Free For All

I haven't read all the DEEP threads, so forgive me if this is something that's already been discussed. Why doesn't Dan just create his own website and hold forth there? He can say whatever he wants with no threat of expulsion. He can be the King of his own world. I would speculate that he's thought of this and may actually prefer to visit and ravage the sites of others. He reminds me of a friend of mine (from high school days) who's an amazing player and incredibly intelligent but a hostile and cruel person when he's chemically altered (or when he's not and wants to be). And then he's bugged because no one will hire him. I reached out to this guy countless times, used him on gigs, and finally had to give up and get away from him lest I get "dragged into the pit". I try to be extra patient and tolerant with friends I perceive to be the "tortured genius" type, but it comes down to that life is just too short to spend it in co-dependent agony. That may sound cold, but there comes a point where you have to save yourself.

Yeah, I was actually thinking about Pete when I posted. Now he can play on that tune and make it sound melodic and decidedly UN-mechanical. But of course, we all know Pete's insane. B)

Yes, doubleM, you should put in the time and check it out- I think that was an important point in Jim's post. You need to decide how you feel about the tune. Besides, if nothing else, practicing some cyclic gymnastics will do nothing but help your playing. Just remember that patterns and such represent a means to an end, not the end itself. I've said that before but I think it bears repeating.

Thanks for the link, DIS. Interesting stuff.

I've always struggled with this tune as well as Countdown. Moment's Notice and Lazybird come much easier to me. I had a brief epiphany regarding GS when I played an arrangement of it that was in 3/4. This allowed more time in each key center and encouraged a more melodic approach, at least for me. I guess I don't like dealing with it at a "Cherokee" tempo- it becomes a jam session cutting tune. I have heard few play it at that tempo and sound more than mechanical. The modulation process goes by so quickly there's not much chance to do more than run the changes. There is an arrangement of GS by Tony Klatka and Frank Tiberi in Woody's book- man, you should hear Frank (in his mid-70s!) lay into those Trane tunes (there are also charts on Countdown, Central Park West and Lazybird in the book)! I have also played it as a medium bossa, which is fun, but I always feel that people think if you don't play it super-fast you're just a big wussie. So I tend to just not do it. EDIT: As far as ways to practice tunes like this, I concur with those who say START SLOW! Try to play bass lines to learn to connect the key centers. Practice "guide tones" (chord tones that move with stepwise voice leading) in half notes to start with. I think to make it work it's about connecting the key centers as opposed to isolating each one. Try to play over the bar lines you might normally avoid to experience different types of phrasing. Good luck!

Put up any pickles lately? How's that freezer workin'? That tonic salesman been back?

What do you think of Curtis Fuller? Bruce, I'm a big fan of Curtis Fuller. I consider him to be one of the main cats who brought the trombone into the front line. He was the only trombonist to record with Bud Powell and Coltrane. He and JJ were among the first players I heard that got me interested in pursuing trombone. That being said, I must say that I find his oeuvre to be a bit inconsistent. Sometimes his sound is pretty rough, like he's played a little too long that day, which may very well be the case. I'm thinking specifically about some of the Blakey sides, and I realize that recording quality is partially to blame. Sometimes, though, I feel like he's having to play louder than he'd like to, and when that happens, sound quality and control are definitely compromised. It's like having to shout to be heard- not much of a chance for subtlety. He was an innovator in the concept of legato double-tonguing (AKA "doodle"-tonguing)- he wasn't the first to do it, but he and Carl Fontana made it into a "household" technique. He uses a pretty heavy tonguing accent which sometimes makes his articulation a bit cumbersome (IMHO), but he has his own sound and is a highly emulated player (listen to Steve Davis, for example). I've transcribed and studied several of his solos. There are some great ones, although he did have a pretty rough time on Moment's Notice- I sure wouldn't want to have been in his shoes on that session. Coltrane brought in a tune that he'd been shedding for who knows how long. Poor Curtis, Lee and Kenny had to practically sightread it. When Mr. Fuller is in a situation where he's clearly playing by his rules, though, no one can touch him. I would love to meet Curtis one day- I hear he's a great person. In spite of a few sub-par moments (which all great players have experienced) I consider him one of the top half-dozen. And I love his Mosaic set.

I know Kenton gets a bad rap much of the time. The band is often stiff and generally is not known for a high level of swing, although there are a few exceptions to that generalization. I think Kenton just had a different sound in his head, certainly not everyone's cup of tea. I heard the band many times in high school (70s) and remember the thrill of hearing the band in the big grandiose moments, although I don't remember as many memorable moments as far as soloists from those years. I went to the Kenton music camps a couple summers in the mid-70s. the band was in residence for a week in Springfield, MO (as well as some other national locations). The first year I went I was totally green and got into the lowest ensemble and theory class, but I got to hang out w/the guys in the band for a week and they really encouraged, nurtured and inspired me. I also drank Scotch and heard Carl Fontana for the first time! I went home that summer and started to practice and study and the next summer I placed much higher, including getting into Hank Levy's arranging class and writing my first chart, which the Kenton band read- that was a thrill! That was the beginning for me- I had found what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. As I discovered more players I sort of gravitated away from the Kenton band and towards more blowing-oriented bands like Woody and Basie, but I will always credit that experience w/the Kenton band as something that pointed me in the right direction. And I still listen to Kenton from time to time. It is what it is and often it's very good. Anyone else here ever go to any Kenton camps?

.....and Carl Fontana!

Agreed! His GWB and his Harry Carey were outstanding! PS- speaking of Harry, I just did a search to check the spelling and noticed that he passed on Feb. 18th, 1998, which is tomorrow. Cub Fan Bud Man!

That reminded me of another all-time greatest musical chill-inducing moment, also by Miles/Coltrane. On the '58 Miles version of Stella, at the beginning of the second chorus where Trane takes over, basically playing an embellished version of the melody and Jimmy Cobb and PC switch from the "two" feel to the "four" feel. One of the hippest medium swing moments of all time, Cobb's ride cymbal is sublime. Hoochie Mama!

And while we're at it, how about a Buddy Bolden gig so we can see if Wynton knew what he was talking about.

Hi Tom! Welcome back (to KC as well as the board) my friend! And get back here ASAP- the inmates have been running the asylum as of late (not for long though) and we need you! PS- I'm doing the Fairmount gig Thursday night, stop by if you feel like it.... B)

Lin really assimilated the late 50s Rollins style. He was frail, sensitive, funny, haunted and absolutely thundering when he picked up his horn. Everyone loved him and looked out for him. I got to play with him many times while I was living in Chicago- at the Green Mill, Deja Vu (a club owned by the Mill owner- for a while Lin lived in an apartment above the club), the Bop Shop and the infamous Get Me High! Anyone remember that place?

If I have to choose between those two things, I think I'd rather listen to some Ornette. ...even the lame violin-playing Ornette......

OK, OK; I'll play. What do you call a trombonist without a girlfriend? Homeless. And some other chestnuts which I'm sure you've all heard..... How do you know if there's a "chick singer" at your door? She doesn't have her key and doesn't know when to come in. What's the difference between a violin and a viola? Viola burns longer. How do you write "tremolo" for viola? Write a whole note and put "solo" above it. How do you make a guitarist turn down? Put a chart in front of him. What's the difference between a bull and a big band? Well, with a bull the horns are in front and the asshole's in back. Thanks folks! I'll be at the Holiday Inn on Route 14 all week!

That same seventh partial is also really flat on trombone, to the point you have to use an alternate position to play it (it's an Ab) in tune.

I think what you're saying, Jim, is that one should put the heart before the course. I like playing the bluesy I7 over the V7 too. And that's just plain wrong!

No problem, EKE BBB- my Spanish really sucks!

Tadd was a chick? Sure, man- where'd you think the title "Ladybird" came from? .....or "Mating Call"...........?

I had a great comic collection that I gave away! Doh! Remember "Metal Men"?

I mean F# MA7 #1!

Wasn't there a Mr. Mxlpzytk or something like that who was one of Superman's enemies? If I remember you had to get him to say his name backwards and then he'd disappear. Cat played the shit out of a G7 #9 though!

Late night theory jam! Got to love it!

That is weird, Wheel! Would that be the "Irony-an" mode?