Big Beat Steve

Yeah - having read the BEFORE MOTOWN book with great interest I'd like to get that one too!

To sum it all up, I guess the two statements above ought to have been the guideline from post #1 both here and over at AAJ (where some apparently encountered Boots Randolph in a way to have something genuinely positive to say - as opposed to some quip that happened some 35 years ago in surroundings that probably were quite different to the way things are today). Maybe at least in obituary threads like this one this might be a fitting guideline for the occasion - if only as a minimum sign of final respect. Gay people being the target or not, I repeat what I'll said elsewhere: A lot of persons in the eye of the public (not least of all jazz musicians) do not always behave the way we onlookers would expect them to. Would it have been appropriate e.g. to recall that backstage incident involving Dizzy Gillespie and that female jazz critic (I forget her name - it was discussed here some time ago, and from what I recall it escalated to the point of causing T-Bone Walker who was on the same tour to step in and knock Diz down) in a thread mentioning Dizzy Gillespie's passing? A lot of people sometimes act in a way that they might regret later - do we all know for sure, that the original subject of this thread never regretted his somewhat cheap joke later on? If in doubt ...

Up ... with a few additions and deletions. Above list is up to date as of today.

Maybe so (and that one hit Yakety Sax can get to be a drag even for those who are all into late 50s/early 60s r'n'r instrumentals), but Boots Randolph sure has his participation in a lot of hit sessions in the country, pop (and maybe even mainstream jazz - of sorts) field to his credit, and that's no mean achievement (like his style or not - I for one don't). At any rate, "good riddance" under these circumstances is quite uncalled for too. Offhand there are quite a few other msicians who didn't exactly always behave the way "political correctness" would have expected them to, and yet they are held in high esteem, and there would not be any shortage of excuses for their personal shortcomings . BTW, who TF is or was Jim Nabors? He certainly is nowhere on the map in the musical/"celebrity" memory outside the States anymore, but Boots Randolph certainly is.

Man, that's a great album. I just got the CD last Winter. Agreed! And another one that goes very nicely with it and has a very early "crossover" line-up (before this term existed at all) is AFTER THE RIOT AT NEWPORT by THE NASHVILLE ALL STARTS on RCA LPM-2302 (reissued on Bear Family) As for the rest, as I never really liked fusion (fusion was all the rage in jazz when I got into jazz in the 70s and sort of crowded out all the "straight-ahead blowing" rest, leaving you kind of dizzy, wondering what jazz in some people's minds was supposed to be about after all ;) ) I never felt any urge to get into G.B.'s "later" work. My loss, maybe, but there is soooo much jazz to listen to anyway.

Hardly surprising ... Bill Holman's "In A Jazz Orbit" was originally issued on the ANDEX label. No connection with the MODE label (that I suppose this Japanese CD reissue series is supposed to cater for). This is the kind of record that VSOP or FRESH SOUND would be more likely to reissue.

Any extra material (previously unissued tracks, etc.) included vs. the originals and/or VSOP/Jap VINYL reissues? Or is this for CD fetishists only? (In that case, playing time would be a bit on the short side)

I can see your point, and I would not want my heirs to be taken advantage of either. I have made similar provisions like you have (except that my "trustee" is slightly younger than I am, yet not that much younger that a "Plan B" would be totally unnecessary). Yet none of us really have a hand in all that after we are gone, and one thing is obvious: Unless your heirs invest the time to sell off each and every item they have inherited for the best price possible they are very likely to lose money (compared to what oyu once paid for each item in your collection), especially so if they tried to get the whole collection into the hands of a discerning collector (which to the unknowing often sounds like such a smart idea because "they will be able to appreciate the value"). Discerning those collectors may be, but have you ever heard of anybody of these paying the market price for each and every item in a sizable collection? Obviously if you buy an entire lot the price per item will be FAR less than if you sold each item separately (even more so if the discerning buyer happens to be a record DEALER). It's up to each individual concerned to decide if the lower overall price is worth the tradeoff against NOT having to invest the time and effort to sell each item separately. Better not think about it, because you won't be able to do too much about it after you're gone - even if you attached a tag with the average collector's market value to each of your records before you bow out. And in the meantime, maybe it's not such a bad idea to get some really good purchases the same way - that might help reduce the eventual financial losses for your heirs.

Japanese facsimile reissues of the original Mode LP are around so this should make it unnecessary to run after beat-up originals that may be original but just too poor to be worth much. The music is nice and enjoyable but not overwhelmingly groundbreaking. If I remember correctly Down Beat rated it only 2 and a half stars for that very reason (lack of originality, "derivativeness", etc.).

Ken ris right. Another aspect is that even the seller should make out O.K. if he manages to sell a batch of items in one go at a lower price per item as this will save him a lot of extra work (listing, shipping, etc.) that he would have to put in if he had tried to sell each item separately. Why should auctions be different from the way things like this are handled at garage sales, swap meets, etc.? So per se I cannot see anything wrong with listing entire lots of somewhat related items (such as these Mosaics), and most of my best buys have been when I bought entire lots of related items (even if I did not particularly care each and every item included in the lot, the price per individual item often was almost ridiculously low so this more than made up for those items I did not like or already had). Of course the abusive handling charge policy in this particular instance is a different thing and this may be what caused the auction to be removed.

Kyo, if you check out your local Zweitausendiens shop you just might be lucky and find a copy of the following disc ni the SALE bin: Little Jimmy Scott & The Paul Gayten Band (with Special Guest Sam Butera) - Regal Records Live in New Orleans (Specialty SPCD 2170-2) recorded live for Regal Records at Rip's Playhouse in New Orleans in 1951 This will give you a taste of Little Jimmy's R&B ballad style (and as an extra teaser you also get some frantic Ray Abrams/Sam Butera honkin' sax duels that are totally zonked out! )) This particular CD was available form 2001 for a mere 1.99 euros (or so) for a long time so you just can't go wrong at that price. Maybe you're lucky and your shop still has a copy left over. Clunky, Black California Vol. 1 & 2 are highly recommended indeed. As far as I know only Vol. 2 was also available on CD.

I agree about the importance of the V.A. compilations in the SJL 2-LP sets. It's these that really fill out the picture as otherwise you'd be stuck with the "name" artists only and would miss all the material in between by all those who did not record enough for the label(s) to fill out a full 2-LP set. On the other hand, it's a pity some artists still did not get all their material reissued in one place either on vinyl or on CD in those Savoy reissue sets, e.g. Leo Parker. (Or did he?) As for checking out the details of the original sessions, I'd suggest Michel Ruppli's Savoy discography. And finally, mikeweil - as for Savoy being the greatest discographical mess, I understand CHESS is an even greater mess (cf. the Red Saunders Research Foundation website)

Ugly, yes ... especially since the "sustaining" in the subtitle actually is part of the NAME of the broadcasts, i.e. it should be written with a CAPITAL "S" ("Sutstaining Broadcasts" referring to the "Sustain the Wings" radio program, I think). The silly painting is bad enough, but inane (and apparently never proofread) typesetting on top of this .... Looks like a shoddy "couldn't-care-less" production. And then $66.90? Oh my ...

Nothing new under the sun there, Shawn! Take any number of 70s or 80s reissue LP's of 50s (or even earlier) music and what will you see? Early 50s Baker-Mulligan quartets endorsed by a bearded, long-haired viking (guess who? :D), any number of swing or mainstream musicians that looked well past the visual sell-by date compared to the music that predated the cover pics by at least 30 years, etc. etc. There was a French RCA reissue series (the one with the red and white spine) that was particularly bad in this respect. Too bad in many cases they are clearly doing the musicians a big disservice as this kind of cover will not even reinforce their position as "elder statesmen of jazz" (which may have been their original intention - if any thinking went into the artwork at all). Picked up the "Hi Ho Trailus Boot Whip" reissue of Anita O'Day's 1947 Signature recordings on the Bob Thiele reissue label the other day. My, that pic of her in that garish 70s garb sure is not all that flattering .... It's really odd why the reisue labels went to such great efforts to modernize covers for such a long time yet ended up with such clumsy results that are totally out of tune (literally...) with the musical contents ...

Jean-Claude Fohrenbach - "Fohrenbach French Sound". As for the series being finished, let's hope not ... If they decide to go back into the 78rpm era (like they did with the "Jazz under the Occupation" CD) there MUST be more. Same for releases on the French Polydor label. Also agree about including a facsimile of the original artwork. Though the period Paris street scenes are very nice and in many cases evoke the era of the music nicely ...

Interesting question, Kenny. To us Europeans "Rock'n'Roll" by definition really is only the music from the very first appearance of the likes of Bill Haley, Elvis, etc. around 1954 up to the era until the Beatles broke through (i.e. 1963) - in short, the REAL thing. Beat, 60s Garage Punk, Hard Rock, Country Rock, Psychedelic, Folk Rock, and everything that came afterwards etc. definitely are NOT R'n'R. Rock - yes, but Rock AND Roll... But Americans seem to think differently. I remember a U.S. friend once proudly mentioned a "Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame" museum in his home state of Ohio. Soon afterwards i saw a coffee table book issued by this museum. Very lavishly produced, but mostly Psychedelic, Acid Rock, Hard Rock, etc., i.e. late 60s and 70s stuff. Boy, was I disappointed!

I don't think so ... I don't think eBay would care enough about cancelling an auction set out under THESE terms. They want their fees. What it boils down to is this: IMHO any non-U.S. (or Canadian) bidder would have to fall into one of the following two categories - Somebody foolish enough to be taken advantage of like this, or - some Asian (mostly Japanese) who's got money to burn and just WANTS these items desperately enough to pay ANY amount for it (not rare on eBay) I've seen inflated "handing" surcharges on foreign bids on other eBay items before (though they did seem VERY moderate compared to this) and have never bid on such items as a matter of principle (I am not going to use the term for such transactions that immediately comes to mind, but ... )). Anyway ... no extra waiting time required, for example, for filling in a customs form and having to queue up at a separate post office counter for mailing overseas shipments could warrant fees like this, and besides, and if the sellers don't want to go into this hassle (that's certainly not the buyer's fault) then they'd better mark their auctions "Domestic bidders only" right from the start (and forsake any higher foreign bids that might them yield even more money).

@mikeweil, king ubu: Did you read the fine (or rather, gross) print to the end, guys? $225 surcharge for Paypal payers from outside the U.S.! (Not to mention the $300 surcharge for Paypal payers from a credit card-based Paypal account) And all this on account of fees allegedly charged by Paypal ... What kind of suckers does this guy think the eBay bidders are? Say what you may about the drawbacks of Paypal but the Papyal fee policy is nowhere like this. C'mon guys, this kind of behavior is more than reason enough to avoid sellers like this like the plague!

BTW, is her brother - R&B saxophonist JOE LUTCHER - still around? He retired from wordly music to become a minister LONG ago but his early 50s small-band R&B recordings are among the finest of their kind.

Could somebody please explain this kind of logic (if any) to me? Did Pops record any bop (a.k.a. jiu jitsu music in his lingo) at all? So is there anything by him AFTER his "pre-bop recordings" to listen to? Does this mean jazzkat listens to those Pops recordings that are the most non-jazz recordings of his that he ever made? Strange, very strange ...

I have to agree with Chewy - of sorts ...: The studio recordings by both of them from that era are fine, BUT: I - These live recordings by Dex and Wardell (Chase & The Steeplechase or The Hunt, etc.) really aren't that bad sound-wise. No super hi fi but good enough compared to a lot of other live stuff that has been released through the years. II - They do get to stretch out there, and creating pure excitement is no mean feat either. Remember you jazzheads out there: Wasn't it the jazziest of the jazzy jazzheads that have always complained both about the fact that the 3-minute 78rpm limit severely hampered the creative flow of the jazzmen and about the fact that jazz lost its grip on the people and its ties with popular music and retreated into an ivory tower after 1945? Now here you get both - jazzmen stretching out AND connecting with the crowds. There IS "lasting value" there. So what's the deal? So just listen to these Gene Norman Just Jazz live sessions and all the rest and picture yourselves there, with no false pretenses but just for the ENJOYMENT of JAZZ. What can be bad about that? III - Creative "contemplativity" is all well, but they did their share of that anyway so there's something for everybody. Do you need more of the same all the time? Creativity doesn't have to be contemplative forever in order to be just that - creative. And if you need yet more sax ballad contemplativity, spin another Ben Webster or Johnny Hodges disc.

I am no expert on the situation of jazz in all of Europe in the 50s and 60s, of course, but you got to distinguish between two aspects: On the one hand, jazzmen (especially visiting U.S. stars) certainly were treated with much more respect and held in awe throughout the entire jazz community than may have often been the case in the States. So this ties in with your impression. On the other, the jazz fraternity (including its main promoters) seemed to have felt ill at ease compared to the musical scene at large and felt that respect for jazz as a valid art form could only be achieved by elevating jazz in every respect possible onto a pedestal similar to that occupied by classical music (at least that was clearly the case in Germany for quite some time and became quite obvious while this "Third Stream" was all the rage). Jacques Loussier definitely was a HUGE seller over here and his Play Bach discs are among those that still crop up in secondhand record bins here even if these bins are otherwise totally devoid of anything jazz (except for maybe the occasional Glenn Miller or Satchmo album).

I don't really know about the U.S. angle on this but from an EUropean point of view it was like this: Jazz in Europe (and here in Germany, in particular) had always had a hard time fighting for its "respectability" in musical and cultural circles after 1945. And what would bestow more respectability on any music in good old Europe than its approval by "legitimate" forms of music, i.e. CLASSICAL music? Jazz magazines went out of their way over here in the German-language area to move jazz close to those "respectable" musical art forms (denigrating most of Lionel Hampton's European tours as something more akin to that oh so condemnable musical bastard called rock'n'roll, for example). Presenting jazz in a "serious", dead-earnest concert setting was more like it. As a result, those attempts of U.S. exponents such as the Modern Jazz Quartet and their ilk to mate jazz and classical music into something new and "respectable" that became the "Third stream" was greeted with open arms. And would it surprise you therefore, that other main exponents such as George Gruntz or Eugen Cicero came from a Central European background too? Reading European jazz mags from that period and comparing the contents of our #1 German jazz mag of the time (JAZZ PODIUM) with contemporary mags from France and Sweden, for example (which showed how much more virile and lively jazz happenings were there), just shows to which extent still jazz lacked its self-esteem here and had to rely on that crutch that classical "longhair" music was. I for one don't feel sorry for the fact the this "Third Stream" thing eventually proved to be an artistic dead end.

Hey, so was I (born almost 2 decades after Charlie C.'s death), but no offense meant - when I said "newbie" I meant "Charlie Christian recording newbie" (no matter how long you've been into digging jazz overall). Because sadly it looks like there is not very much on these boxes that you do not have yet if you have the "usual" suspects, i.e. the Minton's sessions and those Benny Goodman Sextet recordings, broadcasts, rehearsals, etc. that have been around in various reissue guises through the years. Wish there was more that's a real first-time release or reissue ...

DSM's drawing style sure is a classic of the era but at times I find his albums fail to portray moods that go beyond the introspective, moody and "low down" and are therefore not always in keeping with the music in the grooves. (See the Tal Farlow album cover - don't have the record No. on hand right now so cannot give the original release No.; this particular cover drawing might as well have been on the cover of some down home "in the gutter" country blues artist's music, yet Tal Farlow's guitar style is light years away from that). To change the tone and make for a contrast, full marks therefore to JIM FLORA's zany RCA cover art. :D