Big Beat Steve

You'll never have it all, no matter what you want and how much you want it. However, these sets might also be seen as an attempt of an answer to those who say "Before we even CONSIDER doing something for the collectors who want to listen to what we once also had in our sales catalogs way back we first need to make MORE BIG money from our big-selling items for the masses another ZILLION times!" But that's just me. And no, I wouldn't understand either why anybody would go for those cheapo ripoff sets if decent and "normally" priced and well-produced reissues are around (and not just some flash in the pan, difficult to order Japanese reissue that goes OOP after 4 weeks), but I do understand those who'd go for the Gigi Gryce set, for example (I am tempted myself) of the series shown by the thread starter because AFAIK that set has one or two LPs the CD reissues of which (if available at all) go for insane prices per copy which are way higher than what that entire box set costs. Blame it on the profiteers ...

As a European, I have to say THANKS to GA Russell and Allen Lowe for putting some sense into this overly (overtly?) US-centric morality debate (which was obvious was going to start on topic like THIS) and to King Ubu for making the fine line between copying recently remastered and reissued music as a ripoff and rather making unavailable P.D. music available again (but putting your own production efforts into it). As for all the other morality points raised - sorry I won't buy into that all the way, as long as the music we are talking about is rightfully in the P.D. in THOSE countries where the reissue is produced (and any music which was out by early 1962 will remain in P.D. in Europe, the new European law does NOT apply retroactively - it just came in time to prevent the Beatles from going P.D.). And if these reissues are unlaweful for sale in the US is of no concern to European buyers. Besides, judging by the fine print on the CDs in question, quite a few of those oh so cherished Japanese reissues are also "Not licensed for Sale outside Japan", yet many, many U.S. collectors are all over them and tout them as the next best thing to Manna from heaven. Not really honest all the way either ... Like King Ubu said: Fresh Sound does not fare too badly, particularly since they reissue many items nobody else has ever bothere about (i.e they really fill gaps in what once was there and has been OOP for a LONG time, though I don't like many of their 2 LP on 1 CD combinations of one easily available item and one obscure item). But OTOH I cannot feel that Proper, for example, always really is THAT "proper" if U.S. morality/legality yardsticks were applied throughout. How come their "theme" box sets often rely that heavily and obviously on the same material that had only recently been out on other reissues on other labels? And this even though lots of other material waiting to be reissued at all (that would have fit the same theme) still is out there? Looks like "an easy way out" programming approach (maybe use a decent/already remastered sounding source to start with and then do some (re-)remastering/polishing up to be able to say it was all remastered by you??) and another "holier than thou" case if you tout them too loudly. Overall my stance on this is more a case of being realistic about it all: See if you can find a fairly priced (and ACCESSIBLE!) and well-produced reissue first. (One reason I never would buy any of those ripoff re-reissue clones of the Uptown releases, for ex.) But if you can't, check if you find the sonic quality, the presentation and the compilation acceptable for the price (if only as a platter to take along for the CD player in your car, which was how I handled it when I bought this or that budget P.D. box set for 2 or 3 items I REALLY wanted though I already had the other 4 or 5). It's all a tradeoff betwen quality and price. And as long as the music is rightfully in the P.D. in the country where you buy it, what's the point of worrying about royalties? Sure it would be fine if you could find and support a label where it would be PROVEN that the artists would still be getting royalties for music that has entered the P.D. but would these artists really still be getting royalties today if the P.D. music were "officially" reissued on a major label? I doubt it. Particularly in ALL those cases where it is a known historical fact that the original artists were cheated out of their royalties back when the recordings were made. To this day major labels can be pretty smartassed retreating to the fine print of contracts signed decades ago (no matter how doubtful they are by today's standards). Cf. Arthur Crudup's (eventually unsuccessful) battle with RCA in his final years. And what remains, then? Greasing the palms of the multinational conglomerates who hold the "rights" to that P.D. music now? Aw well ...

Maybe somebody snapped up those 2.99 copies and is trying to make a fast buck (sorry - fast quid ) now? At 2.99 I would have picked up a copy too ... Was this "I Blew It My Way", and were they around at that price at chains like "Books Etc." ?

Can't get below almost 30 euros on amazon.de (Amazon UK doesn't helo much at 17.99 GBP + 4.70 + 0.50 per lb. GBP shipping costs) but am tempted anyway ...

Yes I am pretty sure this is not the case in Japan. I have repeatedly felt rather amazed about how abysmal mastery of the English language there is even among many people actively dealing with the (mostly) English-speaking world on a regular basis, including in the music field (and I am not thinking of item descriptions on eBay only ). HOWEVER, it must be remembered that Asiatic languages have a structure that is quite different from most European (Indogerman) languages, and the differences are not only limited to writing, of course. I wouldn't want to have to learn Japanese or some other Asiatic language either and am far from sure I'd fare that much better within a reasonable time frame.

Thanks everybody ... But since I work in the translating field I'd better be sure to get my stuff right (self-respect, you know ... ) As for what languages I do speak, apart from German (obviously) and English, well, I do manage French (well enough to be present actively in French-language forums too, etc., and to get by in France without any major problems but there ARE hiccups here and there). To a somewhat lesser extent, I did learn Spanish in my University days but am badly rusted up (due to non-practice), and also am self-taught in Swedish to the extent that I can read and write it pretty well (one Swede actually mistook what I wrote for the product of some Swede living abroad and being somewhat rusted up in his own language), BUT so far I have very little knowledge of the pronounciation in speaking the language the way it is spoken today. So essentially it is reading and writing only ... Anyway ... you native English speakers are probably up against one huge stumbling block in case you'd actually want to learn some other language out there "on site". Way back I attended a Spanish language class during one of my University holidays in Spain, and the classes were fairly international, including students from the US and the UK. One American eventually complained that he just did not get to speaking Spanish nearly as much as he wanted to because all those he met wherever he went were all out to try their English on him. Like he put it: "English is the hardest language to avoid anywhere!" Probably true, and not so good, of course, if you do want to learn a foreign language among native speakers.

My initial reaction was "Did Bill Wyman ever play sax??"

Didn't the time limit of the 45 rpm record have just a much of an ONGOING impact up to recent times? Or what about radio and the "ideal" maximum playing time of a tune/song for airplay?

I am somewhat underwhelmed by what I've heard from that series (not all of them). I have some (picked up when found very cheaply) and have sold off some again (which is a very, very rare occurrence for me ) and those I've kept have remained here mostly for completeness sake. It is interesting hearing some of these artists in their later years (some of whom had been neglected unfairly by the time Johnny Otis stepped in so the series as such was a very commendable effort) but being quite familiar with the original recordings, I just cannot really warm up to those "funked-up" updated versions. (But I freely admit I am a bit of a "period purist" when it comes to those styles of music.) In a way it is the musical equivalent of those on-stage pictures from the early 70s showing greying,balding, ageing R&B heroes from the early 50s wearing that funny, funky, loud VERY 70s-ish street garb in an attempt to "stay with it". But while they looked really sharp back in the early 50s that 70s garb hung on them just didn't do it IMHO (no, the music on those albums is better than that but I think you get the idea ).

I'm quite pleased with my two 3-LP box sets (including the sound quality) of these recordings on French RCA too.

Yes, excellent deal! :tup

I distinctly remember we had an earlier thread here about this Brazilian record hoarder who moves his record crates around with a fork lift truck in his warehouse. And the ensuing posts also were more or less like they are here now.

"Cat On A Hot Tin Roof" (Tennessee WIlliams) with Taylor and Newman. I read the book after having seen the movie and was surprised how the movie really came to life again when reading the book. Quite unlike anything experienced before. Also, I felt "Last Exit to Brooklyn" fell into the same category, impact-wise, though reading the book due to force of circumstances was a protracted affair for me so I am not sure how the comparison would have turned out if I had managed to read the book in one go at the time. And re-reading the book now would not be the same as it's been very long since I saw that film.

Which seems to explain why many ebay sellers flatly refuse to ship through Media Mail anymore at all. This "you get you you pay for" thing doesn't seem to be understood by all customers.

Scanning on arrival is understood and is all very well but if a shipment gets scanned (which is then indicated in the shipping status update) but then sits there for a week or so before it (apparently) is scanned somewhere else before even making any noticeable progres toward its destination I am wondering what USPS is doing there. Zigzagging across several non-coastal states for about 8 to 10 days (after delivery/pickup/initial scanning in the state of departure) before making it to a coast at all and then - lo and behold - making the overseas trek in not much time at all makes you wonder, and you do indeed ask yourself if maybe the parcel has been fogotten somewhere in Last Gap, Kentucky, or Sawdust Falls, Oklahoma (I am paraphrasing these places from an old Edgar Bergen show I remember ) ...

Same experience here. I've had rather mixed experiences with what USPS does in processing their shipments through various sorting centers during the past 2 years when my purchases from the US have increased considerably (not likely to continue, though, given the current exchange rates ): Most sellers (usually eb..) I bought from provided tracking info and there I've seen it happen more than once that shipments apparently zigzagged from one sorting center to another all across the US (only remotely along a straight line to either coast or, maybe, Florida), sit in one place (or two) in between for a week and then finally get going to the next center or some overseas destination at last. Rather unpredictable because at other times thigs went fairly rapidly. All this at shipping stages when the items had long left the sellers' premises. As for DG, Ive only bought from them once ever so far, and order processing, shipping costs, pre-shipment info, shipping info and tracking data as well as overall shipping times were stellar. And this for a small order from a first-time customer who'd not be that likely to place huge orders every other day.

Same here. If that reissue mateiralizes I will certainly pick up vols. 2 to 4 there.

No doubt Terry Gibbs felt comfortable with Buddy deFranco and played accordingly but Terry Gibbs IMHO was(is?) a superior vibes jazzman in his own right all the time. One of my favorites on that instrument.

Don't tell me there is a "Heino" category in your collection of "Exotica" records, TTK! That late-night party clearout stunt sounds familiar ...

Strange that Heino's name should come up on this forum with its decided U.S. slant. Yes he was BIG as a singer of German pseudo-folk music "schlager" pop for decades (often with decidedly old-fashioned lyrics) but his presence certainly was not limited to the Alpine region(s). Heino always was Heino and a category by himself. I can't say I really hated his records leaning on "German folk music" clichés - we rather tended to dismiss him as laughable in our age group, and as time went by it became clear he apealed mostly to an older audience, i.e. not just the younger fans he had in the early 70s that had grown older along with him but an audience that was decidedly older than that. It was pretty amazing when he all of a sudden started to go all "rock" and appear in leather attire and all that some time ago. Can't say many from my generation took this all too seriously - more a bit like that turnaround Tom Jones did in the late 90s when he suddenly sounded like a whitish James Brown. Though many younger ones apparently found this "new" Heino entertaining enough to go wild at his concerts, including at the no. 1 heavy metal festival at Wacken in Northern Germany here. A most unlikely venue for somebody like him. Never mind that interview linked above cannot be viewed here; I saw in on TV the other day and he probably said more or less the same things there. No matter if you like his current act or not , find it convincing or consider it just like a clever marketing plot - you've got to hand it to him: He does what he feels like doing, doesn't give a d.mn about what the music establishment says or whether he is taken seriously by everybody out there, knowing that he doesn't have to prove a d.mn thing anymore, and he clearly relishes the fact that, by his own statement, he has reduced the avarage age of his audience by 40 years. So in some way what he does now seems to be more sincere (by pop music standards ) than all those artificial "Pop Idol" casting show clones.

I came across this site years ago and haven't looked at it for ages but apparently the layout (prehistoric by website standards) hasn't changed much. The contents are instructive and really a very nice effort by the compilers and will definitely be useful to complete other sources (books etc. and flesh out the picture of the more obscure bands). What I do regret, though, is that the depth of the contents varies enormously and in rather an erratic manner (including some rather imbalanced bios). Both back then and now I've only glanced at various random entries but even there I am a bit puzzled. Just barely glimpsing at the "European bands" section, the entry on the Harry Arnold band is just abysmal! After all this band is VERY well documented in many places and therefore easily researchable, and U.S. compilers certainly ought to be aware of the connection between this band and the "Jazztone Mystery Band", for example, to rate some mentioning. And to readers over here the distinction between "British dance bands" on the one hand and "European dance bands" on the other certainly is mildly amusing. "Splendid isolation" rearing its head again? I may be wrong but I am under the impression the compilers of this site went all out in their attempts at gathering information on pre-swing era bands but sometimes were less zealous with later bands. A bit like Brian Rust in his works? And what also baffles me a little is that the contents are relatively imbalanced when it comes to white AND black bands (what?? No Red Calhoun??). If you include even the sloshiest of white sweet bands you might do well to dig just as deeply into black territory bands, I think. In short, if you use that site as a starting point for further explorations you will be fine.

The Bird is the word?

My jazz book buying has slowed down a bit in recent months but during the past few years there have been numerous moments when I was exactly under the same impression. Following a recent thread about local jazz history books here, my most recent purchase was "The Boston Jazz Chronicles - Faces, Places, and Nightlife 1937-1962" by Richard Vacca. Though one of the main target groups of this book clearly are Bostonians eager to learn about the past of their town in general, as long as real niche subjects such as this can still get published times cannot be THAT bad overall.

I love how you present this as fact, when the reality is that it's one of the sillier things that been said in this thread. I must admit that even I - an inveterate vinyl fan - would definitely not subscribe to this "statement".

As for lip service, I remember having heard more than one story (from a secondhand record dealer with a huge selection of jazz) about how he had received an order from a client to compile him a selection of BLUE NOTE vinyls to go with his hip, trendy, designer/loft apartment he had only recently had refurbished and furnished. Blue Notes displayed like coffee table books for the impressionable visitors of those lofts to marvel at? Combine this with the attraction that "jazz" still seems to hold to some who tend to label under "jazz" quite a variety of music not classifiable anywhere else and you have lots of lip service indeed. "Jazz" still seems to have some mileage left as a label associated with a specific image, but if you try to pin down WHAT kind of jazz (or muisc marketed as jazz) we are ACTUALLY talking about in any given instance, this seems to be getting harder and harder and might well be a reason why those you refer to above tend to shy away.