Big Beat Steve

AMEN TO THAT! Elder Don Clementine speaketh righteous words!! :tup

Down Beat reviewed this album like this in 1957: An interesting excursion into the long-line theme development of Brock. His playing is functional and rhythmic, although somewhat florid on ballads such as Willow. Among his most effective devices is the repetition of a riff-like figure, as on Etude, which adds to his drive. On Four Brothers, he captures the feel of four separate entities united rhythmically. Blues, despite the title, is melodic and moving. Caperton and Hanson** back admirably, with Caperton particularly good in solo spots. Overall rating: 3 1/2 stars **Brooks Caperton, bass, and Rick Hanson, drums BTW, there is no need for the second apostrophe (Top's) on the cover at all. In this play on words Savoy simply meant to say he was "tops".

My reply was more aimed at Chewy's reaction that I understood to mean that if Blue Note artists and recordings had crept up on labels like Crown the curiosity value alone would have made them immensely desirable. You know how it is ... great music cropping up on obscure labels, and collectors moaning today "If only he had been given decent recording and pressing facilities... what could he have achieved ... etc. etc."

No so sure. Is Jackie McLean's one shot on an R&B-oriented label (Jubilee - his "Fat Jazz" LP) more than a date that is considered "O.K., good but not overly sensational" by jazz collectors? I cannot see that this relative "obscurity" of a "famed Blue Note artist" gives it extra collector value. Anyway, I agree with your post, MG. The Biharis had found their niche and no doubt their Kent releases and United reissues (which got me hooked onto Modern/RPM R&B in the late 70s too) allowed the label to carry on for a relatively long time.

Good heavens, don't touch on that! Thank goodness the Modern masters were bought by a collector label that knew what they were doing and had the diehard collectors in mind and not by some big company white-collar exec dimwits who'd reissue the big "name artist" sellers over and over again but let the rest gather dust in the basement. I'd dread the thought of seeing the umpteenth B.B. King reissue of his Modern masters but missing all those rarities, especially in the R&B and Jump Blues field. The sad part of it is, though, that as those records are largely in the public domain now it is inevitable that even a collector label like Ace will be ripped off by P.D. labels (even labels touted on this very site as such great achievements and benefits to the collectors) hopping on the bandwagon and cashing in on previously compiled stuff. Hope this won't slow down Ace's activities too much.

Like I said: ACE Records rule! Though this Downhome stuff rather atypical of the Modern label releases.

Yes - the MODERN/RRM label issued a lot of important and timeless R&B music (and some other styles such as jazz and even some Country as well) and are a key label of the 50s but if you want to discuss the label beyond the music you will soon find the Biharis were about as liked and appreciated as Herman Lubinsky of Savoy. In short, I am sure many, many artists felt very much exploited by them - down to the way they usurped writer's credits on most of the original material the R&B artists wrote. All the Josea, Taub and Ling names you find in songwriters credits are cover-ups for the Bihari brothers and the share of royalties they took for themselves. To collectors the label must be a nightmare, especially the CROWN reissues. Just have a look at the way they rehashed previously issued music on their budget LP's, slapping new fake titles to the tracks and thus confusing record collectors forever. Or not even giving proper credits at all, as on those Jazz compilations (e.g. "Jazz Surprise"). I think the only serious source for the timeless music are the reissues that the ACE label from the UK has been doing for a very, very long time. I think they bought the rights to all the masters outright so for once some sensible reissue programming from the Modern/RPM vaults is occurring there (right down to excellent liner notes).

Too bad ... another great one from the Golden era of jazz gone. R.I.P.

A FULL tracklist somewhere? These group credits sound very familiar.

Yes, a very handy reference listing of one of the key jazz labels. So it took 21 LP's to release all this in one collection? (cf. the Japanese Keynote box) Somehow I had figured there was more music, though I probably underestimated the number of alternates.

We'll see about that when the book is finally for sale on the bookshelves, I guess... BTW, when the debate about this book was going on here at full speed late last summer I inquired at my local #1 stockist of the full Taschen range and the (usually fairly knowledgeable) staff had NOT heard about ANY announcement of such a book at all nor did the complete Taschen catalog they let me take home list anything. I'm just as much looking forward to publication of this book but am having doubts about the outcome. AFAIK these protracted doings are not that typical of Taschen policy.

Am listening to that Xanadu LP right now. It includes sessions of 17 May, 14 November, 21 November and 1 December 1944. The "Thanks For The Memory" session is the 1 Dec. 1944 session. But this is not a Coleman Hawkins session at all but rather an Esquire award winners session (listed as by "Leonard Feather's All Stars" by Jepsen ansd Bruyninckx). Bruyninckx does not list any extra tracks from that session beyond the 4 on the LP. Are you sure those extra tracks are from that session (or one of those 4 sessions) at all? It probably would help immensely and clear up things if you could list those extra tracks not included on the LP.

ANY Dodo is fine, particularly his Dial and Atomic masters and transcriptions reissued on the Spotlite and Raretone LPs in the 80s. Ghost, does the Uptown release you mention include anything not previously issued/reissued elsewhere? Or would I have to buy the CD for the booklet alone?

Lou Levy is ony of my all-time favorite Modern jazz pianists, both as an accompanist and with his own solo recordings from his heyday in the 50s. A lot of obvious recommendations have been made above but one has only been mentioned in passing - his "Solo Scene" LP on RCA, and two so far have been bypassed unless I overlooked something: Both "Lou Levy Plays Baby Grand Jazz" on Jubilee 1101 (1959) and the "Lou Levy Trio" on Nocturne (1954, issued later as a Fresh Sound LP and as part of the "Complete Nocturne Recordings Vol. 1" 3-CD set by Fresh Sound) are well worth a listen. BTW, re- "the Andorran thieves", that Nocturne CD set was made with the full blessing and support of Harry Babasin himself so evidently no theft going on there AT ALL!!! My own RCA/Fresh Sound reissued of "Jazz In Four Colors" is spinning right now, and I find the sound rather crisp and clear. Different pressings, maybe? (The small print says something about being reissued by RCA of Spain so the consent of RCA seems to have been obtained - who would risk a major lawsuit by making false claims about the involovement of one of the majors of the industry?) And for those who have complaints about that "Most Musical Fella" reissue there always is the "all-legal" French RCA reissue in the "Jazz Line" series (if you do not mind the nondescript "updated" cover). If it had not been for the stupid, lazy, indiferent, couldn't care-less attitude of the U.S. label owners all through the 80s (and then some) no Fresh Sound would have been needed anyway. But that's not the topic here.

An eighth ALWAYS being an eighth and a triplet ALWAYs being a triplet in JAZZ? Who was it again who said that the specificities of jazz (= the SWING element in jazz?) made it so very hard to notate jazz and capture it in a meaningful manner in transcriptions? Sounds like that sax man you mentioned did not pay OP the biggest compliment when he made this statement about eighths always being eighths with him. Now just a few other thoughts before somebody "does the needful": What's wrong with discussiong not only likes but also dislikes? Don't you need both to come up with the FULL picture? And isn't this part of any useful discussion? Or else we'd just be "claqueurs" applauding each other's opinions. What for? And if somebody sees fit to dismiss some artist's entire oeuvre because it just "doesn't do it for him" - so be it. Nobody is forced to agree, nobody is even forced to follow debates like this at all. And finally, a word on "being forced to agree". I've heard that remark abefore bout "the inner circle" of forumists dictating tastes in musical matters and making newbies and other posters feel uneasy and unwelcome if they dare to state a differing opinion. Having been around here only for less than 1 1/2 years and being a (relatively) occasional poster only I still consider myself some sort of newbie but so far I haven't seen anything that looked like that "inner circle" forcing their opinions on others and frightening newbies away. I do see that in certain matters those "old hands" are more experienced than I am (my 32 years of record collecting notwithstanding) but do I have to agree with their opinions for all that? OK, so far I've only been at odds with only one of that "inner circle" (and sort of called his bluff in another post on another forum where he also was/is present) but I still take the liberty of making my own statements if I feel like it - just like everybody else ought to be able to do too. After all, aren't we all adults with minds of our own? We can look to others (i.e. more experienced ones) for inspiration and information but do we let them tell us what we are suposed to listen to? In short, take it easy, speak your mind(s), defend your opinions if you have to and don't get frightened away THAT easily! :D

Good point. And quite true indeed of how some of the more technically accomplished jazzmen were/are viewed in Germany (especially when playing a "classical instrument") where classical music and the longing for "respectability" has tended to interfere with jazz for much too long (cf. those "Third Stream" doings of way back and the hullaballoo about the MJQ in its heyday). But though I wouldn't say OP was overrated and not very original I can see the point his critics have been making on that RIP thread - "all virtuosity and what else?" What baffles me in that OP RIP thread (to the extent I've read it) is another thing, however: The obits mention how OP was impressed by Art Tatum and his proficiency and virtuosity. But haven't exactly the same complaints been made about Art Tatum time and again in past decades, too, i.e. that he was too much of a virtuoso, all pianistic but not enough of a hard-swinging jazzman? Are these complaints still being made about Art Tatum today? Could it be that maybe the time for a universal appraisal of the jazzman Oscar Peterson hasn't come yet? Or were the detractors who complained about "too much pianistic virtuosity and not enough jazz-like swing" all wrong in the case of Tatum but right in the case of Peterson?

Speaking of Lucky Millinder reissues, I assume the Classics CD's contain only (or mostly) the commercially issued studio recordings. With a romping band like Millinder's, it's a clear extra treat catching it on live/non-commercial recordings so if you come across the following LP's in secondhand bins at a good price you could do worse than grab these: - Lucky Millinder & His Orchestra 1941-43 - Alamac QSR 2425 (broadcasts, probably from the Savoy Ballroom) - Lucky Millinder & His Orchestra Featuring Sistes Rosetta Tharpe 1943-44 - Kaydee 6 (same contents also on Bandstand BS 7134) (Jubilee broadcasts and transcriptions) - Lucky Millinder & HOs Orchestra 1942 - Hindsight HSR 233 (transcriptions, actually some of them from 1945, duplicates some of the Kaydee/Bandstand contents) No idea if much of this has been reissued since on CD (don't think so). Enjoy!

Here's another one who's picked up all the vinyl featuring the Lucky Millinder band that he has been able to get. :D This is one band that really stands out in the swing/R&B scene of the 40s with some seriously jumping music! And I agree with Chuck Nessa - if you are into Lucky, check out his roots with the Mills Blue Rhythm Band too! But I feel the "Ram-Bunk-Shush" material from the 50s (I have 16 tracks of it on an Official LP and assume this doubles most of the Charly CD) is not quite on the level of his 40s recordings. Nice enough but lacking a bit in originality and punch here and there; as if Lucky was increasingly playing it safe. But if the price is right and you are in a completist mood ... grab it anyway!

Talking about the evil character of Serge Chaloff mentioned above, have a look at this pic and wonder how innocent and charming an "evil" guy can look. http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/I?gott...856sf=01211:@@@

I do. Always on the lookout for obscurities (outside the trodden big-name paths) of jazz of the 40s and 50s, I bought it a couple of years ago when "Savoy Jazz" Japanese CD reissues were available rather cheaply at Zweitausendeins. Stylewise, the "Brubeck connection" may be correct - for better or worse, meaning that some who are into a much more precussive approach to modern jazz piano of that era might blame him for sounding too cocktail-ish at times. Not really my point of view, but then again I've always had a soft spot for piano trios from that era, and this disc makes for nice after-hours piano jazz, much like the recordings by Paul Smith, Barbara Carroll, and others.

I first came across Lawrence Lucie's name in the late 70s when I noticed the ads for his guitar classes in DOWN BEAT (my favorite reading matter on longer train journeys so I occasionally bought a copy at the newsstands). At that time that name did not mean anything to me and it wasn't until quite some time later that I became aware of him in the line-up of many 30s black name bands. A full 100 years old ... amazing! Many happy returns (and he certainly did not look like 70 years old back then in those DB ads!).

The noticeable distortion in the recording quality (if I go by the Downbeat review it's aparently not a fault of my Fresh Sound reissue pressing) is annoying and I can understand the reviewers failing the record for this (maybe even to the point of rating it only 2 stars) but if you manage to "listen through" this (maybe I manage better than others as a LOT of my collection is made up of music from the 78 rpm era where fidelity varies widely) it's an O.K. enough blowing date IMHO.

Who cares what the record sounds like with that great cover art! It ain't THAT bad anyhow. Certianly not on the level of his Contemporary LP's but still listenable enough, no matter what Down Beat and Gioia said. Looking at the Down Beat review (2 stars) I've got a hunch that beyond recording quality issues they picked this record as one of those where they failed all the participants summarily for being "derivative" (one of their favorite derogatory terms of those years, it seems ), not creating something substantially new, etc. - i.e. their pet peeve they seem to have nourished at that time, proving you can downgrade anything if you feel like it. Just my 2c - and yes, at times I do take the liberty of disagreeing with certain review "authorities"

Actually the "Exploring the Future" album originally was a DOOTONE label release. Otherwise, thumbs up for Curtis Counce here too. I, too, got curious about exploring him further after reading Ted Gioia's book and haven't regretted it.

Good to see even "elder statesmen" of this forum settled on the Affinity reissue (like I had to) with its nondescript packaging with this one, and I envy those who were able to obtain/afford the exact replica reissue LP. I like this recording a lot too, though I would not really know if I were to rate it higher than his "Free Fro All" on Specialty.