Big Beat Steve

I must admit, though, that I find the "Elvis Sings Thelonious Monk" idea way more exciting. Considering what can probably be done with AI today, can't someone geeky enough out there get to work and cobble some soundalike sound samples of this up? This should REALLY be fun!

Back to "great finds made" ... Here's a great music find not in the grooves but between the pages … The other day I met up with a high school classmate from our “Class of 79” who had told me she had started selling off the jazz record collection of her deceased father and wondered if I was interested. Purchases from that collection will be on the back burner for me for the time being, but in her dad’s jazz book corner the below item caught my eye … So I offered her 50 Euros outright for this book, which she was pleased to accept (in fact she had intimated earlier that she did not expect to make much money from disposing of her father’s books – jazz books included). As a bonus, a free copy of the “Eddie Condon Treasury of Jazz” (1st edition of 1956) came my way too. The Bird book is in NM condition (no scuffing to speak of, no splits of the box, no loose pages - which I understand can happen with this book), just some very minor fading of the box spine. I’ve now placed an order with a specialist shop for a premium cardboard archiving box of the right size to hold the book and maintain it in its current condition on my bookshelf for the rest of my days. Needless to say, I was (and am) pleased with this find – even if the vinyl part of my inspection of that collection should come to nought.

Which basically means that commercially produced and released music records are out of the game. None of these are "unique" (and even limited pressing runs usually are way more numerous than "limited" runs of authorized/official prints of works of art). Royalties were/are paid (hopefully) on the pressings of NEW records (discs) and secondhand (re)sales are outside any royalty arrangements. For good reason IMO.

Basically I agree with you almost all the way, mainly because this is a can of worms where sooner or later others might try to sneak their "art" into these laws too and nobody knows where to draw a line that will STAND. Yet I think some of your examples are a bit far-fetched or off-target, such as destruction (on purpose or not) or loss. Because - no sale, no royalties due. It's as simple as that. And if an object remains unsold but is passed on through the generations (whichever way this occurs) then it's no royalty-inducing (recorded) sale either. As for rare or one-off classic cars - fair point, but is this ever enforceable on a wider level? Not nearly all of these are linked to any single designer who would qualify as an artist who would be entitled to royalties in the sense of the EU Directive, for example. But getting back to the topic of this thread, I still fail to see how this could ever be invoked for any of the collectible records we are talking about. Even a pressing run of only 500 or 700 makes any of these highly "collectible" LPs mass products by comparison. A high-$$$ sale would relate to only one copy of a far larger number of copies of the "original" but not to THE "original" work of art, and these copies of the orignal pressing run all are the same and do not nearly meet the criteria of the "limited productions or signed works" outlined in the directive. "Signed works" (of art) typically would refer, for example, to printings of some drawing or picture specifically produced by or on behalf of the artist in a limited run identified as, for example, the x-th copy of a run of y copies (as in "5/50" next to the artist's signature on the object, for example). No record signed individually by an artist for the record owner at some later date would even remotely be covered by this. If it was about, say, one-off test pessings or acetates or metal masters of a (later) regular release, this might be different, but would such test pressings or acetates meet the "visual art" criteria? The only case where conclusions about whether records could ever be covered IMO would occur if collectible bibliophile books (either first printings or limited runs identified specifically as the "x-th copy of a total of y numbered copies" would somehow end up being covered under this Directive. Would my numbered copy of the "Kenton Era" 4-LP box set on Capitol all of a sudden become eligible for royalties to either the Kenton Estate or the (uncredited) designer of the cover and booklet if I were to sell it? (Highly unlikely, given the condition of my copy of that set, but you get the idea )

Indeed it is! Beyond all legal terms and convolutedness, the below link may also help in clarifying the EU Directive in a more down-to-earth way: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=LEGISSUM%3Al26049

Thanks for the info. Amazing that this aspect did not get mentioned here (at least I cannot recall any single instance) when sales of works of art received media coverage. I think I found a link to the European law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32001L0084 Not easy to see offhand how this could be made to apply to sound recordings, though. Not least of all because even the pressing runs of jazz LPs make these "mass goods" compared to the works of art covered by the directive.

Not specifically. But - quote: "it's not like artworks in which -- and this is a fairly recent development -- estates or artists can make claims on a percentage of sales via auction houses." To me this reads like there must have been a stipulation or ruling somewhere that opens up this course of action, isn't it?

So where DID the court ruling occur that Clifford_Thornton alluded to? 🤨

To refresh my impressions, I listened to my "Cool Struttin'" CD (transfers by RonMcMaster) this evening again for the first time in years. Nice enough, and I would neither fault it as harshly as some reviewers nor see reason to elevate it on a pedestal for adulation (at least in my status as someone who enjoys listening to hard bop when I'm in the mood but who is no diehard fanatic of the style who spends hours and hours comparing and dissecting every solo). Overall a comment from the 3-star review of this LP in "Orkester Journalen" sums it up fairly well IMO: "If there were ten LPs of this caliber with loosely planned and organized but well-played blowing sessions like this then they could be recommended any time. But nowadays it seems like there are a thousand of them, so critics invariably will be forced to nitpick..." (and the reviewer then goes on to single out a few weaknesses).

@clifford thornton: That's what baffled me too. Personally, I would lean much more towards 5000s and fairly early 1500s if I had the money and willingness to shell out for BN originals. So in this case the "market" prices MUST be about the music ... @Kevin Bresnahan: FWIW, about "Cool Struttin'". Just saw that the review by Down Beat (by Don Gold) was just as indifferent (not for exactly the same reasons but still ...) as the one by ESTRAD: 2 1/2 stars ... So is it (also) about the cover after all? (Just like Verves - not so rarely for no sensible reason at all - tend to go up significantly in price if they have a DSM cover) Or maybe one of those cases of "must have if you want to be In with the In Crowd"? @mjazzg: I agree with your assessment of how the "collectible" scene and market work. regardless of whether we like it or not, that's the way things go. But like I said - it's regrettable that much later pressings then tend to go up and up too just "because it's on Blue Note". Not all that long ago Liberty pressings used to be relatively affordable even over here, but now it seems that to many sellers they must be the (almost) next best thing to an original.

Which IMO goes to show again that some collecting fetichism is clearly beyond comprehension or sanity. Particularly considering how often all of these top sellers (and most others) have been reissued (usually as well-done facsimile reissues which even preserve and convey the visual experience of the period cover artwork). So what remains? An ear, an address - and is (and the underlying feeling that someone had held this very record in his sweaty fingers at a late-hours get-together in, say, 1958? ) this really worth that much extra money all of the time, except to those who have money to burn? (Or treat the music strictly as monetary investment) Of course it is very nice if you happen upon an early or original pressing and can get it "for a song" (or almost) from someone who does not know his wares, but beyond that?? Regrettable that in the wake of all this even much later (facsimile) reissues have soared (relatively speaking) in price too. FWIW, and talking about "browsing" written matter, here's a review of #4 - Cool Struttin' - from the October, 1958, issue of ESTRAD (Sweden) that I happened to (re-)read again a couple of weeks ago (with some mild amazement): "As usual, when Art Farmer is present on a record, he fully and totally steals the show from all others in the band, in this case Jackie McLean (as), Sonny Clark (p), Paul Chambers (b) and Phililly Joe Jones (dr). He consistently keeps advancing, that Farmer guy, and it is pure joy to engage in the deep musicality of his - which in a highly pleasant way contrasts with that of McLean. As usually is the case, the latter plays disgustingly badly. Talk as much as you want about "deperateness", "hate", "feeling" or whatever else the current situation is in his special case, but don't tell me he is playing music if he cannot even hear himself if he blows wrong or not. What's wrong with this record in general is that the tracks just are too long. It goes without saying that the ensemble sections on this record are played sloppily. This seems to be the rule with this type of records. Yet the LP is worth listening to, first of all for Farmer's sake, secondly for Clark's and the rhythm section's contributions. If there was a way of filtering out McLean, there would not have been much negative to say about this record." 😁 Rating: The ESTRAD grading would correspond to "not quite 3 stars" by the Down Beat rating. Heresy? Maybe, but probably more a case of "different strokes" and of unabashed outspokenness, particularly colored by the "reception" of the music at the time it was all new. And BTW, in fairness it ought to be said that the author of this review, Carl-Eric Lindgren, was one of the rare cases of a writer and critic (with a fair number of books, articles, radio productions, etc. to his credit) who for a time during his professional life also had been an active jazz musician (his tenor saxophone is on several Swedish small-group records of 1950 to 1952). Just sayin' ...

Agreed about your assessment of the contents of the Keynote box set. The Keynotes have long been a favorite here, and it is true they contribute to highlighting how the "condensed" and "concentrated" statements made by the artists within the 78 rpm playing time limits do have their special appeal. Some of the artists did indeed fall by the wayside reissue-wise (as it happens so often with labels from that era), but overall there were quite a lot of reissues in the LP era by Mercury and (in Europe) on the Fontana label throughout the 60s and 70s. Very welcome when found one by one ... but it did not keep me from springing for that 21-LP box set when that occasion presented itself. (Though I also had acquired the CD box set by Fresh Sound when this hit the market a couple of years earlier. )

Became aware of him through various stories from the U.S. of the 50s - and also from some posts here that mentioned him. Like others, I had figured he was long gone. Much to my amazement, I found the below 10" LP at one of the periodic 1-EUR-per-record clearout sale days at a local record shop a couple of years ago (apparently an item left behind by an American during a visit or stay here): Some its contents have not worn that well to today's ears (even if you take the "a piece of its time" aspect into account) - but it now has its place in the "assorted oddities and odds'n'ends" corner of my vinyl collection.

And here I was wondering why, after reading your post, a seach on the www did not yield any bio by Chris Albertson on Billie Holiday ...

This sounds very interesting. I am tempted ...

This thread is taking on psychedelic overtones ... 😄 But getting a bit more back to the topic on hand: First of all, the careers of MANY musicians cannot be separated from their off-stage lives (and I am NOT even referring specifically to drug addiction and everything that this brings with it). So obtaining knowledge and an understanding of the "times and life" (with a fairly big accent on the TIMES!!) of a musician and the style of music he (or, yes, she) performed in really is a key to understanding the essence of the music (his music) too. Anything short of that IMO misses the road to understanding (and taking the reader along) the person's biography and musical accomplishments. And no, pea-counting musicological analyses geared at advanced music practitioners or musicologists do not make up for this at all. Which is where the Don Byas bio IMO is a mixed bag, though the book overall is good and definitely worth reading. As Knauer has hinted at in his review, musical analyses are slim (and yes, they COULD be done so that a layman and non-musician understands them too or at least gets a close enough impression of the contents and what to expect from any given session - it has been proven countless times before). But in general, the author's approach to the subject at times is an odd one. Apart from a few errors in the presentation of persons, times and places (which can happen but are avoidable - sloppy proofreading, maybe?), what baffled me is how the author over and over again seems to have made every effort to derail the reader's immersion into the narrative of the text, i.e. into the life and career of Don Byas. What is the point of using soooo many quotes and citations (and therefore footnotes) for facts and events that are established, undisputable facts and common knowledge and do not need any quotes or citations at all - ever - to prove to ANYONE that the facts are as the author says? (Though, maybe, to a professor who is to pass judgment on a Ph.D. thesis submitted to him ... But could this ever have been the purpose of THIS book? ) It would require a separate post to list a handful of blatant examples to underline my quibbles, but yes - this did bug me. Because this book by no yardstick whatsoever could ever have been aimed at the total layman in the history of jazz. And scholarly self-navel gazing at showing to the reader how the author has diligently and painstakingly worked his way through so many reference sources cannot have been the point either? Above all because enough quotes from and references to specialist sources remain anyway that definitely do merit their footnotes.

Thanks! From the samples I've listened to now, I tend to agree (though Ol' Man Mose ain't bad - and would be danceable). Gogi Grant also seems to have a more interesting voice for that kind of material (at least to these ears ). Of course Johnny Mandel as the leader of the backing orchestra is in a totally different league and he and the likes of him would almost be a case of "buying unheard-unseen" - at that price anyway . Though in both cases I'd really like to be able to do WITHOUT those saccharine background strings on certain tracks ...

The passing of Connie Francis' reminds me of an oddity in her discography: A question to those with esoteric (or should I say "wide-ranging"? ) enough tastes to be able to reply to the following: Is anyone among the forumists familiar with this CD by Connie? https://www.discogs.com/de/release/2521147-Connie-Francis-Connie-Francis-In-New-York Any opinions on what the music would be like? (I.e. jazz vocalist-wise, not that I have undue expectations on out-and-out hipness, but some adequate dose of swing throughout would be appreciated.) Some time last year I saw this CD in the "1 EUR" sale bins at my favorite local brick-and-mortar store. However, having already picked several other "finds" from those crates that day, being unfamiliar with the leader name of the backing orchestra, and unsure abut how "jazzy" her singing is on these tracks after all, I let it sit there and haven't checked that corner of the bins since. Did I make a mistake (though ... at 1 EUR you cannot really go wrong)? Or is this nothing to write home about even in the "pop jazz" field of that era?

Yes, like these. 👍

Judging from my (mostly) German-pressing black-and-white-cover Black Lion LPs (predating the CD-only reissues, of course), DA Music (Deutsche Austrophon) already was on board when Alan Bates produced reissues for Black Lion. Including those from George Wein's Storyville label of the 50s. So later on (in the CD era) DA Music above all had a "corporate identity" of their own (i.e. those black-and-white covers) that additional takeovers apparently had to fit in with. Personally, apart from those ill-fitting 70s/80s photographs combined with music from the 50s (or even before), I don't find these covers that horrible. Yes, they are fairly nondescript but there have been lots worse in the reissue field, including by the majors/corporates. And which smaller reissue label would have kept the original artwork throughout anyway if they had sourced their music from multiple different original labels? Disregarding exceptions to the rule such as Fresh Sound, can you imagine one and the same reissue label (such as Black Lion here) reissuing on the one hand (for example) Storyville material inside the original cover artwork with their classic Burt Goldblatt photographs and on the other those "brain-sectioned" semi-naive artist head drawings on the Fontana covers (such as in the case of the Ted Curson LP above)? And whatever other labels' original artwork in between ... Not likely to happen - understandably so IMO. Years and decades after the original releases they wanted their records to be seen as "Black Lions" in the shops, not a mess of various replica repros of long-defunct original labels. For better or worse for the collectors ...

If found cheaply, the RGJ public domain box set I listed in my earlier post should be perfect for you to get a fully playable copy of that disc, then. It includes both LPs.

A bit OT, because because I cannot add more about the Polydor connection of Freedom ... But as for the black-and-white (predominantly black) Black Lion covers that you mention, they were very typical of Black Lion LPs, and these very often came on reissues of music not just a few years old, but decades-old, sometimes dating back to the 78 rpm era. In fact, Black Lion has always seemed like a reissue label to me (maybe my tastes dictated where I came across Black Lion LPs). Earlier Black Lions (released in the 70s and distributed by Intercord here, by Audiofidelity in the USA and by RCA (!) in France) had white covers and differently-styled artwork (reissuing music from Eddie Laguna's label and from the SwingTime label, for example). The typical black covers must have come along in the 80s (typically with LP catalog numbers in the 60000s). Those black ones reissued a lot from the Storyville label of the 50s (Ruby Braff, Zoot Sims/Bob Brookmeyer, Lee Konitz, Jackie and Roy, a.o.), but also some extremely early Miles Davis. Not sure what you mean with "inferior-looking" covers, but to me the main snag with these was that they almost always used MODERN (very recent) photographs of the artists, which was extremely out of tune with the musical contents inside.

Polydor was EVERYWHERE. It was THE #1 record label in Germany from 1945 until some time in the 60s or 70s. Up to 1953 with a red label, then with the typical orange-colored label, later (from the 60s onwards) with a red label again. They released virtually any style of non-classical music over here, and (from what I have seen and/or have in my collection) were present in the UK, France and Sweden too (plus certainly other countries too that I am not too familiar with). Even Australia! German Polydor released jazz LPs from the 50s onwards. A Polydor catalog from August, 1954, lists a handful of jazz items, listed specifically as "Records for Export". I have some of them - German pressings but English liner notes. But no doubt these "export" records were sold in Germany just as well. Though the affiliations and links with other countries and labels are hard to pin down and would certainly be a subject for record researchers. My copy of "Midnight in Munich" (45504 LPH) is a German pressing (English liner notes, cover printing date 09/55 according to the samll print) but I also have a copy of the same record with German liner notes and a different cover that is on Brunswick (86016 LPB) and has a cover printing date of 06/53. OTOH, my copy of "Jazz Made in Germany" (45508 LPH) is an AUSTRALIAN pressing ("Distributed by Philips Electrical Industries Pty. Ltd."). Same with, for example, the Kurt Edelhagen LP "Come On And Hear" (46001 LPHM): This catalog number is both on the German pressing (English liner notes) and the Australian pressing. Similarly for pop (R'n'R-ish) and semi-jazz records I have seen (and bought) on French Polydor. In some countries Polydor also released jazz records that were not just licensing deals but productions of their own, e.g. in Sweden (Bertil Löfdahl quintet a.o.). In later years Polydor seems to have struck licensing deals in all directions too: One of my Oscar Peterson LPs from the "Exclusively For My Friends" series (on MPS) is a UK pressing on Polydor (with MPS in the small print and the red Polydor label on the vinyl). And depending on where and when you bought your records over here, you were just as likely to get the 40s jazz reissues on the Don Schlitten-produced Onyx Label not as a US Onyx pressing but on either German or UK Polydor (red Polydor label)! These are just some I have and recall, but this shows that you were and are likely to bump into the Polydor label almost everywhere. So ... researchers, have a go! General info on the label history also is on Wikipedia.

I learnt the pitfalls of these (oh so sticky) on-cover stickers the hard way in my early collecting days c.1977 - on the "Pres & Teddy" LP reissue on Verve. It had a diamond-shaped "Verve's Collectors Classics" sticker on the front of the cover that I tried to remove, but to no avail. Some glue stuck stubbornly, some paper remnants too. In short, the mess stood out like a sore thumb (and I had not heard of the hairdryer or oil removal trick yet). So, desperate for the visual impact, I decided to cover the mess up by cutting a similarly shaped diamond sticker from self-adhesive sheeting of an inconspicuoous color. Better than having to look at the mess each time ... Many years later I managed to remove everything after all (don't recall if by hairdryer or oil or ...) with only a few inconspicuoous dings and nicks remaining. At any rate, the same diamond Verve sticker is still on the cover of my copy of "Pres and Sweets". I sometimes keep the sales blurb stickers from the shrink wrap or the cover itself, but not always. It depends if they add a "period" touch or not. The other day I relegated a Jimmie Lunceford LP to my fleamarket vinyl crate but hesitated for a moment because it still has a fairly large UK "Recommended price" tag from the old pre-decimal currency system (priced at "19/11") on the front cover but found it would not remove easily so I did let it go. What I systematically salvage, however, are the record shop self-adhesive labels they used to stick the open side of the inner sleeves shut before selling so no buyer would be able to return the record AFTER playing it. Don't know if this practice was current in the US, but over here it existed well into the 70s, and I've retrieved several (though of course they are always split in the middle) that remind me of long-gone and nostalgically remembered record shops.

Too bad one didn't know such an interview was in the works. This would have been the perfect occasion to prod him for replies to a few questions that came up when reading the book. (Had meant to post a few impressions here but got sidetracked over and over again ...)