BFT #19 Discussion

[Dmitry]

First of all, I will be surprized if the collective will recognize all of the tracks on this BFT; some of them are just too obscure, imo, but deserving a listen nevertheless.

I will be watching from the sidelines and will be giving hints as we move along, to make it more interesting and more involving.

..Rack 'em!

[Big Al]

I'm almost ashamed to admit that the bulk of the tracks lost my interest somewhere about two minutes into them; I'm interested in seeing other people's guesses, and hoping that I can find something to latch onto.

Two tracks I knew, but I had to listen to them a few times to remember them:

Track 1: I knew the tune, so it was a matter of figuring out who does a jazz version of it. The recording quality is so nice, I thought it was something recent. In fact, on first listen I thought it might be from Hubert Laws latest. Some digging reveals that it's actually track 8 from this album. To be honest, I would never have guessed these guys. I definitely need to check this one out!

Track 9: This is the 2nd BFT in a row to feature a song by a certain artist whose CD (which this song came from) I used to have. I never learn. Had to search this one out as well; for though I knew the player, I couldn't remember the album. But, alas, it's the title track from this album. I don't remember this album making much of an impression on me (or maybe just not living up to the hype), but I do remember enjoying this track the most!

[tooter]

I haven't read Big Al's comments - the only one when I looked just now. Don't know much at all but here goes.

1. I like this track. Cannonball came to mind for the alto but not for long. Don't know who they are.

2. Nice guitar solo but I find this heavy off beat drumming offputting - gets tiresome after a while. Don't like the tenor player.

3. Still no positive contribution to make. No idea although I think I detect some familiarity - alto and piano. Like it.

4. NMCOT

5. Very nice indeed. Singers who slide into notes from way off the pitch maybe do so as a stylistic device but to me it often sounds like an inability to pitch. This singer seems to get it right, IMHO, as far as my ears can tell. Very attractive voice too. Great track. Still no idea who though.

6. Ditto - no idea. Quite nice - atmospheric.

7. I like this too but still no clue. The trumpet playing is familiar but I've thought that in previous BFT's when it's turned out to be someone completely unknown to me..

8. At last - one I know. Tune immediately recognised. #4this album

9. Could it be Tjader? Vibes and latin. Quite like it too.

10. Echo doesn't do much for me. No idea who.

Interesting set, Dmitry. I shall watch developments avidly.

[tooter]

Having read Big Al's post:-

1. I should have stuck with my first impression. I've just got the album two days ago but haven't played it yet.

9. I suppose my guess was based, not only on the association I mentioned, but also on the kind of arrangment rather than any familiarity with CT's playing. I like his hard-core jazz but not so much the more commercial stuff - "Jazz at the Blackhawk", "Good Vibes"?

Waiting..

Edited November 6, 2004 by tooter

[MartyJazz]

1) "Matchmaker, Matchmaker" from FIDDLER ON THE ROOF. Very nice version, flute, trumpet, alto, they all cook. Have no idea of the personnel however

3) Is that Konitz?

5) Singer is Jeanne Lee. Pianist is probably Ran Blake, the album being from the early '60s I believe. Got to see her perform back in the mid '70s during the loft scene in NYC. I think she passed away recently.

6) Walt Dickerson? His vibe sound has that profound brooding quality.

Got to listen to the rest of the tracks. Interesting worthwhile disc.

[Dan Gould]

My opinion mirrors that of Big Al - most of these tunes did not engage me very long, I'm sorry to say.

I recognized the melody of track 1 but didn't bother an in depth AMG search. Seeing the ID surprises me just a bit, I guess.

Track 4 - for the life of me I cannot imagine why anyone would find this appealing.

7) and 8) I liked best, but no guesses came to mind.

Thanks for the disc, Dmitry. I just wish I'd found more to dig on it.

[.:.impossible]

01 I really like the three part arrangement. Nice trumpet solo. These guys are really moving. I like how the pianist lays back and lets the bass and drums really move the music along. I don’t recognize the tune, but it sounds like a theme of some sort. The alto sounds like Cannonball Adderley, but he never solos…

02 Big bass sound. It almost sounds electric the way it was recorded. May be a Tzadik recording, based on this and the Near Eastern rhythm and melody. I recognize the guitarist as Marc Ribot once he begins to solo. I didn’t recognize him initially. The tone of his guitar was more anonymous than usual. I’m going to guess that the drummer is Kenny Wolleson.

03 I think I recognize the saxophone as Greg Osby. It sounds like the music on The Invisible Hand. These musicians are so together and the music is very open. Lots of space for improvisation. The drummer is fantastic. I don’t think this is from The Invisible Hand, because the pianist doesn’t sound like Andrew Hill, but the drummer could very well be Terri Lyne Carrington. Lots of cymbals. Whoever it is, they really fill a lot of space, without sounding busy. The way the piano, bass, and drums associate is quite a contrast from the first track. It is just amazing how infinite music really is. Wow, a live recording? Shit, I don’t know.

04 This sounds like a percussionist-led group. It sounds like a super tight piccolo and small bundle sticks. That is a great snare sound. It has such a snap. Like a tap dancer. Man, that cymbal! Its like he’s hitting it with a tube or something. I feel like I’ve heard music like this somewhere before. I can’t place any of the sounds. I like the unique sounds that the drummers have collected. Nice drumming. The audience sure feels it. More of that Near Eastern melody with some Kind of Blue thrown in.

05 This is Jeanne Lee and Ran Blake. Such control and feel. I have this and don’t really have anything else like it. Whenever you throw it in, it takes you there. This track is currently a shoe-in for Gold Medal contention for best track of the Blindfold Test.

06 Awe, the old one-two punch. How can I compete with Walt. He always gets the Gold. What a beautiful intro. I love that small vibrato. Like a fluttering heart. This almost sounds like a Sun Ra tune, but I’m not aware of any Walt Dickerson/Sun Ra tracks that aren’t duet. I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t have this. I’m still a novice with music theory, but it sounds like they are playing in one chord throughout the entire piece, like a suspended chord it sounds like? I played this track over and over again. Thanks for including this Dmitry.

07 Some sage brush work. This reminds me of the music evoked by that William Parker Trio on Painter’s Spring. Substitute the trumpet for Daniel Carter’s reeds. Hell, it could be Daniel Carter on trumpet. I’ve never heard him play trumpet quite like this, but how would I know? This is nice. Must be the Pyramid Trio, but I don’t remember this song. If I don’t have this already, I’d like to hear what else is on that album. Very nice.

08 Finger snappin. I want to say Cannonball again! I’ve heard this tune before, but not this group. I hear a guitarist way back in the mix. I like how they take it out with the bass.

09 Big sound with those swelling trombones. I think this is probably something from the 70s on. Sounds like Bobby Hutcherson’s vibraphone style. Hard to say, I am only familiar with his 60s stuff. Its ok.

10 Intense! Is that a train? Maybe this was recorded in a tunnel. Based on the surface noise, I’d venture to guess that this isn’t something you can buy. It sounds like a private recording. Man, this guy is just pouring it out. He has a big horn sound too. I couldn’t say who. Nice closing track.

Some good stuff Dmitry! I’d like to know more about 06 and 07 for sure.

[Dmitry]

02 ... I recognize the guitarist as Marc Ribot once he begins to solo. I didn’t recognize him initially. The tone of his guitar was more anonymous than usual. I’m going to guess that the drummer is Kenny Wolleson.

....

04.... More of that Near Eastern melody with some Kind of Blue thrown in.

06 ......Awe, the old one-two punch. How can I compete with Walt.  I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t have this.

07 .......Some sage brush work. This reminds me of the music evoked by that William Parker Trio on Painter’s Spring. Substitute the trumpet for Daniel Carter’s reeds. Hell, it could be Daniel Carter on trumpet.

10.......Intense! Is that a train? Maybe this was recorded in a tunnel. Based on the surface noise, I’d venture to guess that this isn’t something you can buy.

2. Close, but not really. This, along with #s 4 and 10 will be the toughest tracks to crack. I'd be surprised if anyone actually did.

4. You got that right. They quote Miles more than a couple of times.

6. You got the players right. You're almost there. It's a must-have recording, imo.

7. Man, you're good. You got Parker, but it's not Daniel Carter on the pipe, but it's one of the NY crew. I'm sure you know him.

10. A hint - it's a member of a well-known European avant-garde [very] small group. Another hint - it's from the soundtrack to a film that got a prize at the Cannes some years ago.

Edited November 7, 2004 by Dmitry

[sidewinder]

No. 6 is a must-have for sure. It's one of my favourite Verve Elites. Track 4 from..This one

[.:.impossible]

Yeah, I went back and listened to the album again today. I can't believe I missed that one. That music is just bliss for me. Still Dmitry, I guess I was hoping you were holding out on me and had an unreleased session or something.

I knew exactly who I was listening to, which is more than I can say for the most of the rest of the tracks!

[Jim R]

1. Matchmaker. Lovely intro, and some nice reharmonization.. Very “together” feeling all the way through. It flows nicely, IMO. This has what I really like in jazz- a familiar melody that hasn’t been played to death (although I have it by Wes, and Cannonball, and have heard other renditions recently... Eric Alexander, for example), interpreted with taste and imagination. I like just about everybody on this- and particularly the rhythm section (dig that Miles “someday my prince...” vibe). I don’t know this version, but I would (and I may) buy this.

2. Uh-oh... 10+ minutes long, and nothing about the opening minute is attracting me very much. This reminds me of a lot of the material we had on a BFT a few months ago (can’t recall which one) which was largely long, slow, meandering stuff like this. I would find this boring to play, and it’s even more boring for me to listen to. I can follow it, and appreciate the musicianship to an extent, but I wouldn’t choose to listen to this.

3. I like this a bit better than #2, but I don’t care much for the piano intro, the main theme, the sax player’s sound... the feeling is kind of sterile sounding to me. Perhaps too “impressionistic” for my taste. I do think it picks up some momentum as it goes along, and the drummer helps to inject some life into things during the piano solo (trying to think of some good things to say ). It’s okay... just not mcot.

4. Not for me, thanks.

5. I never cared too much for this tune, although I’m not sure why. There always seemed to be a certain “trite” quality to this, since it was sung into the ground over the years (kind of like “misty” in that respect). This performance is pretty good, though, IMO. I don’t particularly dig the singer, but she’s good. I hear sincerity, and not the “listen to what I can do with my voice” quality I hear from so many singers. Anyway, I don’t know who it is, and I wouldn’t buy it.

6. Kind of an interesting opening, with the different instruments taking turns; and I thought this was going to be an interesting theme... but it sort of petered out before it lived up to my hopes and expectations. Quickly got “noodly” sounding to my ears. I like the sound of the vibes in this setting, but the whole thing really doesn’t hold my interest at all. Pretty major yawnfest, IMO.

7. Another dark and dreary one... was it raining when you recorded this, Dmitry? This sounds like Miles (or someone trying to be Miles) to me. If it’s Miles, it’s nothing I recognize. At any rate, good trumpet playing, but the piece does very little for me.

8. This is pretty interesting. I don’t recognize this either, but it’s more familiar than anything I’ve heard here since track 1. This has a 50’s cool vibe, but the instrumentation of this group is not ringing any bells for me yet. I like the doubletime sequences and the riffing under the solos. I feel like I should know this one... I may own it, in fact. Or, maybe not... but I'll be interested to find out.

9. Hmm... this is reminding me a bit of something from Mike’s disc 2, but this has a more modern modal feel to it. Not necessarily a good thing, as I find this largely quite monotonous. Seems like this fades out kind of early...

10. Yet another dark, lonely, dreary one. Sounds like it was recorded at night down at the docks (after the tenor player’s family left on a ship). Not a mood I’m in very often.

Not a whole lot here for me, but that's the way it goes sometimes. Different strokes...

Thanks, Dmitry.

[couw]

track 1. it took me a (admittedly only short) while to place this correctly, but it is of course from this album. The flute is great here, a very strong performance overall, nice, sweet melody and pretty pretty flute. No one should be fooled by the novelty concept of the album, nor by the silly cover, this one is great.

track 2. the theme does little for me and I don't really like the unisono lines. the solos are more interesting, with that nice mysterious bass vamp underneath. The guitar solo keeps me attentive, the tenor is nice enough but sounds a little at loss with all the space it gets to fill; it does pick up later on though. I could have done without the drum solo. Nice track, but too long.

track 3. Lee Konitz going close to the edge. A little sleuthing brought me to this album (track 4). Latter day Konitz can really move too close to "too pretty" for comfort I find. On other days I like it well enough.

track 4. cool beans! Nice vamp going there and cool "eastern" tinged percussion. This sounds like something by someone from the Istabile conglomerate. the "All Blues" vamp quote is a nice touch.

track 5. very nice, very curious to find out who this is.

track 6. the playing is great, the humming is really obnoxious.

track 7. the bass is great, so are the drums. The trumpet makes it all a bit too Milesian for my tastes. I'd like to tell the players to cheer up.

track 8. o boy, does this alto sound familiar, drats. and great stuff too!

track 9. I'd wager a guess that this is Tjader. a great track, the repetitive rhythms give it a nice flavour. the orchestral blasts are the icing.

track 10. man, this sounds depressed and a bit like bad television series, what with that echo. apart from that, this is neat.

(edited for psellink)

Edited November 6, 2004 by couw

[couw]

ah, track 8 has been identified, thank god, I can sleep tonight-

I don't have that particular album-

[.:.impossible]

Wow. Maybe I don't want to host a blindfold test. I just read everyone else's responses. Is it always this negative?

I thought blindfold tests were something different, I guess. I approached this the wrong way. I didn't know what nmcot meant until now. Was that phrase originated during a blindfold test by chance?

Tough crowd.

[Jim R]

Wow. Maybe I don't want to host a blindfold test. I just read everyone else's responses. Is it always this negative?

I thought blindfold tests were something different, I guess. I approached this the wrong way. I didn't know what nmcot meant until now. Was that phrase originated during a blindfold test by chance?

Tough crowd.

Don't make any assumptions about the Blindfold Test phenomenon based solely on what you've seen here so far. No, they're not always negative in general, although there's always that element to some degree. You can't please everybody, nor expect everybody to like what you like (I know that's obvious, but it bears repeating every now and then). Only a handful of people have responded so far, and there may very well be some participants who will dig most of this. Anyway, I don't think there's any real pattern from test to test. There has been a wide variety of music sampled during these 19 tests, and there's quite a variety of tastes among us. So, it's going to be unpredictable. Basically, it's about being honest, so you're going to see some negative comments here and there.

There are various examples of "nmcot"-type abbreviations that have been used over the course of the tests. You might want to go back and read the various BFT threads, even if you don't have the music, in order to get an idea of what has gone on before.

[.:.impossible]

I guess I expected more of an open-ness to the music, as opposed to an "I like it." or "I don't like it."

[Jim R]

I guess I expected more of an open-ness to the music, as opposed to an "I like it." or "I don't like it."

Yeah, I think that varies too, from person to person (age and experience is probaby a factor in terms of being "open"), and from test to test. Some people tend to write longer (more analytical) comments on each track than others do. On the other hand, some guys can express more in one sentence than I can in five.

[tooter]

track 6. the playing is great, the humming is really obnoxious.

I've got almost nothing by him because of that - I find it a real turn off, literally. Others are even worse, of course. It always seems to me like a totally unnecessary affectation. Dave Pike is another. Some vibes players seem to introduce it sometimes and not at others. Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one with a thing about this.

And yet, there's Bud...

[couw]

I guess I expected more of an open-ness to the music, as opposed to an "I like it." or "I don't like it."

time is of the essence. Some times I find it, sometimes I don't. This time I found a little and ran through. Maybe I will return to the latter half of the tracks later.

[couw]

Dave Pike is another.

yeah! yech!

And yet, there's Bud...

and I still haven't fathomed myself for putting up with it when it's Bud, even finding it an interesting part of the performance many times.

[mikeweil]

Thanks a lot, Dmitry, for this delightful compilation! Like it a lot!

These are my impressions & guesses, without any looking at AMG or web research or others' posts etc.

Track 1 Sounds familiar, but even after repeated listening I can't put my finger on it. The two flutes and trumpet are voiced in an almost folkloric feel, with that round full tone of the lower flute. Pianist reminds me of late 1950's Bill Evans, the alto at the end even sounds more than a little like Cannonball. Or is this some Eastern European group? Puzzling ... This could end in a purchase - like the Legrand in a previous BT, which I bought before the answers were out! Delightful opener.

Track 2 I like these low note bass vamps. Almost existential mood. I used to dig things like this to death 20 years ago, but today I'm not that wild about them any more. No idea who this is. Probably know some of them. On an average, a little too loose for my taste, but nice.

Track 3 Nice piano intro. Fragile alto sound, reminiscent of Konitz. Again nice, but does not pull me in that much. Never heard this before.

Track 4 What seemingly starts out as a bell intro to some free form piece turns out into a 7/16 Balkanian rhythm with sax and piano wailing over the percussion. Personally I like it better when the soloists are locking in with the rhythm - wailing on top is much easier, although they are somewhat connected to it. Oh - the piano solo is more to my taste. Who is this? Some Bulgarian players involved? The folkloric drum beneath the trap set is of the type used in South-East Europe. Another likely purchase. Very interesting drum workout. As an attempt to hit right in the middle between jazz and folklore, very sucessful - well, perhaps a little more on the jazz side.

Track 5 Great change of pace - very good programming throughout!!!

Of course I know this voice - track 10 from this CD - although I have a French CD reissue. The grace of an African queen transferred to jazz.

Track 6 I love those pensive moods in jazz pieces! This is going to be expensive! Walt Dickerson, I am certain, his vibes sound and conception - I have too little of his records. Great track - this man is one of the most original doorbellists ever!

Track 7 Another winner - just bass, brushes and a muted trumpet - I love a spacy instrumentation like this. No idea who this is, but certainly would like to know!

Track 8 Recognized the tune and composer instantly. I have it as track 4 on this CD. The bandleader is one of the few musicians I will keep collecting.

Track 9 Now what would you have thought of me if I hadn't recognized this!?!? Track 8 on this CD, a typical descarga tune - wish they hadn't faded out and given us another vibes solo. Ironically, on this track it's the pianist that impresses me more - no wonder, as it is his band. Two of the greatest leaders in their field together.

Track 10 A rare, (almost) unaccompanied alto track. Great closer, although his tone is not quite to my liking. I give him credit for the courage to play alone and he maintains the feel very well, it's just that intonation - a little flat, like Jackie McLean's.

Great pacing - thank you very very much!

p.s. edited to correct a non-working link.

Edited November 7, 2004 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

Track 1: I knew the tune, so it was a matter of figuring out who does a jazz version of it. The recording quality is so nice, I thought it was something recent. In fact, on first listen I thought it might be from Hubert Laws latest. Some digging reveals that it's actually track 8 from this album. To be honest, I would never have guessed these guys. I definitely need to check this one out!

Oh - I will buy that tomorrow when I get to Frankfurt! Relieved to see my alto ears can be trusted. So I was thinking in the right direction, but I think I never heard that album.

[couw]

Track 1: I knew the tune, so it was a matter of figuring out who does a jazz version of it. The recording quality is so nice, I thought it was something recent. In fact, on first listen I thought it might be from Hubert Laws latest. Some digging reveals that it's actually track 8 from this album. To be honest, I would never have guessed these guys. I definitely need to check this one out!

Oh - I will buy that tomorrow when I get to Frankfurt! Relieved to see my alto ears can be trusted. So I was thinking in the right direction, but I think I never heard that album.

it can be had for cheap (below 10EUR) and it is not copy protected either.

[mikeweil]

No. 6 is a must-have for sure. It's one of my favourite Verve Elites. Track 4 from..This one

Arrrgh! I had the name of that pianist on my lips! And I have that CD, but didn't bother to look! Here goes my rule # 1 item!

Edited November 7, 2004 by mikeweil

[Dmitry]

Track 4 Who is this? Some Bulgarian players involved?

Brilliant deduction! Indeed, Bulgarian musicians are involved. A wonderful concert recording, imo; very obscure.