brownie Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 "DKDC" stands for "Don't Know, Don't Care." I think it was coined by Dan Gould. He also coined another acronym, "NMCOT," which stands for "Not My Cup o' Tea." "HAFC" was coined by yours truly. It stands for "Haven't a Clue." I think the joke's worn thin by now, so I don't think I'll use 'em anymore. A giant thanks, Big Al! (and you too, Couw!). Didn't realize I had to work on my Dangouldese and Bigalese languages. Now that I know what they are and where they come from, I may try and squeeze them in some future posts of mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Maybe it's time for a "Blindfold Test Abbreviations" thread, along with an instruction on how to post that TM sign .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 Maybe it's time for a "Blindfold Test Abbreviations" thread, along with an instruction on how to post that TM sign .... Hold down the "alt" key and type "153". Like this: ™. See how easy that was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 just as easy: type TM between brackets: ( TM ) makes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 AMAZING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man with the Golden Arm Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 so can somebody tell me what standard is being issued amongst the freakin' call to armageddon that is cut #10? it's not Pullen or Shipp or Taylor and I have no idea of the saxophonist having first thought Ware but too high for him(?) (and i am not so familiar w/ Ayler). after having played this really loud (as only it should be) i now see that the elephants have come and tossed the deer off the salt lick in the marsh out back. it is AMAZING . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 the sax on that one (#10) reminds me somewhat of that weirdo Xero Slingsby dude I had on my BFT. Total control, but total wack as well. now asking about the standard is a mean thing to do, as I am biting my nails over this one too... FEGH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 "DKDC" stands for "Don't Know, Don't Care." I think it was coined by Dan Gould. He also coined another acronym, "NMCOT," which stands for "Not My Cup o' Tea." "HAFC" was coined by yours truly. It stands for "Haven't a Clue." I think the joke's worn thin by now, so I don't think I'll use 'em anymore. Can't take credit for NMCOT but I'll definitely lay claim to DKDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 1. Pretty generic opening, I would say. There is a lot of music like this played (mostly in Europe): folk-based (Breton – tango – Balkan –Romanian - Hungarian - whatever), tricky time signature, overly composed and always a bit sterile (and IMO always lose to the “roots” they are derived from – folk music). OK, pretty banal violin solo. The best moment – nice drum sounds during the solo. I would guess this is something from France. Did not inspire me too much. 2. Not bad. Classical training. A bit of Rachmaninov mannerisms, he-he. I assume this is the man who played with Mingus, RRK and others, but for me he is at his best playing solo. If this is him, then this is not one of his most interesting recordings. Otherwise, it could be the guy who hired Ornette, Cherry & Co as his band in late-50s – but then this must be some of his earlier recordings – he’s mellowed a bit. Naaaaaah, does not sound like him too much – I haven’t noticved these up-up-up patterns in his playing and he is not as “smooth”. Most likely my first guess. I like it. Covers a lot of ground in such a short period of time. Oh, could this be the guy whose trio recordings will be reissued soon on Mosaic Select? Yeah, his one is the most likely probably. Does not have too many of characteristic licks (and no blues feeling), though. Yes, yes. And the other guess, that I have to check since I haven’t heard any of his recordings for a very long time – one of the founding AACM guys. Still active as far as I know. Curious to learn about this one. 3. Oh, very “classically” sounding saxophone - very “straight”. Or is it clarinet? IN any case, very ball-less sound. Don’t like it too much –not too interesting compositionally, and improvisations are pretty awkward and without particularly strong ideas, IMO. 4. Hey, here is a saxophone sound I like more! Tenor solo is OK, interesting writing. Altoist I should know – is this the guy who recorded for Columbia a bit and recently recorded on Pi? Not too familiar with his work, but this does not sound experimental enough for him. Good alto solo. Nice baritone. Good. I’ll be most ashamed about not identifying this one. 5. Oh, I like opening like this. Unexpected drums with this steady rhythm. Oh, now I don’t like it too much – cinematic stuff, also French most likely (not that I don’t like French music)… too pretty. Bass and trumpet solos are OK, but nothing outstanding or too original. Nice bass sound – could this be a bassist’s date? 6. Nice. I think this is the guy who’s been there with Tristano and is still going strong. Pianist is interesting, but I don’t know him. My favorite track so far. 7. Live. Good tenor! Well-played, but I am not too fond of this sort of post-bop mainstream material (and I don’t have much of it in my collection). If I am getting it correctly, the tenorist and pianist are already dead, and some of their OOP material will be released soon as Mosaic Select. Bit of course, I am not sure – the tenor is more generic and less passionate, and piano player is less fluid (although good – my favorite musician here). And most importantly the drummer definitely does not sound like this quartet’s drummer - more like Billy Higgins. Hey, could it be Higgins quartet with Bob Berg and David Kikosky (sp?) on piano. I have their disc on Red somewhere – I don’t remember it, but I do remember that I was impressed by this Kikoski guy. Yeah, this is more like it. 8. Bass is too obtrusive and hmm.. direct –tum-tum-tum. I think a piano player like this would benefit from more flexible accompaniment. Bass solo is not elegant at all. The piano is OK. Would have preferred to hear piano solo. 9. Oh, such an improvement in sound qulity. Here we go – a much more interesting bass. I like it a lot. Together with track 6 this is my favorite one so far. Nice ideas from saxophonist! – not too many notes played but all good –and beautiful sound! Awkward arco, but I like it. Looking forward to hearing who it is! I’ll buy this CD (if I don’t have it already, he-he) 10. Bass bass bass!!! Good! Hey, this must be the wild Argentinean man, when he was still wild. Although not too much of Latin American influence. He-he, here we go – a Latin American influence. Unless this is some catch, this is him…although…although the sound is not as wild as The Argentinean produced (not that much of the altissimo scream). In general, gorgeous tenor sound, but otherwise nothing particularly outstanding (improvisations are pretty basic, but this is always the case with The Argentenian). 11. Good contrast to previous tune. Is it two pianists, or I have hearing hallucinations?!?! Nothing much I can say about this one, but I like it! Some Bach-ian feel in it. Good ideas. Tasteful support from bass and drums. 12. Very good. Excellent theme. Quite aggressive piano playing – nice contrast to previous track. Good bass-drummer team. Drummer sounds like Joe Betsch to me, btw. Saxophone solo is OK. Trumpet is nice. Pianist is the most interesting, IMO. And again, a very nice theme – I would be interested to know who the composer is. 13. I like the drummer! DeJohnette? Sounds like musicians have been playing a lot together. Nice bass – Gary Peacock? I would assume this is the famous ECM trio. “Assume” because I don’t think I’ve heard any of these trio’s recordings. Overall OK, but very very safe. 14. He-he, ABBA. I hate ABBA. But this is charming, if not particularly noteworthy otherwise. Nate, thanks for an interesting BFT, that will elad to at least one purchase (track 9). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted July 11, 2004 Report Share Posted July 11, 2004 (edited) okay, here goes... Track 1. tight unisono playing with fiddle and guitar and then bass cl added. Pretty nifty, sounds a lot like some of the recent Italian efforts. The steel guitar is the absolute runner on this one. The fiddle gets a bit in my way at some point, but he steel guitar lifts it all into some lighter, more humourous realm. The freedom that follows the controlled head did not come unexpected, the violin is too much C&W too really fit in with the rest though, and yet my guess is that the fiddler is the leader... The bass cl. reminds me of Actis Dato, nowhere near sure there. Track 2. first one of a lot of piano centred tracks, and those are really not my strong point although I keep learning. The switch between heavy- and light-handedness I like quite a bit here. Same with the unpredictable fast runs and the slower "classic" figures. There are a lot of contrasts in this playing and it is very interesting from that point of view. Too short to really know though... Track 3. pretty tune. The cello is a particularly nice touch. The piano is a little too lazy at times, some original ideas wouldn't hurt much, luckily it steers in later on in the solo. Alto is pretty, Konitz-like style at times, but too short to tell. Cello remains the best ingredient here. Track 4. bam in the face. free-style jump off the cliff with more unisono lines. This reminds me of the Hans Koller big band efforts, like the New York City album. Wild big band with unisono and counterpoint shite flying all over the place and large, dooming solos, hardly contained by the chaos surrounding them. Pretty cool, if the mood'S right They even got a baritone that lets the stuff fly. Woo! Hey tooter, is this a lost Ross recording? Channeling from up above? Track 5. starts of very nice, soprano mutters like I like them. Turns into something I couldn't care less for. I hear it's well played and whatnot, but the whole sound I don't like at all. Very ECM-ish. The (again) unisono lines fit nicely together (if for that dreadful sound) and remind me of Polish stuffs from the 80s. Thinking along that line, this might well be Zbigniew Namyslowski on soprano and why not throw in Gusko on trumpet while we're at it. Track 6. more of the same sound. Not to my liking. More of "those" lines that are nice, but can get on your nerves every now and then; not now though. Way much reverb/echo here. horn sounds like Konitz and I might as well throw in a guess that this is one of his Hat outings. The sound is a bit too nice and too lovely though. Track 7. Epistrophy/Straight No Chaser for some short lines. Off and away on a dash again. I like this a lot, but am lost for words as I am pretty much drawn in by what's going on here. Track 8. more piano, alone together right? nice to cool it down after the fire. as much as I cannot tell one piano player from another, I can tell you that this one does the right things. Very nice performance, not too much, not too little either. Track 9. pretty sure I have this somewhere. drats. very nice sound, very nice playing. Yet another one of those tunes like track 6, but much less retentive in the overall sound. drats, I can't name it! Track 10. see post before. Vint is rigth, this thing is WILD! this dirty down sax rips it apart like splicing fresh melons with a big ass knife. Still don't know the tune, tip of toungue, brain in overdrive, nyegh, nyegh... This is a winner. Gato? Track 11. some whack stuff going on here as far as my limited piano knowledge allows; waitaminute, is this overdubbed? two pianos? song is reminiscent of body and soul, guess that means that thing with the changes. lovely stuff, very pretty. Track 12. starts off with some mighty monkisms to stray off into more of those with horns added. Keeps the monk feel of time, harmony, and melody throughout the piano solo, too close for comfort at times, WTF! ah, luckily loose it towards the end, I was getting awkward all over. Right back atcha in the comping though, it almost makes me want to check my monk collection... Track 13. nice, but nothing more. I don't like the sound, not to blame the musicians for that, but the recording. It sounds so sterile, so thirteen in a dozen, so very 'safe'. Track 14. The Winner Takes it All. AbbA, bleh! Though nice, still a bit over the top I find. Just like many of those Beatles covers by the big and famous jazz artists of the golden age. Thanks, but no thanks. Grumpy and very close-minded of me, I know, but I cannot keep my mind open purposefully this late at night... Thanks a bunch Nate for a very nice BFT experience. I hope I find some time to revisit it soon. edited for spelling Edited July 11, 2004 by couw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Dorward Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 1. Pretty generic opening, I would say. There is a lot of music like this played (mostly in Europe): folk-based (Breton – tango – Balkan –Romanian - Hungarian - whatever), tricky time signature, overly composed and always a bit sterile (and IMO always lose to the “roots” they are derived from – folk music). OK, pretty banal violin solo. The best moment – nice drum sounds during the solo. I would guess this is something from France. Did not inspire me too much. As you can tell Д.Д. is actually my alter ego.... Bass is too obtrusive and hmm.. direct –tum-tum-tum. I think a piano player like this would benefit from more flexible accompaniment. Bass solo is not elegant at all. The piano is OK. Would have preferred to hear piano solo. Well, this bassist is well known for playing like this...... Track 9. pretty sure I have this somewhere. drats. very nice sound, very nice playing. Yet another one of those tunes like track 6, but much less retentive in the overall sound. drats, I can't name it! Yes it's a cover of a classic tune from the 1960s. Or anyway a tune from a classic album--not sure if anyone else other than this saxophonist has covered this tune since the original composer's version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 TRSTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Track 9. pretty sure I have this somewhere. drats. very nice sound, very nice playing. Yet another one of those tunes like track 6, but much less retentive in the overall sound. drats, I can't name it! Yes it's a cover of a classic tune from the 1960s. Or anyway a tune from a classic album--not sure if anyone else other than this saxophonist has covered this tune since the original composer's version. hmm ... I checked my Dolphy, but it is not among these. If it's Jackie Mac, I don't have too much of his albums. Ornette? Too lazy to check. But the tune sounded more like Dolphy to me. More an alto players' tune than a tenor like we have here. I could - or probably am - wrong, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 ??????? TRSTW = This really seems to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Just wanted to prove we really need an abbreviations thread ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 ??????? TRSTW = This really seems to work Danke sehr! Just wanted to prove we really need an abbreviations thread ..... SIPWRNAAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 (edited) SIPWRNAAT De Nada! BTW: Is that Spanish, English or German??? Edited July 12, 2004 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKE BBB Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 SIPWRNAAT De Nada! BTW: Is that Spanish, English or German??? SPANGLISCH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxophone__Vagina Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 just got it, wow, some really interesting songs/styles here, haven't recognized aynthing yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I want to thank Nate for talking me into this one. I really dug most of this disc – I think it may be my favorite BFT in quite some time. Pushing the envelope in places – I suspect more than a few “DNDCs” from some quarters – but I enjoy being pushed. I recognize many of the tunes (or at least I think I do) but nothing too obvious. Anyway, on with the guesses, having not previously read yadda yadda yadda… 1. Hmm… it’s not Grapelli and I don’t think it’s Regina Carter. This really swings! Different, but nice. Is that a weird clarinet as well? Maybe from one of Don Byron’s eccentric albums? Bug Music? I’m too lazy to check right now, but I don’t recall a violin on any of them. The more I think about it the more curious I am… 2. Interesting, modern piano solo. Jason Moran? Possibly Hill or Taylor, but this is more accessible (to me) than a lot of their solo work. 3. Nice and bluesy. Is that a clarinet? No, probably a sax after all. And another violin? I love the moody atmosphere – and the very tentative piano – but it strikes me as a bit “gimmicky” and maybe goes on a tad too long. Listening again, I like this more than the first time, but I can see it get tiresome after a few more spins. Too slow in the long run. 4. David Murray? Maybe from one of those Butch Morris-led big bands that I haven’t spun in a long while. I love these kinds of saxophonists. Lots of passion and fire in their playing, but not too a-g. 5. This sounds downright dull in comparison to the other tacks here. It’s not bad – and again sounds vaguely familiar – but it’s not doing much for me but cleanse the palette between blowouts… 6. Another wonderful sax (bass clarinet?) sound. I’ve grown very fond of these piano-sax pairings lately – I’ve been listening to a lot of Lacy-Waldron – but this ain’t them. I really dig this one. 7. Hmmm. I’m all over the place on this one. I don’t care much for the beginning, but there’s a section in the middle that I really dig. I like the Andrew Hill-Jason Moran style of piano. Could be Cecil Taylor playing “standards.” The sax is wonderful as well. Out there (which I like) but not too far out for my tastes. 8. There’s a familiar tune buried somewhere in here – vaguely”Yesterdays.” Okay. 9. Okay, but no bells are being rung for me. 10. Damn! Love the passionate sound of that sax! Sounds like Gato, and the tune has more of a Latin groove while he’s playing. The song sounds familiar, but I can’t place the title. I’d buy this one for a dollar! 11. Nice change-up to a slow, quiet number. Is that a bowed base buried in the mix? I like this but it goes on a bit too long. 12. Okay, but doesn’t send me despite the Monk-ish arrangement. 13. I had problems with this and track 14 playing on my CD player at home. It froze up after track 12. But it plays (mostly without error) on my box at work. And I’m glad it does. Damn, this is very familiar tune but I’m having a brain fart. I’m pretty sure I have this. Jarrett trio? No, too much Jarrett on recent BFTs and there’s none of his trademark humming. Corea or Hancock trio playing some standard (don’t worry; it’ll come to me…) Nice sound… 14. Man, and I got shit for the Metheny-Haden duet on my BFT? I might have said this was Metheny as well, but I don’t recognize it as one of his and, later in the track, it doesn’t sound much like him after all. I love those swishy drum brushes. Really sets the mood. Nice bass sound as well. Heck, could this be the recent Metheny-Grenadier-Stewart trio after all? I recognize the tune, but again can’t come up with it. But damn this is lovely stuff. If I don’t already have it, I want it. Great BFT! Thanks again, Nate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Just reread Nate's intro comments again and realize that I'm probably dead wrong on all my guesses since most of the guys I mentioned are pretty well-known. Hmmm... now I'm more curious than ever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 Having read only the first two pages so far, I find it funny that so many people don't have a clue who these cats are. They seem so obvious to me... with the only problem being that I'm surely wrong... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannonball-addict Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 I think from repeated listens Track 2 must be Muhal Richard Abrams. I can't imagine who would be so articulate yet so succinct. And yeah 10 is definately Gato. But I would consider him well-known due to his feature on Calle 54. I went to one of his shows a year or two ago and people were going crazy. I didn't know what the big deal was. All the guy does these days is hum and overblow his horn. He has lost a lot of technique since the 70s. It is quite ridiculous the way he goes "Heyyyyyy!" with the reverb. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjobbe Posted July 14, 2004 Report Share Posted July 14, 2004 sorry Nate for joining the discussion so late, but I struggled (and still do so) with the balance between work and the rest of my living, not allowing me too much of private life (and unfortunately not listening to much music), but I put your BT14 into my CarCDP and try to get track by track there... you know what fuzzles me is that the only track (#14) I immeadiately identified is the ABBA one (Winner takes it all), but what does that say about my personal taste... ... anyway... will give it a thorough try tonite and report my findings... Cheers, Tjobbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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