in Tournès' book about the structure of French radio, for example, and why and where and how jazz could get a foot into the door or not (or other - pardon - trivia) really is disproportionate when you want to paint the overall picture. So .. no, those "denser sections that linger on critical issues" sound interesting (BTW, without elaborating too much myself, despite all his skewed persepctive and "moldy fig" one-sidedness, Panassié DID rightfully point a finger every now and then at a few blind spots that other critics and media had when it came to evaluate jazz across the ENTIRE spectrum beyond the intellectual aspirations of jazz during those years. So .... realistically asking as a customer .... when do you expect the paperback version to be out?

Very interesting! I seem to remember having read a preannouncement of this (on Amazon?) when I recently ordered the Fremeaux box set of the Ferret brothers' recordings. May I rattle off a few questions hoping to get an answer "straight from the horse's mouth"? 1) What will the "post-war" focus be, i.e. how far does "post-war" go and is there a period that where there is a particular focus on? Or is the coverage spread evenly? (I for one, for example, find that French jazz (particularly modern jazz) up to, say, 1960, is often given short shrift in publications once you go beyond the typical St. German des Prés and existentialism settings). 2) I've read the reviews that were linked and am wondering ... from the perspective of a reader interested in the music and its finer details but also the setting that the music flourished in (but still concentrating on the music), what is the balance between the music and societal, sociological, political and other aspects, i.e. where is the "scholarly" focus? Example: I found "New Orleans sur Seine" by Ludovic Tournès very interesting but honestly, that in-depth coverage of the HCF, the schism between Panassié and Delaunay, the structure of radio covering jazz, tour promoters and whatnot really crowded out the MUSIC and the MUSICIANS to a very large extent, concentrating a bit too heavily on the organisational framework that jazz was presented to the public in. Interesting but far from the whole (or a balanced) picture and the subtitle of the book certainly is misleading. Not that I would mind a scholarly approach and reflections on society (though I have found a few "scholarly" US books on jazz and the swing era a bit tedious to read), it just is a matter of getting an idea of what to expect. "Jazz et société sous l'Occupation" by Gérard Regnier, for example, really was a fascinating read from start to end, though the author certainly did NOT concentrate on only rattling off all the musicians that there were (more in-depth coverage of the many artists from that era would be welcome anyway) but really managed to make that era come to life for us latter generations. And "Charles Delaunay et le jazz en France dans les années 30 et 40" by Anne Legrand is the perfect complementary book IMO, BTW. Hope you get the gist of what I am trying to find out ... - Finally, the paperback will be identical in contents, right? Not abridged or so? Thanks beforehand for any input you may want to share. Good luck and I will keep an eye on this!

It is my alley too but MY alley really is already built up by about 90% so I am not going along. But I am curious too, of course ... Mosaic has set high standards so this (and the fact that the EXACT nature of the source material used seems to remain "in a mist" ) may explain some hesitations voiced here.

Seems like you really left no stone unturned?

A hint at closer cultural ties that used to exist? Congrats anyway!

What's up with this non-availability through the easier accessible worldwide channels? Have Uptown changed their distribution setup and gone all in-house? Or is this just a temporary situation? Anybody have any idea? Thanx beforehand ...

While I wouldn't have expected anything "exceptional" I certainly would not have minded taking it off your hands either.

Too bad ... That record wouldn't even fetch extra (or even top) money in cllasic car colectors's circls who are all keen on automobilia and collectabilia relating to their favorite car marques. Take an original vinyl from the 50s and 60s where a VW Beetle, an English sports car (or other cars that have obvious "cult" status or at least a hardcore collector following) feature prominently on the cover and you might well sell these LPs for relatively good money in car collector circles though the music might be ho-hum ... Just for their attractive and collectible artwork ... Rolls owners/collectors don't usually fall into that category, though ...

That Dalida LP album title is so ..... eerie ...and tragic (considering that she eventually committed suicide). She was BIG over here in Europe, so maybe this record contained European recordings reissued for the US market?

Yes, now that you mention it .. wasn't Zappa on BIZARRE, a Verve subsidiary?

It might be interesting to see what other unlikely items there were in the Verve catalog if you look closer. Maybe they had their share of oddball releases in the 60s too? Bert Dahlander and Toni Harper (to me at least) aren't that unexpected (but then I knew about the Dahlander LP for a long time) but cocktail piano or Spike Jones? I wonder what hand Norman Granz had in selecting THESE?? At least as far as I am with the recent Verve story book they don't quite fit into the narrative..

It does seem somedays like almost anything was thrown onto vinyl back then (almost like the Youtube of its day). I'd probably listen to Skal though. Say whatever you want about latter-day Toni Harper and never mind Spike Jones or cocktail piano, but don't give NILS-BERTIL DAHLANDER short shrift. His "Skal" album was quite a valid jazz album in its own context of European expatriates working in the US (feat. Counce, Howard Roberts and Feldman, BTW) - and rated 3 1/2 stars by Down Beat, FWIW. The cliché-laden cover art and album title more speak volumes of the immature, INANE brains of the A&R men and marketing smartasses of the AMERICAN label that issued the LP. Not an isolated case, though.

Ernie Heckscher and Verve sure looks like an exceedingly unlikely pairing. Looks more like one of those "Music to Groom your Mustache to" etc.background music platter series that the major labels did in the 50s. As far as I can see at a relatively quick glance only the Toni Harper cover made it into the "Verve - The Sound of America" book. Too bad for Bert Dahlander (and Rex Middleton too).

Ha, sounds very much like the FINCH BANDWAGON I used to listen to on AFN on Sundays here in my early collecting years in the second half of the 70s. How much (or how often) Jack Teagarden, Lawson-Haggart, "The World's Greatest Jazz Band" etc. and other "middle-ground" bands and artists do you need? Sure, he exposed me to Big T and Lawson-Haggart first, but even to a youngster interested in jazz from that period this "play it safe" programming can become repetitive pretty soon if you keep your ears open and soak in everything you hear everywhere. I tend to agree with your DJ commentaries, though providing complete personnel for a small combo might be feasible but not for a big band program, and a 25-minute track on the radio might be VERY hard to fit into ANY format. Though it CAN be rewarding ... I remember a Dexter Gordon feature radio show I caught in the early 80s, and it had a lengthy killer jam session tune from the war years also including Duke Ellington and Ben Webster (and a CRAZY Stuff Smith). Somehow that jam tune never left the back of my mind but it took me well over 10 years to get the recording until I finally came across a copy of the Ben Webster "Ben and the Boys" LP (Jazz Archives JA-35) where the tunes and the line-up read like this might be IT at last - and it was ... a lengthy version of "Honeysuckle Rose" that starts in the middle of the proceedings! @jazztrain: Very interesting post summing up both sides as well as some pitfalls - thanks!

Talking about records you wouldn't imediately think of as being on Verve, how about BERT DAHLANDER - SKAL (MGV 8253) ? e.g. as seen here: http://diskunion.net/jazz/ct/detail/JZC20121221-100 Coming to think of it and while googling that release, I came across an older topic on that subject and a (totally forgotten) post of mine from 6 years ago on this very forum so I might as well quote myself to elaborate on the "obscure ones at Verve": "What about BERT DAHLANDER's "SKAL" LP (Nils-Bertil Dahlander, in fact, or "Bert Dale" for the linguistically lesser talented Yanks - BTW, anybody know of any reissue sources for this?), or what about that TONI HARPER LP (been a long time since she'd been a child singing star) or how about that obscurity by REX MIDDLETON'S Hi-Fi's (nice LP, BTW)? (And there were many more jazz-tinged vocal albums on Verve who did not make it to everlasting fame - probably about as many as on Bethlehem) Or how about LYLE RITZ on ukulele? And you even got SPIKE JONES on Verve. And who TF was that ERNIE HECKSCHER orchestra?"

I used to listen to a lot of jazz in my early years (post-1975 and onwards quite a bit into the 80s), both programs on more historical jazz styles, new releases by new and older artists, and even lots of collectors' programs diving deep into 78s. I learnt about a lot of musicians, recordings and styles (up to noting down whatever tunes and artists struck my fancy in notebooks, some of them coming in useful for later purchases or searches, though I almost all of the time failed to note down such key info as the EXACT recording dates (beyond the year) or key personnel. I also recorded a lot onto cassette tape and still play some of them in my cars every now and then (wobbly or not ... ). But in more recent times or now? IF ONLY there were many jazz radio programs of substance left, at least there are none to speak of on the FM radio stations that can be easily listened to here (I sometimes tune in to web radio, but not that often). Some late-night token programs that have remained seem to be more or less a medium of boosting upcoming or recently-completed festivals, even if the lineup is a full crossover into pop. Cannot recall having heard (or heard of) any regular FM radio programs such as the Night Life program (by Ghost) that I listen to via web radio from time to time with great interest. They USED to exist but that was a long time ago ... And what there still is that tries to present jazz that way on public radio today seems to me (on those relatively few occasions that I listened in) to be geared strictly to jazz newbies. One of the few remaining outlets where something for the actual jazz niche audiences might exist here are local "alternative" stations that you can either listen to in a very local FM area or via web radio. Interesting stuff there but since this is VERY "alternative" radio those who do the programs often clearly are more enthusiasts than radio pros. The programming is intriguing and broadens up horizons but the hosts are often not up to snuff, with some of them being just plain clueless. They love the music but don't have the background or knowledge to get the info about the music and musicians across with substance and, above all, authority and credibility. They could take a lesson from Ghost of Miles (sorry, David, admittedly I have not tuned in to your program yet).

Gilles has stood the test of the years well - he hasn't changed much since I was there in 2000/2001 (when I was there the last time in 2007 somebody else subbed for him that day). Always nice talking to him indeed - we got into talking too on thos efew occasions I was at his shop, and somehow I still regret I just could not take the time off to drop in a nearby bistro when, after having left his shop maybe half an hour before but still making the rounds at other shops in the same corner, I passed in fornt of that bistro and he saw me across the window and motioned to come on in where he was at a table with a friend for lunch. Unfortunately I could not because I had a VERY tight schedule of places (yes, mainly shops! ) to visit in Paris during that brief stay there (but it certainly would have been a very nice chat ...).

Following this topic, the impression I get here as an outsider looking in (what I have by Bill Evans are sideman dates) raises a few questions: Could it be that overall (given his stature and reputation, in particular) BE's output as a leader was uncommonly erratic? Was it a question of being THAT beset by his personal demons?

Sample it along with Bill Crow's recollections of that Goodman tour to Moscow, then ... (Available somewhere online ...)

The entire article is pointless. Comparing today's vinyl sales with those of the heyday of vinyl is totally irrelevant. Whoever praises the fact that now the 1-million mark is exceeded can and should only refer to the fact that vinyl has been proclaimed as being dead for years and YET the sales figures are on the up. Although only in a very minor way, and vinyl will certainly never become anythign like the #1 medium for selling music again - ever. It will remain a niche product and nothing more, but considering that it is supposed to be dead it is remarkably alive after all. So the whole premise of that article only shows the author has not grasped the essence of the vinyl debate as it is today.

Wouldn't that rather be a grapefruit??

Like I thought ...