Tim McG

could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy... From that same Wiki source: Themes [1] and styles [2] [1] Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture. Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups. [2] Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge". Theme leads to content. Style, however, includes the non-verbal and/or visual aspect to the spoken word. The inflection of the voice, the wry smile, the engagement of the audience, the panache or je ne sais quoi during the delivery of the jokes/punchlines which set this humor apart from other styles. How, one might posit, does anyone verbalize a "critical edge"? I added the delivery aspect to the timing and manner in which the jokes are spoken. There is a certain "laugh-at-yourself" style unique to Jewish-American Comedy. Glenn Hirsch has it down pat, IMHO. It's there, you just have to watch and listen. Surely you aren't suggesting all humor/comedians are the same now, are you? Could you see a difference in style between say Larry the Cable Guy or Richard Pryor? If not, then maybe others here can do a better job of explaining than I can. well... if it wasn't crystal clear before, it is now. last straw and certainly not worth any more energy/time. peace out goodspeak... Hm. Not sure what you mean here, but hey...no offense intended, Thedwork.

Off topic, sorta...I was lucky enough to watch Nolan Ryan throw a no-no while he was with the Angels. Again, I feel you. I was born the year the Giants won the WS in 1954 only to wait a lifetime before watching them win it all in 2010. Your guys will get there. Trust me.

Same here. But then I don't get Equestrian, either. The Olympics are for human feats of athletic endeavor, yes? I mean, the horse does all the work and the rider is given the medal...?

could you describe it for us? ...there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO. Three Stooges Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks etc... i personally don't see that as a list that shows any type of singular style of comedy. as matter of fact, i see that as showing just the opposite: there is so much stylistic variation in that list as to show that there is not a "typical" Jewish style of humor. sure they may all be Jewish but... it's like saying there's a typical Black style of playing jazz saxophone and then listing Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Anthony Braxton, Kenny Garrett, Dewey Redman, and Joe McPhee to prove the point. interestingly, the wiki link you provided that you say "gives a fairly good definition of the style," says virtually nothing about style. here's the entirety of what it says on the subject: Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups... Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge" from my experience, all of the things listed there - insult jokes, wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, "critical edge" - are simply elements of most good comedy performers/writers arsenal no matter what their background. ok, maybe not insult jokes... but seriously, who in their right mind thinks that "wit" and "verbal skills" are found mainly in Jewish comedy and not all good comedy?! it's absurd. the little wiki article also says this: "Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture." this is definitely true, but that stuff is content, not style. anyone can feel free to see that as a semantic point. but you'd be wrong. content is definitely not style. it may contribute to it, but it's not it. not by the longest shot. i think there are things that many Jewish comedians (but by not by any means all...) generally share in terms of content but not necessarily style. and even some of those content things are not as specific to Jewish comedy as one may initially think. take, say, the wiki example of "Anxiety of living as a minority in America." ok. Jewish comedians certainly joke/write about that. but so do Black comedians. and i assume so do Hispanic comedians. and i can think of a bit off the top of my head that Bill Burr does about being the White minority in Harlem. it's not only a Jewish thing. or the 1st thing the wiki article lists as a Jewish theme: "[Their] heritage." ALL comedians use their heritage for material. and since certain styles and contents aren't only Jewish, it doesn't seem right to me to call them "Jewish Comedy." all that being said, i'd assume that there are some things in some Jewish stand-up and comedy writing that are somewhat unique (but not exclusive) to Jewish performers/writers. maybe a certain intellectual underpinning? but i dunno 'bout that. i wouldn't necessarily hold Adam Sandler and Judd Apatow up as intellectual humorists. and i'd also certainly say there are plenty of non-Jewish comedians who are quite "intellectual" - Bob Newhart comes to mind. maybe incorporating content on psychotherapy is pretty Jewy (though of course i just mentioned Newhart...). but yeah, that's it. joking about seeing your shrink. totally Jewy... From that same Wiki source: Themes [1] and styles [2] [1] Some common themes among American Jewish comedians include their heritage as Jews, experience of living between two worlds (ethnic and mainstream), anxiety of living as a minority in America and the foibles of American culture. Jewish comedy has often featured ridicule and insult jokes, including insulting other minority groups. [2] Characteristics of comedians include wit, verbal skills, self-mockery, and a "critical edge". Theme leads to content. Style, however, includes the non-verbal and/or visual aspect to the spoken word. The inflection of the voice, the wry smile, the engagement of the audience, the panache or je ne sais quoi during the delivery of the jokes/punchlines which set this humor apart from other styles. How, one might posit, does anyone verbalize a "critical edge"? I added the delivery aspect to the timing and manner in which the jokes are spoken. There is a certain "laugh-at-yourself" style unique to Jewish-American Comedy. Glenn Hirsch has it down pat, IMHO. It's there, you just have to watch and listen. Surely you aren't suggesting all humor/comedians are the same now, are you? Could you see a difference in style between say Larry the Cable Guy or Richard Pryor? If not, then maybe others here can do a better job of explaining than I can.

But isn't being a "typical" Dallas Cowboys fan a bad thing? Just sayin'.

I sure hope this lays to rest any other complaints from the fans of the Canadian Women's Soccer team relative to a "fix" of some sort: Source: No penalty called on cheap shot to the head. Just sayin'.

Well...I did say it was a short list, Jim. I love Myron Cohen, too :-) Here are a few more comedians I think typify the genre: Rodney Dangerfield Madeline Khan Shelley Berman Then, of course, there's the Marx Brothers and the Three Stooges. Classic stuff, IMHO.

Be glad you didn't have Zito for 8 years. Could be worse.

could you describe it for us? Being a mere Gentile I wouldn't do it justice. But there are several comics you might want to watch who, IMHO, exemplify that style of humor. It is a style or manner of delivery of the lines which are unique to Jewish humor. A short list: Glenn Hirsch Jerry Seinfeld John Stewart Mel Brooks [more of a writer than comedian] Marty Feldman Gilda Radner Woody Allen Louis Nye Carl Reiner Mort Sahl George Burns Some were more edgy like: Andy Kaufman Lenny Bruce Lewis Black To down right silly: Milton Berle Jack Benny Sid Ceasar Bottom line: There is a definable delivery style of the lines and of the types of humor that sets it apart from strictly ethnic humor or country humor as two examples. A Wiki source, but gives a fairly good definition of the style, I think: Jewish-American Comedy

A Jewish Comedy style...you bet there is! Stand-up comics have been doing that schtick for decades.

Ooooo, I detect an ongoing "oh yeah, well my team sucks more" battle with the Mariner fans here. (Insert laughing/crying emoticon here). Somebody is going to finish 4th, which finally won't be last place in the AL West! Well, maybe the "new" team will ramp up the competition a bit. I mean, in the AL West, there are three bonafide teams and as I have seen happen in the NL West it often makes everyone play better. Salary/player dumps notwithstanding. Sorry Quincy.

My Astros are 36-73, dead last in Major League Baseball. For the second year in a row. There's maybe one player on the team that would even be tradeable at this point (Jose Altuve), but I believe he's who they're hoping to build around. It's gonna be 3-4 years before they're even competitive if they're lucky, and oh by the way they're also switching to the AL, involuntarily. So the need a DH. Don't really have any bats on the team. Nor any decent pitchers. Baseball isn't much fun to watch for an Astros fan. Bring on football! I feel your pain, Aggie. It isn't any fun to watch your guys do poorly. Problem is, as a Niners fan, I had nothing to look forward to after the baseball season was over for years [8 during the last slump]. Hang in there. Maybe moving to the AL next season will bring better results for Houston.

Cain is struggling against the Cards. Good news is AZ lost. Now we can only hope the Rockies can actually play baseball against the oh-so fan popular Dodgers at "sold-out" Chavez Ravine. Just look at all those fans. Amazing, isn't it? Yep. Breaking attendance records even as I type. Wow!

Yike! Are things that bad, SS1? Good luck with the Browns this year!

Never mind. Sorry I even bothered trying to have a discussion with you. My bad. OK?

In present day, which is what my earlier remark was referring to, it is fairly obvious LA ceased being a baseball town years ago. It is clearly a basketball town now. If those Dodgers games of the last 7-8 years are sell-outs they sure invited a lot of empty seats. Corporations buying up rows of seats is not quite the same thing as putting people in those seats. I think even you would agree. In San Francisco, however, people actually come to the games. Disallowing for the yuppie trash which show up late after a few beers across the street only to leave well before the start of the 8th inning. Besides, the LA Colusseum is just a tad larger than Dodger Stadium...almost twice as big. The seats were cheap, too. ATT holds around 42,000 people so, obviously, being a larger venue in Cavez Ravine, those corporate bought seats will naturally ramp up the attendance numbers. But as we have discussed in the Politics forum, corporations are not people, so it all comes down to numbers crunching. Still not warm bodies in the seats; people just don't show up. The Staples Center, OTOH, is a packed house every night for the Lakers. BTW, the Giants are playing in front of sell-out crowds and at ATT Park [pretty much since the ballpark opened back in 2000]...not Candlestick. That would be the 49ers. Those games are sellouts, too.

Hope it's a great day!

Let the record show, Thedwork had the issue here. I, however, hijacked nothing. But, if you insist upon providing a hotel room, I'd kinda like to see New York. Book a 4-Star for my wife and me, OK? A week would be fine. I'll pay the airfare.

Goody...did somebody say Goody? Well, all righty then

Good point. And where I certainly appreciate that 2010 WS win for the Giants and feel for those fans whose teams haven't won the WS, I cannot discount the countless YEARS of suffering especially with those [hated] Dodgers fans nipping at my heals....year after year after goddamed year. Grrrr In short: Fuck the Dodgers and anything associated with that hateful team and it's legion of fans who don't even have the respect of a storied baseball history to even fill the seats. Um...just sayin'

Been there. Done that. No fun. I've seen enough bad baseball to last me two lifetimes.

Trading two outfielders(one of which that will be a FA in two months) is not "blowing up" the team. Why get rid of Pence? Are you serious? He's a good complimentary player that is getting paid star money - $10M this season and he's eligible for arbitration next year(estimates are $13-15) That's a lot of coin for a player that can't field, throws like a girl, strikes out too much, is terrible with RISP, and doesn't know how to run the bases. But hey he's got a TON of energy. The Phillies are getting Schierholtz (who always comes up with a clutch hit vs. the Phillies it seems), the Giants # 2 overall prospect , a young arm, and most importantly they get to dump salary. I like it. I don't think Lee was ever seriously on the market. That was just Amaro messing with the media's heads. Maybe soemthing will happen in the off season but it all depends upon Halladay's health. The Phillies don't need to rebuild, just reload. Get a third baseman that can hit for power and field, grab Michael Bourn, and do something about the BP. Big "to do" list but not impossible. I think you are forgetting your team has had no offense to support Pence this year. Last 3 years with runners on, .309, with RISP, Pence is hitting .301 http://espn.go.com/m...g3/hunter-pence Who lead the team in HR's , RBI's and hits? Pence. He shouldn't be a clean-up hitter, but he has had to be this season. Pence may throw like a girl(then what does Juan Pierre throw like? ) but that girl usually gets outs with her arm, at least in past years http://www.nj.com/ti...ure_outfie.html It just seams to me the Phils really need offense. If this frees up a bit of money to sign some guys, great...but the offense sucked before the trades...and I am seeing they got guys like a AA catcher. No 3rd basemen? No LF, CF, RF?? Ain't gonna get Michael Bourn , braves can actually afford him since we won't be spending money on Zack Greinke or Asshole Dempster in 2013(Hey, hope he's great with the Rangers, Rangers fans, but still a dick and a half!) Let's look at Pence's 2012 #s - Yeh he gives you a power bat but not when you need it the most. With RISP he was hitting a meager .238 with the Phillies. Hasn't done any better since the trade - now his avg. w/ RISP is down to .227. Yes he was leading the team in HRs & RBIs but that 's bc Howard missed 1/2 the season and his RBI total was just 2 more than Chooch even though he played in 6 more games. Also it's interesting that you use the Outfield Runs Saved stat. His numbers in that category have been declining the each year since 2009 and this season he's currently at a -6. Not a good trend. Also check out this little tidbit.. "Both players(Victorino and Pence) rate poorly in a specific defensive metric -- Plus/Minus on balls hit to the deepest part of the ballpark. Victorino is last among major league outfielders with a -23 on deep balls this season, and he and Michael Saunders are the only are the only players worse than Pence, who’s tied with three others at -17. " Can't wait to see how he fares in that crazy RF in SF. Like I said before he's a good player, not an elite player and while he's not getting Jayson Werth dollars(cough) he is getting overpaid this year and will get even more next season. He's getting paid more than some MLB team's entire outfield this season. I still think he can turn his season around though. He had a really good August/September after the trade last season. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery. Stats don't tell the whole story, JH. Because if we are to believe them, the Giants should be bottom feeders this year and never should have won the WS in 2010. Guess what.....

Um...sure. Try de-cafe. Just sayin'.

I sincerely hope that Ramirez, Lee and Vitorino take a permanent dump on the [hated] Dodgers. You mean you didn't enjoy today's game? Aarrruuugghhh!!! No. Ha! You should talk to my mother, her text to me this morning: "Giants suck" I'm not too happy about it either, JETman.

Yeah you did, Pete. We have already gone around on this notion that a person can claim to be atheist but not claim he is Jewish. Disclaimer: Does not include various religious orthodoxy, selective reasoning, self-delusion, heart mummer, gout, low blood pressure, seborrhea, gonorrhea, diarrhea, black lung, hasty decisions, foot fungus, COPD, ED, CD, intestinal blockage, brain drain, possible rain or low self-esteem. Your mileage may differ. Batteries not included. Not sold in stores.