medjuck

Have you heard the Definitive release? This is *said* to be the best version of the Carnegie Hall concert. Less noisier than the Schaap (extreme in this regard, even my 80 year old neighbour complained about the scratching sounds ) and much clearer than the noisereduced earlier CBS CD reissue. I agree about the Definitive disc. There's some controversy as to whether they had a different source or just doctored the Schaap cd. Whatever: the result is great. All you miss is some between numbers audience shuffling. (The same is true of their Charlie Christian live box.) I know they're dastardly pirates, but they seem to have good engineers. BTW Since I brought it up: if you want a cd version of the correct take of Up & Down on which Clark Terry does his "Oh what fools these mortals be", it's on a cd devoted to Ralph Ellison. (I forget the title right now.)

If you mean at the end of the disc (ie after the anouncements) it's actually track 21: something Phil Schaap called a pause track. It should be listed on your cd and in the notes. Schaap had this idea that we would want a pause track for programming our cds. He also seemed to think that we all knew how to use indexes on our players. He was so worried about stuff like that that he left out the actual take of Up and Down from Such Sweet Thunder that everyone talks about in the notes.

I've got a Ray Russell cd where Gil Evans plays on a couple of cuts, the RMS with Gil at Montreux cd and a DVD of the latter which includes a lot of RMS without Gil. I didn't find the non-Gil cuts very interesting. But then I'm not really into fusion.

I think that one of the few exceptions to this was the issue of Esquire in which the "Great Day in Harlem" photo first appeared. Much of that issue was devoted to articles about Jazz under the gnereal descriptioin "The Golden Age of Jazz". Rarely do people realise when they're in a Golden Age. (Tv people always point out that when they were working in the '50s in what is now known as the "Golden Age of tv" everyone told them that what they were doing was crap). But take a look at that famous photo and you see it was a brief period when many of the early greats were still alive and a whole new crop of modernists were making the presence felt. A Golden Age indeed and someone at Esquire knew it. Of course, very few of even the modernists are still alive now.

My only problem with it is that it doesn't include the studio chatter from the original releases. Not only is it interesting but it's become part of the songs for me.

Well since I started this thread let me jump in: I certainly don't think of my self as an anti-intellectual. I was an academic with a Phd for many years. I guess I still have the PhD though nobody but my mother ever calls me Doctor. I think my biggest influences were Marshall Mcluhan and Robertson Davies (who were my teachers) along with Roland Barthes and Susan Sontag. I'm certainly not against analysis, but I do think a lot of Jazz criticism is just one-upmanship. And what's that famous quote: "Writing about music is like dancing about architecture".

All good points. My only defence is that most baseball players get paid more than most jazz musicians. I think when you're working in a field in which it's so difficult to make a living, to read someone explaining to the general public why they shouldn't like your work must be very discouraging. It might be argued that no-one's telling the reader not to like Oscar Peterson but rather that maybe they should listen to Art Tatum too. (And of course, OP probably does make more money than many baseball palyers-- actually now that I think of it, I doubt it.) BTW Do you include the last two recorded box sets of Bill Evans in your critique? (Turn Out the Lights, and Last Sessions, I think they're called.) I may not have liked the Gary peacock Trio, but I really like most of this. And I've probably read more critics-- and been influenced by them-- than one might infer from what I've written here. And the next time they're offering the old people's discount at my local Borders I'll get a copy of your book.

I have never heard of this. Please site sources - even if you need to quote a critic. I'll try to find it. As I vaguely remember reading it Monk grabbed Feather in a bear hug.

If you're talking to me you'll note that I said this forum was one of the places I do look to for recommendations. Actualy i've bought a lot more cds since I started reading this forum than I ever did when I read Downbeat regulalry.

Ubik was the first Dick novel I read. I did so because Jean-Pierre Gorin (Godard's erstwhile partner) was trying to make a movie from it. He never did, but it least introduced me to a great writer.

I started thinking about this after hearing one of the musicians on the Miles IOW DVD complaining that no-one needs a license or takes a test to become a critic. Then on this forum I had a tiff with Larry Kart over his put down of Oscar Peterson and post-Scott Lafaro Bill Evans, and went on to read the Francis Davis threads that Clem started with his rants. Ironically I agree to some extent with the critics whose work I'm questioning: I don't own any Oscar Peterson recordings (except of course as an accompianist), didn't like the Evans trios with Gary Peacock (unfortunately the trio I heard the most often live) and can't think of one pre- 1970 Miles recording I'd trade for anything he did after 1970. But, so what? I hope I would feel the same no matter what the critics say. Monk once physically attacked Leonard Feather, accusing him of taking the food from his family with his criticism. Many of the jazzmen we all love barely made a living and some gave up playing to work at (amongst other places) the post office! So who needs even more negativity in this field. This may sound like I'm saying that critics should only be positive. Well maybe I am. Isn't there enough good stuff out there to write about that you don't need to try to keep us away from any music? I don't have to be told not to like Kenny G. I only need to hear him. And that doesn't make me morally or intellectually superior to his fans. And after listening to Jazz for 40 years I can remember only a few the times I've been turned on to something I liked by a critic rather than by a friend or just by listening. (Or by a recommendation on this board.) I have a gotten a lot out of reading musicians bios and by some histories of the music. Now I've been a critic in a way myself: I wrote a column for my college newspaper which got me in free to a lot of shows at clubs but the only thing I'm now embarassed to have written is something I thought was very cool at the time: In reviewing a performance of the 2nd Miles quintet I made reference to Wayne Shorter having "recently escaped the confines of Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers". At the time the critical consenus was that the Messengers had become commercial funk meisters and I wanted to seem as hip as everyone else. Which is what I think a lot of critics do. I don't think I'm being very articulate about this and I've got to go take my son to volleyball practice. And as I said in the subject line "this is not a rhetorical question": i.e. I don't know the answer.

Only the 2 Coltrane cuts from Someday My Prince Will Come are on a box set. Worth getting the Columbia/Legacy cd which has the original album in the original order plus 2 bonus cuts.( The six tracks not in the Coltrane box are the only Columbia Miles releases from the 50's & 60's not on a box set.

Though I'll probably get dumped on by some members of this group for recommending it there's a real good Proper 4 cd box devoted to Wardell. (And it only costs about $20.)

Johnny Long?

For what it's worth: The Great Ray Charles (all 14 tracks) is available for download from the Apple iTunes Music Store. ($9.99).

He was probably about to have a comback in popularity. In Scorscese's The Aviator they keep playing Nightmare as score. In fact at one point when Ava Gardener tells Howard Hughes that she'll sleep with Frank Sinatra or Artie Shaw if she wants to they're playing Nightmare on the soundtrack.

I really like this cd. Though not all the music is great it's a terrific evocation of an era. Maxine Gordon's liner notes are fascinating but I'm not sure that this set should have been released under her late husband's name. If anyone still argues that the boppers couldn't play the blues make them listen to Bop After Hours. The revelation for me here is Barney Kessel: His solos are consistently great.

I'd already heard a lot of Red Allen when I tried to read this book. I think that like many people in many fields (including politics) he's taken an intersting idea and become obsessed by it to the point of distortion.

One of his first films was as Fred Exley (sp?) in A Fan's Notes. It wasn't as good as the book but still pretty interesting. Maybe I just remember it because they shot a scene in my apartment. My girlfriend at the time could later brag that Jerry Orbach had slept in her bed.

Actually I took 2 from him ,and he was supposed to be on my MA thesis board but never showed up. I once got cornered by him on a train trip where he lectured me for an hour about Dante-- whom I'd never read, and hence didn't really understand anything he said. I don't think McLuhan cared: he just wanted an audience so he could try out some new ideas.

Oh no!. I first read Against Interpretation nearly 40 years ago when Marshal McLuhan recommended it in a class I was taking with him. I've been a fan ever since. Though I didn't always agree with her politically I thought she towered above most other supposed intellectuals in the US. She'll be missed and I can't think of anyone who will take her place.

I bought the book and the cd released to accompany it. I'm always interested in finding out about lesser known worthy musicians. The cd was good but I couldn't finish the book. Because he only talks about White musicians and (as far as I read) doesn't discuss influences or interactions with Black musicians I felt I had to keep referring to other books to get much sense of what was going on. It was sort of like reading a history of Europe that had arbitrarily decided not to mention France because the French had gotten too much credit in other books.

I used to never get early Stan Getz even though I liked his post mid-50's stuff. Bought the much lauded Storyville sessions and didn't see what all the fuss was about. Then last week I listened to it again and it was great!. I'm still waiting to get post '70 Miles. I do find I enjoy watching DVDs of thelater groups but don't enjoy just listening to them on cd. Similarly I've loved Cecil Taylor in concert but don't listen to him on record.

I think he quoes "Worksong" in both versions of Moanin'.

Check this out http://www.cmoa.org/teenie/info.asp Starting about photo 1100 there's a bunch of Billy Eckstine's band from '44 (with Bird and Dizzy) as well as photos of Mary-Lou Williams. Apparently there are also photos of Duke and Billy Strayhorn but I haven't come across them yet. Some of you guys could probably help the archive identify musicians. Just check the "comments" box. This is would be a wonderful site even without the jazz connection. If you're from Pittsburg this should make you proud.