Do you wish jazz sold more?

[Hardbopjazz]

If jazz sold like top 40 music, I believe almost every artist would have his entire discography available. Do you prefer it the way it is now, where just an elite group of listeners enjoy the music regardless of sessions going out of print?

[Harold_Z]

Of course not.

I wish jazz was the most popular music in the world and great musicians were making the the loot comensurate with that popularity.

Politicians should starve. Musicians shouldn't.

[Chuck Nessa]

I wish only one amazingly smart billionaire bought everything in huge quantities. My address is available on request.

Otherwise - Duh!

Do you really want to hear about Wayne Shorter being arrested for shooting Herbie outside a club?

[GregK]

I don't care for the popularity aspect of it being a Top 40-ish music, but I do wish jazz musicians earned the money that the Top 40 "musicians" do. I wish jazz was in the minds of young kids too, the way that the Top 40 stuff is. It's a shame a lot of us didn't discover how great the music is until our 20s

[JSngry]

I'm less concerned with how much it sells than with having it be able to stand or fall on its own merits in a marketplace that hasn't been saturated with preconcieved notions about what it "is" or "isn't", if they even have any notions that the music exists in the first place. Let the people have a fair chance to be exposed to the music, all of it. Then, if it sells more, beautiful. If it doesn't, hey - that's the way it goes.

Of course, jazz will most likely remain an "alternative" music for the forseeable future, given the overall condition/priorities/etc of the society at large, musical and otherwise. That too is the way it goes. But geez - there's other "fringe" musics with a lot less potential "general" appeal than jazz that the mainstream media doesn't ignore the way they do jazz. They seem espescially determined to either ignore it, iconicize the dead folks for commercial exploitation purposes, or treat the music as something for a select group of older highbow hipsters (talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy...). That's about it. Any other presentation/image is pretty much nonexistent.

I'm tellin' you - it's a world gone wrong.

[Jazzmoose]

I'm too old to be a music snob and decide that it isn't that good any more if it were to get popular, so sure, I wish jazz was bigger than it is. As long as that could happen without compromising the music. Sometimes I wish I could fly.

[Chuck Nessa]

Sometimes I wish I could fly.

I wish you could too.

[Jazzmoose]

Bad-da-boom...

[Jazz Kat]

It's very ironic how the most talented musicians are struggling to pay the bills playing in night clubs and these three chord wonder tower of shits are doing preformances on tv, concert calls, and are getting so much un-deserved credit.

I like it just the way it is now, the way jazz is sold. Sure you can't get good jazz in Looney Tunes, or places like Coconuts, but stores like Borders and Virgin are aimed at selling jazz. I just read an article in Downbeat about Virgin and selling jazz. It was in, not the latest issue but the issue before that. You should check it out. They seemed more geared toward selling jazz than selling pop.

[chandra]

Just a little true story, sort of related to this thread ( may be ).

I enquired at our small town local library if they have the Norah Jones DVD. The female librarian who helped me said 'She is what....Jazz? I don't really like Jazz'. I said 'Oh, she is not Jazz. Ask my friends at Organissimo'.

Postscript: She watched it later and said 'What are you doing to me. It sounds Jazz to me... I am not into that kind of music...I need catchy and fast music'.

Hey, I tried to dispel the myth

[Joe M]

Well, if musician XYZ only sold 1,000 copies of his new cd, rather than the 2,000 which he currently sells (you'd be surprised at sales figures for most jazz records) my cd collection would be worth a lot more!

But seriously, why wouldn't anyone want jazz to be more popular. It would never be pop music, but I know these musicians and want to see them have success, and all too often, that's very difficult. I know one musician, who recently spent $25,000 on his cd project, of his own money, nice cd, good band, complete with a well respected guest star, and maybe sold a hundred records nationwide.

[chandra]

Just a few ideas, not from an artistic perspective, but from a commerical and marketing point of view...

-- Price: Would drastically reducing the price of the CDs increase demand? The cost of the media is so little these days that if the volume really picks up at lower prices ( without lowering somehow the perceived value of the music, so it has to be done properly ), then the artist might end up making more money.

-- Packaging. Multiple genre CDs packaged together at a reasonable price. People might then decide to check it out for an extra couple of dollars if they might have otherwise bought one of the CDs in the package.

-- Promotion. Is there a nationwide association that promotes Jazz and Jazz musicians. Like an industry association without affiliation to a specific artist or label. That seems to work in other industries. This is a long term thing but every industry has one.

-- I hear that Bluenote made a bit of profit ( even before all the recent windfalls ) even at the 2% market share level. The goal should be to increase it modestly to say 3% ( using the above and other techniques ). If other industry examples are similar, even such modest increases create a snowball effect which is very perceivable. I would think this will also result in increased opportunities for Jazz musicians at the local performing level and over time better rates.

Anyway, some random thoughts...

[Quincy]

If jazz sold like top 40 music, I believe almost every artist would have his entire discography available. Do you prefer it the way it is now, where just an elite group of listeners enjoy the music regardless of sessions going out of print?

For my own selfish reasons I like the way things are now.

If I want to see a "big name" jazz performer like Wayne Shorter, I can get front row tickets for $50 (or perhaps even a few dollars less.) Less famous performers such as Thomasz Stanko can be seen for half that. It's such great deal for the ticket buyer compared to many rock shows.

Now if I want to see a big name critically acclaimed rock act (whether over the hill or not), I'm probably paying anywhere from $75 to what, $150 or even more? (This is hypothetical as I have yet to pay that for a show.) Of course many bands can't charge that much, but even the less popular indie/rock/whatever rock genre can usually charge more than many jazz acts can. I mean if the B-52s can charge $59 for the Britt Fest this summer, well, sheeeeesh, that's crazy.

If demand is behind those higher prices, then let's keep jazz our little secret.

[wolff]

Two things:

Jazz has never sold more than a few percent of total music sold, in the last 40 years.

People are spending their money on other things these days. Music has dropped very far in importance, compared to 20 years ago. Home theatre, VHS/DVD, computers/software/games.....the list is endless. I know so many people who have forgotten or never knew what listening to music is like. Even in the car talk radio(politics/sports) has taken over.

Thirdly, the rise of public domain labels will further accelerate the decline of jazz. Short term,it looks good, but believe me, when shelf space is taken up by the cheaper titles, where the artist and legitimate labels get nothing, all will be lost for the future. I blame the narrow mindeness and jealousy of EU countries/people for this. They can't create a viable/original product on their own.

[king ubu]

I blame the narrow mindeness and jealousy of EU countries/people for this. They can't create a viable/original product on their own.

I know this is not the issue, but still I disagree with this sentence of yours (even if I tear it out of its context):

There are many many great musicians over here that create "original products". Blame the main jazz audience (still US, as it always has been) for being touchy about jazz having to "swing" and be "blues-related" and whatever... it may help the market some, if the US audience would support Euro labels like Leo, Hat, Intakt, Soulnote/Black Saint, etc etc. They all offer original music of great artists, yet I guess their sales are nowhere close to the sales of the large US corporations. (I do realize there are many great small US labels, Atavistic, Eremite, whatever, as well as those euro corporation crooks from BMG, so the picture is distorted... I just wish the jazz market would be more decentalized and more of the sales would go to the small labels doing such a great job at such big expenses.)

[Jazzmoose]

When I break up my CDs by the time of their purchase, I'd say those smaller labels are definitely picking up steam! Looks like the secret to saving jazz is to get everyone to log onto Organissimo and JazzCorner...

[7/4]

Just a little true story, sort of related to this thread ( may be ).

I enquired at our small town local library if they have the Norah Jones DVD. The female librarian who helped me said 'She is what....Jazz? I don't really like Jazz'. I said 'Oh, she is not Jazz. Ask my friends at Organissimo'.

Postscript: She watched it later and said 'What are you doing to me. It sounds Jazz to me... I am not into that kind of music...I need catchy and fast music'.

Hey, I tried to dispel the myth

Play John Zorn's Spy vs. Spy for her.

[Jim Alfredson]

I wish my jazz sold more. Does that count?

[neveronfriday]

I blame the narrow mindeness and jealousy of EU countries/people for this. They can't create a viable/original product on their own.

But otherwise you're ok, right?

[king ubu]

I blame the narrow mindeness and jealousy of EU countries/people for this.  They can't create a viable/original product on their own.

But otherwise you're ok, right?

I felt like posting such a reaction, too, at first, but then I thought maybe it was worth trying to make a few points...

Seems we poor EU people (oh, wait, I'm not even a EU person!) are greedy pigs that don't do anything but press worthless reissues of public domain discs. You know, CD pressing is the main occupation of 7/8 of the EU's population...

(I know you didn't mean it this way, Wolff, but still you could have chosen your words a bit more carefully.)

ubu

[neveronfriday]

I felt like posting such a reaction, too, at first, but then I thought maybe it was worth trying to make a few points...

Seems we poor EU people (oh, wait, I'm not even a EU person!) are greedy pigs that don't do anything but press worthless reissues of public domain discs. You know, CD pressing is the main occupation of 7/8 of the EU's population...

(I know you didn't mean it this way, Wolff, but still you could have chosen your words a bit more carefully.)

ubu

You're much too nice for a non-EU person.

Use your gut instinct next time.

[A Lark Ascending]

Track down a copy of Soweto Kinch's recent jazz single, 'Jazz Planet' - a funny, tongue-in-cheek, completely pro-jazz yet unsnobby approach to this issue. Great fun.

Edited April 11, 2005 by Bev Stapleton

[RDK]

Silly question, "do you wish jazz sold more?"

Would you really want jazz to be as popular as "pop" music? Do we really want to spend hours waiting in line or dialing Ticketmaster in order to see James Carter or Brubeck or Benny Golson play in a 20,000 seat sports arena?

[Free For All]

I do wish it sold more than the miserable 1 or 2% that it's at now.

I wish it was possible for more players to make a living playing the music they want to play; a typical gig still pays what it paid 20 years ago!

I wish that the touring big bands were still around to provide gigs for the kids who are getting jazz degrees.

All that being said, I do have reservations about the music becoming popular to the point that it becomes even more corrupted by corporate interference. It seems to me that when anything appears on the $$ radar it inevitably gets sanitized for mass public consumption. A good media example of this: compare the Robert Altman film M*A*S*H to 1) the first season of the series and then to 2) subsequent seasons. The first season to a degree contained the dark humor of the film, but after that it became incredibly generic.

When jazz experienced its most commercially viable period (which I assume was the big band era) the effect on the music was not always positive. People were (and still are) interested in hearing exact recreations of their favorite "hit" tunes with the exact same solos. They are IMHO embracing the nostalgia while overlooking the concept of innovation. For the most part that's the way I feel about the audience in KC- they want to re-create the exact music of KC's heyday (30s) instead of embracing the concept of innovation that brought about the music in the first place.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

BTW, Bev - big article on Soweto Kinch in yesterday's New York Times.

Mike