clifford_thornton

What have you heard? Not trying to bust yer nuts, just curious. I would assume whatever they were doing in the mid- to late-90s. It has been some time, so I can't even recall exactly what was so wrong about them - maybe too cloying and/or schlocky. I can't hit the nails on the head like Jim Sangrey today with the whole vituperative specificity thing...

Exactly. Might as well just go on living - I wouldn't leave my house if I worried about shit all the time.

I'd believe that from someone without the last name Phoenix, but considering his history... Good movie, though.

That is a pretty strong live performance. And one of the very few (only?) piano-less dates Woody ever played on (at least that got released). Check yr Dolphy collection and re-think that last statement, brah!

Medeski, Martin and Wood - whatever they are, I don't care for it. Also, though I would NEVER say I "hate" their playing, Arthur Doyle and Noah Howard do drive me up the wall sometimes - ironically, both have either been on or put out some of my favorite records, but it's not what they're doing that I like. Weird, huh?

Jazzbo: those were some good two cents.

Yeah, but I want an old Fantasy hoodie, too!

I hear you, but I'm just playing the card. I will say that it could as much as a rock band like Sonic Youth does, or Zappa did, however. Mingus, had he been treated a little better by companies like Columbia and Atlantic, probably could have been more of a household name than he is, don't you think? I know I'm derailing this a bit, but it's interesting to think why someone who took as many chances as Miles did is _everywhere_ while a lot of similarly adventurous music with the chance to be on major labels, is not. I think the answer is probably in how mercurial a lot of artists are that they couldn't "get there," part of it anyway, but to me this question does lead us into that murky debate of "why isn't this music we love more popular?" If I heard "Ghosts" on cellphone ringtones, I'd be fired-up. Don't know about the rest of y'all, but...

Good question - I have a few of them, too, and they do sound fine. I always assumed fold-down, but I'm not sure.

This is an interesting debate. I mean, David Ware's music is pretty unequivocally 'out,' but he certainly has the personality to sell himself. Too bad that short-lived deal with Columbia didn't work; I mean, that music could have moved some units. Maybe not Miles units, but some units for sure. He just didn't get the right "push" on top of his own drive and charisma.

Presenting Burton Greene was on Columbia, actually, and was balanced between free and somewhat filmic, almost 'pop' tunes.

Peter Lemer - Local Colour - (ESP-Disk') great and rare British free jazz with an early appearance by John Surman, as well as George Khan and drummer Jon Hiseman (Colosseum). Lemer plays piano, and was also with the Spontaneous Music Ensemble for a brief period. Lemer reminds me of a more tonally ambiguous Don Freidman, FWIW.

Or the Frank Lloyd Wright on Caedemon when I'm looking for Frank Wright LPs...

Paul Bley Quintet - Barrage - (ESP original red label mono) - a somewhat odd classic, hearing Carla Bley's compositions played by Marshall Allen and Milford Graves!

I'd say there were a lot of bands as good or better than some of the Miles groups, especially of the '60s, so I think a lot of it would have to do with marketing and availability of the music. But why him? I mean, what if Columbia pushed the Burton Greene Quartet as much as it did Miles' records in '67 or '68? Presenting Burton Greene might be in some ways more interesting musically than Nefertiti - and the former does have some 'inside,' almost populist moments to it also (read: radio-friendly), so why not? Or, for that matter, Atlantic/Vortex could've pushed the hell out of Byard Lancaster, but they probably did not. Then there's Impulse and the Albert Ayler sides starting with Love Cry, on which there are a number of short, playlist-ready tunes that "anyone can hum." But I digress... I suppose Miles' popularity might've started with the Gil Evans sides, which certainly would've appealed to the fascination with big bands and orchestral jazz, as Allan implied earlier, but his appeal certainly has to go beyond that. Certainly there were pop and rock records selling well then, so the advent of "rock" certainly didn't have to be the reason behind the alienation of young audiences to jazz, did it? And I would think Miles sold hugely even with the boom in rock music factored in. Again, I wasn't "there," so it's interesting to me how these cards were played during that time.

Wonder if they'll pay up? That seems crazy, but not improbable these days...

That is a nice-looking and very user-friendly discography. Woody Shaw was in Prince Lasha's band intermittently during the mid- to late-80s, as they toured Europe together for a time. I'll try to get the details on exact dates and personnel from Prince, but here are some interview snippets (from my interview with Prince at AAJ) - Last Train to Yugoslavia is a proposed release, not out. "One of the main festivals I did was ‘Prince Meets The Shaw,’ and that will be on Last Train to Yugoslavia. “It’s here, it’s here, Prince meets the Shaw and it’s new.” I did “Nuttin’ Out Jones,” “Oriental Flower” by McCoy Tyner, “Music Matador,” “Church House Blues” by myself, “You Stepped Out of a Dream,” “The Gypsy,” “What’s New,” “Last Trane to Yugoslavia,” and “Two Colors of Bird.” I had Walter Smuggles on bass, Robert De Jarno on piano, Woody Shaw trumpet, my son Prince Lasha on drums and myself on alto and baritone sax. This was in Novosard, Yugoslavia. There was an article called “Seeing Coltrane and Dolphy – Prince Lasha and the Firebirds” about it." and... "When I took Woody Shaw with me on some gigs in Eastern Europe back in ‘88, we played quite a bit with baritone, alto and trumpet, and I had my son on drums, and it was just beautiful. Woody called me ‘Uncle Prince’ all the time, and he thought we should go back to New York with this [band] and see if it went over. Woody had his first gigs with me and Eric [Woody Shaw appears on both Iron Man and Conversations]. I have a CD of this band that I’m going to release as Last Train to Yugoslavia. I played a lot of my own tunes, some standards that Woody called, and “Oriental Flower” by McCoy Tyner [originally recorded on Illumination!]. We played “Gypsy” and “Stardust” and just some beautiful music! I was listening back to it, and I thought ‘is this me or is this Miles and Bird?’ I was listening to it over and over, it sounds so incredible, and it took me way back in time. It’s kind of mystic, because he played his first gig with me, and he passed away when we came back from this tour. But the concert was videotaped as well, and I also videotaped the gig with Odean and I where I got the standing ovation at Yoshi’s. It seems like any time Odean and I get together, something mystical and magical happens!"

Yeah, it looks really good. I've seen the LP on a couple of lists for around $25, which just might be the right price at this point...

I didn't know you had such a nice ass, Ubu!

Haven't seen that guy in a while!

I was gonna do the same thing! Wonder if it was all that sweet potato pie!

That is pretty cheap for the Curson. Did you get the Cecil from James?

In a weird way, sorta classy! Thanks for those!

I paid about a bill for the original, but there is a Japanese reissue that you could get for about $20-$25 I would think.

I've got a Japanese of that one; still trying to get a friend of mine to sell me his original!