Stevie Mclean

I've recently been uncovering the wonders of Tommy Potter by way of Jimmy Forrest and Willis Jackson. Who would have thought, the backbone of bop is also one helluva soul jazz player! Fresh Sounds has a CD of the Willis Jackson session with Tommy playing on 14 songs.

Whaaaaat that's awesome! Out of the options to: 1. Mention his name and his playing but ignore his vices. 2. Mention his name, his playing and his vices. 3. Omit his name but mention his playing and his vices. You definitely chose the strangest one!

I might agree with his bowed solos leaving a little to be desired (though he is far from alone in that category as far as I am concerned) however, I never have issues with his pizz solos. And I agree with you, "the rest of it" alone is enough to justify his place in the halls of bass excellence. Jackie McLean - Swing Swang Swingin' Bill Barron - The Tenor Stylings... J.R. Monterose - The Message Walter Bishop Jr. - Speak Low Kenny Dorham - Show Boat Philly Joe - Blues for Dracula 😉

Yes!! I absolutely adore his playing. He was my first love when it comes to jazz bass. His use of harmonics is so unique and recognizable and his rhythmic feel hits me like a truck. I also quite enjoy his playing with Walt Dickerson in the 70's. It's awesome to hear his signature sound from the 50's in a more free setting. A very fitting album title for his lone recording.

Great player, and he's got style as well! Ack, I forgot about that. let me know when I can get my ears on it,I'm not a fan of window shopping. 😢

Yeah, at that point in time Ervin and Young's inside out styles really paired quite well. When Young and Forrest recorded Forrest Fire (3 years prior) Young was still quite JOS-inspired which gave him a forward looking but still relatively straight ahead sound that worked very well with Forrest's modern tough-tenor style. It's cool to see Young work with a variety of soloists as his conception evolved through time.

Along with one of my personal favourites:

Face to Face has long been my personal favourite soul jazz album with Swingin' at Sugar Ray's being my favourite song on the album. Therefore, I was pleasantly surprised to find that Whap! from The Honeydripper is basically the same song. As I was listening to the head it struck me as quite similar, but boy was I unprepared for Grant's solo. He almost note for note replayed his solo from S.A.S.R. But hey I don't blame him, it's a legendary solo imo and the McDuff session was just 4 days after the Willette session so I'll give him a pass. I'm interested to hear about other examples of duplicated solos, I'm sure this is not an isolated incident.

TALKIN ABOUT GREEEEAZZZEE!!! Larry Young's comping and solo on Dexter's Deck from Forrest Fire is a master class in greasy funky subtle wonderful brilliant intelligent musical awesomeness. The way he constructs the solo off of a simple theme and slowly builds up to such a high energy, foot stompin' groove is just fascinating. And all that at age 19! Talkin' about LARRY YOUNG! What about that Jimmy Forrest too eh? A pairing made for wax!

On the underrated front, I have always enjoyed Ben Tucker's playing on many "soul-adjacent" records. He always had such a booming sound and could play with the rhythm just enough to make it interesting while always staying in the pocket. In a similar vein to Tucker, I also really enjoy Eldee Young's contributions to the Ramsey Lewis Trio. I dare say he might be my favourite part!

well who would want to miss a discussion of that kind?

I haven't heard anything of Mapp or Smith, however I quite enjoy Farmer's work in Mal Waldron's trio. His passing was indeed much too soon. There is an interview with Art in which he discusses his brothers untimely passing and gives some insight on how it affected him and his view of life and death, quite an interesting and emotional read. I've really been getting into Cyrille by way of Walt Dickerson so I am excited to give these records a listen. In an interview Jackie McLean stated that Phipps left the scene completely to follow his true passion of photography. He also said that music was not Phipps passion and that he did it to make some bread. If that happens to be true, I can't find any evident of that in his playing. He always sounded great in his few recordings. I know Rowser from one of my favourite Hank and Dorham sessions Curtain Call. I cant say that his playing on that album struck me in any way but I'm sure he contributes his fair share to a favourite of mine. Will give a more focused listen to him for sure.

I'll start with some obscure players. Carl Brown (His only recording was Steve Lacy's "Evidence" session.) Arthur Phipps (NY based, played on some Jackie McLean records and on the Barrow-Amram quartet's "The Eastern Scene") I have updated the title to include underrated players as well. Let's not be sticklers for who's is or isn't "underrated", let's just discuss some bassists who deserve more recognition than they have received (so basically all of 'em!).

And you just can't beat primo KD... or regular KD for that matter.

I noticed that Tommy Flanagan shows up on a suspiciously large amount of my favorite trumpet quartet records. I think it could be interesting to see which one is the most popular along with just starting a discussion on why Tommy works so well on all of these wonderful recordings. Personally I am torn between Quiet Kenny and The King and I, mostly for trumpet related reasons. However, I am undecided on which is my favorite for Tommy Flanagan related reasons. Please let me know if I'm missing any, these are only the records that I am aware of (with a heavy 50's/60's bias).

I can really relate to not remembering song names. However I might go as far as to say I am more inclined to recognize changes rather than a melody. I enjoy figuring out contrafacts, I have even started a spreadsheet categorizing contrafacts by their original version (with the hopes that it will help me one day remember song titles).

Thanks for the detailed explanation Jim, exactly what I was looking for. I love all the creative sounds Teef gets out of his instruments, like his humming while playing flute thing that also confounds me!

On the wonderful album "Images of Curtis Fuller", there is a song "Judyful", on which Teef opens his solo with this blaring note that I can only describe as a train horn! he does it another time later on as well. I just love how it sounds and it absolutely commands anybody within earshot to pay attention. Can anybody hip me to what he is actually doing with the saxophone to achieve this effect? I assume some kind of overblowing / loose embouchure to get extra vibration out of the reed?

I'm a little late to this thread but I have really been on a Harden kick lately, so I enjoyed reading everybody's contributions to this thread. I do have one thing to add, which I found quite interesting... In Bill Brower's interview with Curtis Fuller for the Smithsonian History Museum, Fuller has some very... interesting comments on Wilbur's playing/performance style along with what seems to be an allusion to some time spent in a mental institution. Brower: One Time I saw Brooks and he had these toy drummers, he had all these toys drummers. In some kind of way he could… He had this laser thing that he could trigger them with. You know when the Chinese had like the –– he had like an army of toy drummers in some kind of a way he was triggering the shit. He was out there. Curtis Fuller: He was out there! You know where he is now, or where he was? Brower: Insane Asylum. Curtis Fuller: Yeah, he and Wilbur Harden. Now, Wilbur, ‘Trane loved him, but I couldn’t stand to watch him. He’s a guy that you, literally, could hear him think. He would stand on the bandstand and be moving about “click, click, click, click” He would say, (scats very sparse, calculated melody). Brower: So, he’s editing-- Curtis Fuller: He’s editing as he’s trying to play. I mean, do you know what that is to watch? Win, and Cedar I couldn’t stand to watch. Cedar had a way like Elvin. Cedar’s time movement with his foot, I couldn’t look at it Brower: Because he would throw you off? Curtis Fuller: He would throw me off because his foot would move out of rhythm, with no distinct pattern or nothing. Sometimes, I would stand there and look like, “What the hell! How did you come up with that one?” Brower: But, Wilbur Harden, on top of his playing was his significance in writing Curtis Fuller: Who’s that? Brower: Wilbur Harden. Curtis Fuller: Yeah, some writing but not a whole lot. Then, there was another guy that was just like him. ‘Trane didn’t like him too much. He ended up with Mingus. Clarence something… Brower: Shaw. Curtis Fuller: Yeah, you know all these guys. Yeah, he was just late Wilbur. I never could get the gist of his… It was always something that was… He kept anticipating that he was going to play something but it would always be the complete opposite of what you thought he would do. The line would be so discombobulated. You would be like, “Where did that come from?” That’s the way he heard it so you can question the guy. I used to stand next to him and say, “Nobody’s home.” It's interesting how Fuller felt this way yet still used him for the Images session. Maybe his negative comments were more influenced by Harden's playing later on, possibly due to worsening mental and physical health. His description of Harden's "editing" style of composing an improvisation while in the middle of a performance sounds quite odd, I would have loved to see this going on firsthand! I can't say it doesn't make sense, as Fuller states in the last response, Harden had a very sparse and unpredictable sound, (which is one of the things I love about his playing, unlike Fuller.), I can kind of picture Harden standing there, thinking about his next line, in the middle of his recorded solos.

Apparently there was an unreleased take of Short Story done 3 days before the full recording of In n' Out with different personnel. Kenny Dorham, trumpet; Joe Henderson, tenor sax; Andrew Hill, piano; Eddie Khan, bass; Elvin Jones, drums. Van Gelder Studio, Englewood Cliffs, NJ, April 7, 1964 1331 Short Story Blue Note rejected Does anyone have more details on this? Was there conflict for Andrew Hill or was the group just not working (unlikely since most had already been together on Our Thing and POD.)? Whatever the reason, I am quite disappointed. Would have loved to hear Our Thing part 2 WITH ELVIN!

I think you might be thinking of Mal's green medicinal cigarettes. I remember a documentary where he talks about needing them to manage the consequences of his overdose.

Wow! Thank you so much! This is an awesome piece of history and a great look into the intelligent mind of Sonny. I wholeheartedly agree with his message and I think this letter is a testament to his long and fruitful career and life. I am also a fan of the artistic choices made on the first letter of each paragraph.

I was listening to Soul Groove by Johnny Griffin and Matthew Gee and found it quite fascinating to listen to Big John and Hank Jones playing organ on the same record. Of course Patton lays down the grease as always, but it is very interesting to hear Hanks soft touch translated to organ in comparison. I really enjoy his melodic playing and I find it to be a nice change of pace from the likes of Big John and the other soul organ grinders. There seems to be an old thread on organ players playing piano, but I can seem to find any reference to piano players playing organ. Id love to hear of other examples pianists dippin' their toes in the grease bucket and what y'all think about their playing.

Thank you for bringing some spotlight to these brilliant young musicians. As a young'un myself I take much inspiration from them and I feel that they are woefully underrepresented in the jazz discourse. I would also like to state that I often see you posting on the "what are you listening to" board and I think that I have enthusiastically agreed with every single post. All of this to say, I think we should be friends Bill.

I've been listening to this album a lot recently, especially since I have been on a bit of a Lacy kick. I also really enjoy Evidence with Don Cherry for similar reasons. what really draws me to these albums is the collective improvisation over a repeating melodic idea without much attention payed to traditional harmony (I enjoy the piano-less trio and quartet setting). I understand that this is the basis of a lot of "free jazz" but I feel like these albums are still relatively easy to listen to and the vocabulary that they are using is not too abstract. I think the fact that they are playing monk tunes also contributes a lot to the sound as it seems like this attention to melodic and rhythmic structure rather than harmonic structure is a natural extension of how monk writes and plays. I am very interested in finding more music that has these qualities. I am open to more Lacy but I am also interested in finding similar sounding artists and groups playing more than just monk.