Steve Reynolds

I'm going to listen/watch later I'm going to try to see this quintet next time they play as I love Peck/Gerstein and Rainey is always interesting on drums.

I loved this. My wife used to be scared by the Cecil Taylor when I might play the "band" sections of One To Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye somewhat loud through the speakers. She would hear Keith Rowe with Burkhard Beins and think of trash compactors until the Son of a Preacherman shortwave captures appear through the metallic onslaught. So over the years she's heard a bit of a wide range of in, out and in between. So about 5 years ago, she decides to come along to a live show. I choose carefully as she was very wary of the squeaky, screaming cacophonous saxophones. Afraid of the tenor, I guess. So I chose a tenor (!!!) with organ and drums which was Ellery Eskelin with Gary Versace and Nasheet Waits She wasn't initially thrilled with the tenor live either, bit after the second set, she told Nasheet he should be on Leno! She still doesn't love the records, but she loves drummers, pianists (Cooper-Moore and Craig Taborn amaze her - and now Lucien Ban joins her top shelf list) - she likes trumpet and trombone - she loves Ben Gerstein and loved Ray Anderson the two times she's seen him live. What about the screaming tenor? Two musicians turned her around: Tony Malaby despite his sometimes supposed severe approach as she's stayed for enough second sets to adapt her ears and allow a seemingly foreign or obtuse approach to become somewhere closer to normal. After the nth time seeing him in different bands, she hears something besides the supposed severe approach. She thinks he's the greatest. She's more bullish on Tony than I am as far as seeing him live. She's mad that Open Loose is playing tomorrow night and we have a birthday party to go to instead. And the other is Edward "Kidd" Jordan who she has seen twice and she heard heart, soul and energy and she never complained that he was too much. And is there any tenor player as MUCH as Kidd?!?! So not converted, but it does show that the most avant-garde music is great LIVE if the music/musicians are actually great.

For many years, I've said with the *great* Don Van Vliet not enshrined nor seemingly ever even considered, the place doesn't exist to me. I've never watched a second of any of it - ever. You got ears, you gotta listen

Btw - I am still irritated that there was no Ingrid or Mat last Saturday night. I know Mat knocks my socks off every time and I think Ingrid is getting there.

Sounds awesome

true, and of course Bird, Gene Ammons etc are & always will still be awesome; if there are folks who can achieve even significant % of their brilliance/sound/technique... But I keep thinking of the big bands, and arrangers*, composers and the capable musicians who are not heard at what could be better/best.. Not to quash anyone's enthusiasm (really) but when a guy like Tony Malably is touted as some great 'risk taker'... Or that ** anyone ** ever got laid inviting someone to listen to their "Sun Bear Concerts" box... true, it mght as well be useful for fucking something but... *Ralph Burns --> At least learn to spell his name correctly Tamarindo 10/24 & 10/25 @ Cornelia Street Cafe With Michael Formanek & Nasheet Waits I see the guy live often and because of that my enthusiasm only grows. Of course YOU know they can't compare to the artists of the past and I imagine you wouldn't go see them live to see if you might be wrong. Maybe you might want to stop comparing and open your ears to what they are playing. Your beef sounds personal. I really would love to know why the current great players are not great according to you. Or who are the current great improvisors? Is Evan Parker any good? Last time, you took off and hid after you criticized the way Malaby dressed of all things. You didn't like his shirt if I recall correctly. Months later, you take another cheap shot at a great musician. Not a risk taker? Based on what? When is the last time you've seen him play live? Don't you live locally? Do you have a name or are you hiding behind your moniker? I'll be there on the 25th. Hope to see you there.

I have most of the AMM of which I am a huge fan of, especially the stuff with Tilbury and Rowe. I have a few of the others - but not the trios with Tom Chant Fwiw the duo CD with Prevost/Schlippenbach is wonderous Bummer... still looking forward to hearing it, will probably benefit from the slightly lowered expectations (although, having said that, i wasn't expecting a mind blower, but still). I heard the group, it's fantastic. I haven't heard the record, but I expect it to be be just as good. Not just being a fanboy, or if I am, its OK, because it seems justified here. Nothing wrong with being a fanboy, and I like all the artists involved in this group. There are some great tracks, but again, there are some fair to middling as well. It just feels like there's a limited bag of tricks that they play here, whether by design or otherwise. Like they are being challenged and can only give one kind of answer. I was disappointed, given the expectations. I wouldn't be surprised if they kill it live. I was irritated I wasn't at either of the two nights last week.

All this talk has me wanting to buy both boxes and half the matchless catalogue while I'm at it

I wonder if Prevost is playing the trap set. One of the reasons why I need to get those Meetings with Saxophonists is that I understand Eddie is that he plays actual drums on those recordings.

Rub it in Maybe they have had to restock it. Got it. Order placed today I did also Discography back to correct regular pricing today. I'm waiting on mine to ship (hoping, I guess)

I did once see KV with Lytton and Lovens and it was a disaster. Granted it was maybe 12-14 years ago, but it didn't come close to working Exactly my thought as well. The trio with Prevost and Tibury seems incongruous, but it hopefully would reveal a different side to KV. I like what Prevost has been doing in his "Meetings with Remarkable Saxophonists," and his meeting with Yarde, I thought, was pretty engaging. I'm not too shocked therefore that he and Vandermark have hooked up. I'm still making my way to order those sets. BUT a disc with Tilbury is a whole other deal. This is KV with AMM for all intents and purposes. Maybe I'm off base, but I can't imagine this being a good match.

I happen to think KV excels in groove based situations I could be wrong but a series of duets even with those fine musicians doesn't interest me all that much I'm afraid to hear the two trios. Again, small form detailed improvisation from KV, for me, is not what I'm looking to hear from him

The DKV is a must for me. Great price this time as mentioned above

Band changed No Ingrid and No Mat Christopher Hoffman on cello makes it a quartet. Trying to deal with lower expectations

Those look like bad seats. :) Going to see The Cookers tonight. BTW I'm a little disconcerted by the reaction to some of the Clean Feed CDs earlier in this thread. For some (many) of us these may be the only way to hear these musicians at all. Better the CDs than nothing IMHO. Not meaning to be a downer for those who don't have the opportunity to see some of these musicians live. My one point might be that it is sometimes a bit of a shame that some of the recordings (not all on clean feed - as they did a good job on both Tamarindo recordings - not the one with Wadada - that is an obvious example of a blatent recording issue) don't capture the muddy as well as they could. I often give the example of Rodrigo Amado's Searching for Adam as an example of how it's done right. I may never get a chance to see him live but I have opportunities to see the other 3 musicians often - and this recording captures Cleaver and Hebert very close to what they sound like live. One other point - there are people who do have the opportunity to see these musicians live (although it might take some effort and commitment) and I and simply trying to express how awe inspiring it sometimes can be to experience this music when it comes off great in a small little room. Maybe trying to inspire those who could step out and make that extra effort to get to see some of this music live. People often say they wish they were there when and I often have felt that as well.....but Giants Do Walk This Earth Today Still........ Coming Down the Mountain

Mysterious, ambiguous, and enigmatic also describes Capricorn Climber. I think Kris Davis writes more interesting music, fwiw. Then again, my mind is still affected by that live Anti-House show when they didn't meet MY expectations!!! I am hesitating bringing a friend who is just a bit familiar with avant-garde or free jazz. Tim Berne or Tamarindo would be a much more apt live introduction to this broad range of music we are discussing

Rub it in Maybe they have had to restock it. Got it. Order placed today

Bev: *I* understand what I'm writing about!! As far as anyone else, it is up to them. I believe it is a very helpful tool for me to try to express myself about what I see and hear. Certainly much of it is simply an impression. It is very challenging not being schooled in music and never playing an instrument to even try. I'm sure my results are better than what they were 15 years ago when it was ALL fanboy rantings!!! The music which is different then more mainstream jazz or not purely free improvised music is often the most exciting to try to explain as I am trying to find out a little bit of what they are doing. The best aspect of this is that a good amount of the music being played near me (in NY), that I am interested in, is this "in between" music. It often defies categorization which ends up being a very good thing. Check out the recent pointofdeparture.org and go to the review of the recent Tamarindo CD. This is the best analysis if this band that I have read

Thanks for stating that. I sure think she has improved Tom's attitude! Leeway - On a serious note, maybe there is some truth to all of it. I was NOT taken in right away by Laubrock. The SECOND time I saw her was in the Spring of 2011 with Halvorsen and Rainey and I was floored by the trio - but it was still mostly Rainey as he was exceptionally awesome that night. That was also the FIRST time I saw Mary and for me, I was stunned by what I heard from her. So I'm sure they are all learning and building on each other and it will be at some point in the future to look back and maybe realize a bit more what was happening. What is thrilling for me is to be right in the middle of it - at least more than most - happy to get to the shows I'm able to get to.

I don't think she sounds like Malaby in the least nor is her approach at all similar. I'm not yet impressed by her soprano playing but I'm rarely impressed by anyone's soprano playing outside of the usual well known great soprano players. I do like that she uses the straight horn as a supplement and doesn't use it when it doesn't need to be used. In that way it would be a similarity to Malaby. Her sound on the tenor is cleaner (or smoother), less aggressive or assertive, and certainly she doesn't go near the limits of sanity as Tony does in the areas of free smaller or very abstract improvisation (some might say he blows right past sanity at times in bands like Paloma Recio - or any band with Ben Monder!!! - or often when he pushes into spaces or areas unknown). IMO, Ingrid is not nearly as adventurous (yet?) as Malaby - then again, very few are nor does Laubrock come near the almost ultra romantic tinge that Malaby veers towards in his balladic or slow playing. She has a much more standard tone and has nowhere near the vocal quality that Malaby has developed. So Tony, Jr?? Not hearing it I'm glad this discussion came up - I will be listening even closer on Saturday night to what I think is the most fascinating band she plays in. This quintet is the most mysterious band I've heard on years. Great ying and yang between sound, space, groove and the thoroughly oblique and she fits in perfect as she has improved as she has played with these musicians who have a bit to much more experience in these sorts of semi-abstract/free improvisation musical areas. Being married to one of the great drummers alive today doesn't hurt, either! Fwiw - I saw Anti-House a couple of years back at Vision Fest and I was thoroughly dissaponted as the compositions were too strenuous inorganic sounding (does that description work?!?!?) and took all the drive and energy out of the band. Halvorsen and Rainey were especially hamstrung by the structures. I kept waiting for the energy level or excitement to happen and I waited the whole hour until it simply ended. Not going back for more. On the other hand, Rainey's trio with Ingrid and Mary is one of my 3 or 4 favorite working units that play somewhat regularly in NYC. A perfect blend of compositional elements (no sheet music both times I've seen them) yet much more than improvisation. In fact, the trio is one of the finest examples of that ultimate balance.

I just switched plans for this Saturday night from the Ches Smith shows to Capricorn Climber which features Ingrid My experience is that he continues to get better and it helps that she is pushed by all the great musicians she plays with very regularly. With this band the last time I saw them in the spring she was NOT overwhelmed by the viola player which is a huge deal. Last time I saw her with Mary Halvorsen and Tom Rainey, she was damn near great.

I'm ordering within an hour or two. Let's see what happens

Mark - Malaby will get you, take you in, and capture your heart, mind & spirit It is simply a matter of time. You will hear the magic one day! Tamarindo, Baby

Maybe but it will never come near the visceral power and sound of being that close on that room and seeing, hearing and feeling it. The drums of guy like Ches Smith when it gets intense is not duplicated or even approximated by the best recording heard on the best system in the world. Some of the stuff shook my bones