Alfred Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 It is funny to see a lot of people selling their domestic or Japan Blue Notes on eBay or jazz boards in order to buy the new thing – the next edition series of a CD remastering. The first collection of Blue Note TOCJ are from the early & mid 90'ies, then the JRVG appeared in 1998, the US version followed in 1999 and now the TOCJ-6XXX hits the market. (Let's forget the SACD & DVD-A story. They are dead right from start!) I bought a lot of JRVG and was more disappointed than happy with them. Should I switch to the new TOCJ-6XXX series or go back to the older TOCJ???? NOPE, mates! Within the last two years I invest more and more of my money in good old vinyl and can recommend it to anybody. The sound of original pressings is beyond everything. We all know that. But even GXK's from KING or most TOCJ-vinyl from Toshiba are (by far) better than any CD edition ever produced. Hopefully the vinyl hype will end at some point in the near future because prices for vinyl are beginning to go crazy. Hmmm… I'm not the only one with this opinion, I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 I'm not the only one with this opinion, I think! Nope ! B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Preachin' to the choir. For the price of Japanese CD's you can get the best, all analog vinyl re-issues. Many have all the qualities I love from vinyl. That same $30 can get you many originals(not many BN's) of great jazz. The trick, in any format, is to know what you are getting, a predictability if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 The sound of original pressings is beyond everything. We all know that. But even GXK's from KING or most TOCJ-vinyl from Toshiba are (by far) better than any CD edition ever produced. What about the price? I guess those LPs cost 2-4 times as much as a RVG CD. People selling their TOCJ CDs is actually a good thing for those (like me) who prefer those remasters. My limited experience with JRVGs was mostly negative too. Most current RVGs are good but TOCJs have a fuller, less bright sound. If Rudy could tame that excessive brightness on cymbals thje RVGs would be really great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 This looks like a good place for my question: BMG has two reissues of Wes Montgomery Incredible Jazz Guitar; one, I guess, is the original Riverside cd, and the other is the SACD. What's the better choice, sound-wise? Price doesn't really matter, as I can get the SACD for a steep discount. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 (edited) As far as digital formats are concerned, this album is available on the regular OJC CD (late 80's remastering), K2 20Bit CD and SACD. I don't have any of them, but the comments I've read on the SACD were not enthousiastic. The tapes seem to be in rather bad shape. Steve Hoffman, who has reissued a couple of Wes albums during the mid 90's for the DCC label, refused to remaster this one for that reason. I have a Wes compilation from Fantasy, which is from the late 80's and probably has the same remastering as the original CD versions. The tracks from the "Incredible jazz guitar" album are those that sound worst. So I guess none of the digital versions sounds good. Edited July 24, 2004 by Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe G Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolff Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 So I guess none of the digital versions sounds good. The analog version is no picnic, either. Poor recording from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 So I guess none of the digital versions sounds good. The analog version is no picnic, either. Poor recording from the get go. I'd rather say poor tape quality and storage and/or handling, as this was re-released often. I remember a down beat review expressing disappointment with the overall sound, although an improvement was audible. Those Riverside sessions where the tapes are in prime condition sound great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Even back in vinyl days, many Riverside releases had problems. Sound was just not as good as on the Contemporary, Blue Note, Prestige, etc... releases. The presence, the dynamics were not there. And when the Japanese started to reissue the classic albums on superb vinyls, most of the reissues from the various labels turned out to be excellent. Except for a very large numbers of the Riverside reissues. Even on a majority of those Japanese Riverside LPs, the sound was dull. I bought the Wes Montgomery Riverside 'The Incredible Jazz Guitar' when it came out. Sound was a bit lifeless. I know some Riversides (the Monks, the Bill Evans...) had good sound but way too many missed the brilliance of the engineering from the other labels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.A.W. Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Even back in vinyl days, many Riverside releases had problems. Sound was just not as good as on the Contemporary, Blue Note, Prestige, etc... releases. The presence, the dynamics were not there. And when the Japanese started to reissue the classic albums on superb vinyls, most of the reissues from the various labels turned out to be excellent. Except for a very large numbers of the Riverside reissues. Even on a majority of those Japanese Riverside LPs, the sound was dull. I bought the Wes Montgomery Riverside 'The Incredible Jazz Guitar' when it came out. Sound was a bit lifeless. I know some Riversides (the Monks, the Bill Evans...) had good sound but way too many missed the brilliance of the engineering from the other labels. You're absolutely right. I would not rate Prestige and Blue Note nearly as high as Contemporary, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrdlu Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 People selling their TOCJ CDs is actually a good thing for those (like me) who prefer those remasters. My limited experience with JRVGs was mostly negative too. Most current RVGs are good but TOCJs have a fuller, less bright sound. If Rudy could tame that excessive brightness on cymbals the RVGs would be really great. I really agree with that. I don't dislike all the JRVGs and RVGs, but the "Blue Note Works" TOCJs are the benchmark for me, and I don't recall hearing a bad one. I think they should be preserved as the definitive BN CD reissues. It would be great to see them made available again. Meanwhile, like you, I have gratefully picked up a few of them on eBay, several for only about $10 or so. For anyone who does not know this TOCJ series, try to get the 4 albums with Grant Green, Larry Young and Elvin Jones in this format. They are terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_forumlogo.png.a607ef20a6e0c299ab2aa6443aa1f32e.png)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.