Gunther Schuller's Early Jazz on line

[Lazaro Vega]

From the Braxton list:

The Internet Archive has Gunther

Schuller's "Early Jazz":

http://www.archive.org/details/EarlyJazz

The djvu* file of 32MB (rather big for an ebook!) is the smallest

version available.

[Free For All]

I'd heard at one point he was going to write another volume to follow The Swing Era.

Is that true?

[Lazaro Vega]

?

[Free For All]

?

My guess is that would be a "no". B-)

I heard this somewhere some time ago.

[mikeweil]

I'd heard at one point he was going to write another volume to follow The Swing Era.

Is that true?

AFAIK he is working on a third volume - I sincerely hope he gets it together, at his age. One of the greatest jazz scholars around, and one who lived the era.

Edited February 25, 2005 by mikeweil

[mikeweil]

[AllenLowe]

I like Schuller a lot, but go to his books less and less, as he tends to miss certain things and is not very able to integrate it all into some larger social/musical patchwork - hence his very odd interpretation of Sam Morgan in the first book, his general ignoring of the Red Nichols/Miff Mole school, or his someone homophobic put-down of high-voiced African American singers (not really understanding that the falsetto is a real part of this tradition). Per-early jazz, I would get hold of as much of Larry Gushee's work as you can (articles here and there, worth seeking out) and wait for Gushee's book on the Creole Band, which will tell us more about early jazz and it's development than anyone has told so far -

I was reading Schuller's notes to the Buster Smith reissue on Atlantic, and they epitomized Schuller's overall problem - he described Smith's current (1960s) means of earning a living, playing for a lot of dancing and in black clubs, as being such a negation of Smith's talents, missing the obvious point that this was typical of the African American scene that has nurtured the music for so many years. Better choices for jazz's early years are Sudhalter's Lost Chords (for all its foibles), Dick Hadlock's Jazz Master's of the 1920s (an absolutely great book), Humphrey Littleton's first volume, called, I think, Jazz, and, immodestly, my own book Devilin Tune, Jazz 1900-1950. Together these will give you a much more accurate picture of the early development of the music.

Edited February 25, 2005 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

I was reading Schuller's notes to the Buster Smith reissue on Atlantic, and they epitomized Schuller's overall problem - he described Smith's current (1960s) means of earning a living, playing for a lot of dancing and in black clubs, as being such a negation of Smith's talents, missing the obvious point that this was typical of the African American scene that has nurtured the music for so many years.

Yeah, those notes are a hoot. Schuller is obviously taken aback by Southern lifestyle in general, and Southern African-Amerciacn lifestyle in particular. The essay reads more like an anthropological writing by some 19th century explorer "observing the natives" than it does liner notes to a jazz album.

Not to dis him, he's a great writer in a lot of ways, but just as you can't take the country out of the boy, you can't put it in him either, and with jazz, that's not always a good thing...

[Rooster_Ties]

Schuller is obviously taken aback by Southern lifestyle in general, and Southern African-Amerciacn lifestyle in particular. The essay reads more like an anthropological writing by some 19th century explorer "observing the natives" than it does liner notes to a jazz album.

Not to dis him, he's a great writer in a lot of ways, but just as you can't take the country out of the boy, you can't put it in him either, and with jazz, that's not always a good thing...

I heard Schuller give a short lecture three or four years ago, at a pre-concert presentation, before he was conducting the St. Louis Symphony (they did a couple short Ives things, Schuller's own Flute Concerto, and otherwise standard material).

Not an ounce of "country" in the man.

[Dr. Rat]

I was reading Schuller's notes to the Buster Smith reissue on Atlantic, and they epitomized Schuller's overall problem - he described Smith's current (1960s) means of earning a living, playing for a lot of dancing and in black clubs, as being such a negation of Smith's talents, missing the obvious point that this was typical of the African American scene that has nurtured the music for so many years.

Yeah, those notes are a hoot. Schuller is obviously taken aback by Southern lifestyle in general, and Southern African-Amerciacn lifestyle in particular. The essay reads more like an anthropological writing by some 19th century explorer "observing the natives" than it does liner notes to a jazz album.

Not to dis him, he's a great writer in a lot of ways, but just as you can't take the country out of the boy, you can't put it in him either, and with jazz, that's not always a good thing...

I was talking to somebody at his record label (GS was in the room with him at the time) some time back about Volume 3, and it seems he's done a lot of work on it but he's pretty much given up hope of turning it into a book. Just too, too much to cover from too many different angles I suppose.

On Schuller's faults: Like everybody he's got them, and I think you guys identify some of them well here. What I think makes Schuller great, though, is that youcan more or less take his failings into account and then read with great profit, in spite of the fact that he has his own blind spots and prejudices, I think he helped me overcome a lot of mine.

Not too many writers have done that for me.

I was looking forward to Vol. III. Perhaps one day a good editor might be able to work what does exist into a series of essays or some such.

--eric

[JSngry]

On Schuller's faults: Like everybody he's got them, and I think you guys identify some of them well here. What I think makes Schuller great, though, is that youcan more or less take his failings into account and then read with great profit...

Agreed. He's one of those writers who you know won't always (if ever) give you the full picture, but the part that he does give you that's not colored by those "shortcomings", you can pretty much take to the bank (no "profit" joke intended, btw).

[ghost of miles]

I, too, have heard a definitive "No" on V. 3, from someone pretty close to him. Allen, what did you think of THE SWING ERA? I've been dipping into it lately and finding much of worth.

[Dr. Rat]

I, too, have heard a definitive "No" on V. 3, from someone pretty close to him. Allen, what did you think of THE SWING ERA? I've been dipping into it lately and finding much of worth.

My own impression is that the Swing Era is a much better book, with less drive toward "proving" a thesis.

I think the thesis laid out in Early Jazz was just a dumb, at the time politically correct move on the part of GS.

The Swing ERa book seems to me to suffer much less from having to serve a thesis.

--eric