Lee Morgan 'Take Twelve'

[Vincent, Paris]

Does anyone on this board own the original LP? I'd like to know when this album (recorded January 1962) was first issued. It might have a © somewhere on it with the year it was released. I checked most of the Down Beat issues from that period but couldn't find it.

Thanks.

Edited July 6, 2004 by Vincent, Paris

[Chuck Nessa]

I don't know the month but Down Beat reviewed it in 1963.

[JSngry]

What's the deal w/copyright dates on LPs anyway? Seems like it only became legal in the early 1970s, but I'ce seen some labels (Atlantic comes to mind) doing it before then. Maybe it was the artwork they were copyrighting?

All I remember is that it was kind of a big deal when the law changed to allow the copyrighting of the actual album, and I'm not sure if I remember that!

[Chuck Nessa]

Copyright, designated by C in a circle covers photos, design and text - P in a circle covers the musical content. That's why you see both on records/cds from the mid '70s on.

[J.A.W.]

This site seems to suggest it was released in 1962. I couldn't find any other release date in my reference books or anywhere else.

[brownie]

This site seems to suggest it was released in 1962. I couldn't find any other release date in my reference books or anywhere else.

The 1962 date refers to the year the session was recorded.

The 'Indestructible Lee' Affinity 1960 mention above the Jazzland album also refers to 1960 as the recording date. The Affinity LP came out in the eighties, I think.

The Goldmine Jazz Albums books list the release date as 1962 but those books are pretty far from being always reliable!

[J.A.W.]

This site seems to suggest it was released in 1962. I couldn't find any other release date in my reference books or anywhere else.

The 1962 date refers to the year the session was recorded.

I guess you're right.

The 'Indestructible Lee' Affinity 1960 mention above the Jazzland album also refers to 1960 as the recording date. The Affinity LP came out in the eighties, I think.

The Goldmine Jazz Albums books list the release date as 1962 but those books are pretty far from being always reliable!

AMG also lists 1962 as the release date at the bottom of this page under "album releases", but they aren't that reliable either...

[mikeweil]

Maybe comparing release dates of other Jazzland releases will help. Click here for a label listing.

Of course this is no proof, but I think it suggests it was released pretty soon after recording; The Johnny Lytle Jazzland 81 was recorded July 1962 and its release probably not delayed.

[couw]

Maybe comparing release dates of other Jazzland releases will help. Click here for a label listing.

Of course this is no proof, but I think it suggests it was released pretty soon after recording; The Johnny Lytle Jazzland 81 was recorded July 1962 and its release probably not delayed.

my thoughts too, but I am by no means a knowledgeable guy here and willing to be corrected.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Take Twelve was reviewed in the March 14, 1963 issue of db.

Unfortunately, Jazzland/Riverside wasn't advertising in db at that point.

You might be helped by knowing the delay from back when they did - in the 12/6/62 issue Riverside was pushing: Go, Mongo! (rec. July 1962); Big Bags (rec. June-July 1962); Jawbreakers (rec. April 1962). Jawbreakers was reviewed in the very same 12/6/62 issue.

Here is some Jazzland data to digest:

963 - Jazz Soul Of Hollywood - rec. October 1961, December 1961, January 1962

964 - reissue

965 - reissue

966 - Heavyweights - rec. December 20, 1961

967 - Nice And Easy - rec. January 29, 1962

968 - reissue

969 - Bearcat - rec. December 28, 1961 & January 10, 1962

970 - March Of The Siamese Children - rec. March 28, 1962

971 - Low Flame - rec. April 4, 1962

972 - reissue

973 - Solar - rec. January 30, 1962

974 - Images - rec. July 1962

975 - In The Bag - rec. May 1962

976 - Tough Tenor Favorites - rec. February 5, 1962

977 - Happy Time - rec. July 18, 1962

978 - Something Big - rec. 1962

979 - reissue

980 - Take Twelve - rec. January 24, 1962

981 - Moon Child - rec. July 5, 1962

982 - reissue

983 - reissue

984 - Recuerdo - rec. July 31, 1962

985 - reissue

986 - reissue

987 - Red's Good Groove - rec. March 22, 1962

988 - reissue

992 - reissue

993 - reissue

996 - reissue

997 - reissue?

1001 - reissue

What does this all mean? Dunno - but while 980 Take Twelve was a late issue, so were 976 and 987, so 980 wasn't the *only* one like that.

Mike

[mikeweil]

What does this all mean? Dunno - but while 980 Take Twelve was a late issue, so were 976 and 987, so 980 wasn't the *only* one like that.

What it means? Never even attempt to read the mind of a jazz producer (i.e. Orrin Keepnews) !

I dare say Keepnews took his time as Morgan was absent from the scene for some time (for known reasons) after the session: The Take Twelve session (January 24, 1962) was framed by others for VeeJay (October 13, 1960) and Blue Note (December 21, 1963) with rather long breaks between them. If a musician cannot promote his album .....

Edited July 6, 2004 by mikeweil

[Michael Fitzgerald]

But the facts (or those that are known) go against this theory-

Morgan was absent from the scene for nigh on a year starting at the end of 1962. He was back around September for a Sunday gig (jam session?) at the Take 3 in NYC.

The March 1963 db review happened at the exact worst time - at that point basically no one had heard from Lee in about four months and no one would be hearing from Lee for another six!

Mike

[mikeweil]

But the facts (or those that are known) go against this theory-

Morgan was absent from the scene for nigh on a year starting at the end of 1962. He was back around September for a Sunday gig (jam session?) at the Take 3 in NYC.

The March 1963 db review happened at the exact worst time - at that point basically no one had heard from Lee in about four months and no one would be hearing from Lee for another six!

This makes the release date even less plausible - or he wanted to make the best of it even if Lee was absent from the scene.

As I said, never attempt to read the mind of ....

[Vincent, Paris]

Take Twelve was reviewed in the March 14, 1963 issue of db.

I missed that one (can't find a complete DB collection in Paris). How was the album rated? As far as I know, Lee Morgan came back to his hometown of Philly in late 1962, and had a band with Jimmy Heath. This quintet played at Birdland November 1962 (cf. Fresh Sound "We Remember You"). After that, I haven't been able to locate a single gig until he came back in NYC during the summer of 1963, at a time when he mostly playing Monday nights gigs. He soon reaffiliated with Blue Note, first recording with Hank Mobley on October 2. Few days before, on September 30, he had played at the annual Gretsch Drum Night at Birland as part of Elvin Jones' pick-up band.

So there's a 6-month period during which he seems to have been pretty down and off the scene, even in Philadelphia. So, as Michael said, issuing this album right in the middle of that period of time wasn't really appropriate.

Thanks everybody for your help.

By the way, Michael, where did you find mention of that September gig at Take 3 club. Pretty interesting...

Edited July 7, 2004 by Vincent, Paris

[Chuck Nessa]

How was the album rated

Richard B Hadlock gives it 3 stars and calls it a "transitional' recording for Morgan.