Gene Harris Help, Please

[Dan Gould]

I'm in the midst of a dispute with Gene's widow, Janie. The gist of it:

There are two "Gene Harris Trio" albums on Jubilee. One was recorded in 1955, the other in 1959. Several years ago, I grabbed the one recorded in 1959 off of ebay (Genie In My Soul) and was quite disturbed to find that the man pictured on the back was demonstrably not Gene Harris of Three Sounds fame, and on top of that, the liners made reference to the man's classical background and training, clearly indicating its a different guy.

Fast forward to now. Janie tells me that Gene's first record was in 1955 for Jubilee, Our Love is Here to Stay. I tell her that I once had the other Jubilee record by "Gene Harris" and its not "our" Gene, are you sure about the earlier one? She insists, so I order a copy from Fresh Sounds. It just arrived, and for the album, recorded just after Gene left the service, talks about his attendance at not just Julliard but a number of other classical music places, that he's performed with the Boston Philharmonic, etc., etc.

And yet, Janie is still telling me that its Gene, even if my ears say otherwise and logic screams otherwise. Says she can't explain the liner notes, other than that the record business sometimes doesn't make sense.

So, that's where we are, and I am hoping that one of you discographical mavens can point to one of your tomes and tell me that the two Gene Harris Trio LPs on Jubilee are listed separately from the main Gene Harris listing, and that there is little dispute that there were two Gene Harris' recording in the late 50s.

Anyone? Please?

Edited April 21, 2005 by Dan Gould

[Chuck Nessa]

Copied from Bruynicnkx:

GENE HARRIS

This artist is definitely different from the previous Gene Harris.

-Our love is here to stay- : The Gene Harris Trio : Gene Harris (p) Mike Long (b) George Herman (d)

New York, 1955

Let's fall in love Jubilee LP1O05, Fresh Sound (Sp)FSRCD122

I'd do anything for you - , -

Cheerful little earful - , -

A foggy day - , -

My heart belongs to daddy - , -

There'll never be another you - , -

The girl friend - , -

Love me or leave me - , -

Old devil moon - , -

Varsity drag - , -

Our love is here to stay - , -

Almost like being in love - , -

Try a little tenderness - , -

Out of this world - , -

[Chuck Nessa]

BTW, way past time to buy a discography Dan.

[Dan Gould]

BTW, way past time to buy a discography Dan.

Couldn't resist, could ya?

Thanks Chuck, you're a fine human being.

File that under "Signs of the Apocalypse," right under that negative Dusty Groove review.

[Brad]

Sounds to me Dan that no matter what you say even giving her a discographical entry will not convince her.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

Contact Juilliard and see if you can get dates of attendance, etc. Here's a contact:

Chavela Contreras, Administrative Assistant

CContreras@juilliard.edu

Mike

[Dan Gould]

That won't help - its not a question of when or whether a "Gene Harris" attended Juilliard. She assumes that somehow, somewhere, liner notes got screwed up and that's where the confusion has started.

For what its worth, she's now told me that while on tour in Japan, "Our Love is Here to Stay" came on the club sound system, and "Gene winced and wanted it turned off. Said it was his first recording. And the club owner brought the LP out and it had the same cover as the Fresh Sounds reissue except it wasn't green, it was blue, and the biographical info was correct."

So maybe she is correct, and the first "Gene Harris Trio" recording really was his, and somehow it changed in subsequent pressings? She says that his last drummer told her about the LP, that a friend had a copy. So she's going to contact the drummer and try to find out about the liners. If he says the liners don't say anything about classical training and instead talk about boogie-woogie pianists and growing up in Michigan, then I guess she's definitely right.

[bertrand]

Here's a theory: the liners on the Fresh Sound are wrong because they copied them out of the All Music Guide (or some other such unreliable source).

It could happen: David Weiss pointed out that his bio at amg is all wrong; it's the bio for another non-jazz David Weiss. The CDs listed are his, however.

Bertrand.

[bertrand]

The AMG bio is the correct Gene Harris. No classical Gene Harris shows up. So this is not the source of the confusion (not that AMG is off the hook for other errors).

If even the photo on the LP Dan bought is different, this is troublesome.

What do we know about Mike Long and George Herman?

Bertrand.

[Michael Fitzgerald]

I have seen numerous instances of people refusing to accept "the truth" - sometimes to do with failing memories, sometimes ignorant prejudice.

One example that comes to mind is someone vehemently insisting that John McLaughlin did not appear on "Jack Johnson" by Miles Davis, that the guitar player was Sonny Sharrock. Fact is, both are present and are easily recognized by anyone familiar with the two musicians' styles. But no, McLaughlin STOLE the credit away from Sharrock. Oh please.

I see that the dreaded allmusic site blurb on this Gene Harris record says, "Gene Harris sounds more like Oscar Peterson than himself, since he had not yet developed the bluesy style that was the trademark of his many recordings" -

Mike Long and George Herman seem not to have recorded outside of that first "Gene Harris" Jubilee record.

However, bassist on the *second* record is Ben Tucker - try contacting him:

http://216.73.101.101/wtmt/bentucker/

Mike

Edited April 21, 2005 by Michael Fitzgerald

[Dan Gould]

Here's a theory: the liners on the Fresh Sound are wrong because they copied them out of the All Music Guide (or some other such unreliable source).

It could happen: David Weiss pointed out that his bio at amg is all wrong; it's the bio for another non-jazz David Weiss. The CDs listed are his, however.

Bertrand.

No, when I had the Genie In My Soul vinyl, the liners were essentially the same, taking care to point out the man's classical background and training. So it can't be a case of grabbing bad liners from some other source - its essentially the same info as what's on the later recording.

And beyond the fact tha the man didn't have much of a career, I think the reason there's no classical listing for a Gene Harris is, the man tried to make it as a jazz man. But he still didn't do enough to warrant any notice, other than two dates with Jubilee.

[bertrand]

Very interesting dilemma, Dan. I think Mike found your best hope - let's see what Ben Tucker has to say.

Good luck.

Bertrand.

[JSngry]

Well, whatever the real truth, I'd let the Widow Harris hold on to her reality as she knows it, unless she gives signs that whe's doesn't mind giving it up.

[bbopman]

Hello Dan,

My name is Bradley Young, and I'm a jazz pianist, composer and recording artist. I'm new to the group, and just read this fascinating thread. 
I have been an admirer of Gene Harris for as long as I can remember - he has been a constant source of inspiration in my life as a Jazz pianist. I believe he is one of the great pianists in the history of Jazz, and he has been one of my major influences, stylistically, as a pianist.

So, I posted a very similar post on "RateYourMusic.com" in 2003, very similar indeed...to your query about the existence of a white Jazz pianist named Gene Harris, who recorded one (or two?) albums for the Jubilee label in the mid 1950's. Who is this guy? Why is there NO information about him anywhere on the internet..and why is it that on most Gene Harris discographies, its is assumed that the two LP's on the Jubilee label by him, "Our Love Is Here To Stay", and "Genie In My Soul", are the work of the "REAL" Gene Harris of The Three Sounds fame? This is a CRAZY MYSTERY and no one seems to be able to figure it out! I've had nearly the identical experience that you have had: first, an overwhelming curiosity to figure out WHO the pianist is on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" - is it the same pianist who plays on "Genie In My Soul", or is it "our" Gene Harris, the pianist who started his career in 1958 with the release of "Blue Note Presents The Three Sounds", catalog #1600, on Blue Note Records? Apparently, our experience is almost identical even down to being so bold as to ask one of my friends, Luther Hughes, who played bass with Gene Harris in the 1980's and 1990's, to provide me with Janie's tel # (Gene's wife) so I could call her and ask her if she could shed some light in this issue. Well, I did call and speak with her at length, and she told me the EXACT same story she told you: That the liner notes must have gotten screwed up, and that it was DEFINITELY her husband, the great Gene Harris from Benton Harbor, Michigan, who recorded "Our Love Is Here To Stay" for Jubilee in 1955, after he was out of the army. She shared the same story of the two of them being together in Japan on one of Gene's tours, and the club owner putting the record (CD) on during one of the band's breaks - and Gene putting his head in his hands, and Janie asking "What's the matter, baby?" and Gene telling her that they were listening to the first record he ever did, before forming the Three Sounds...after he got out of the army.

So if all this is true, why does the pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" sound like a very accomplished bebop pianist, with serious classical training (he even quotes a famous classical theme - I can't remember the name of it at the moment) - and he executes it flawlessly - and also, stylistically, this pianist sounds very much like he was influenced by bebop piano players like Bud Powell, Al Haig and George Wallington... I have been playing piano since I was 4 years old, and started listening to Jazz when I was 7 or 8 - and started playing Jazz when I was 15. I've been a student of Jazz my whole life. I have what I would modestly call a fairly well developed ear - and to me, this pianist doesn't sound at all like Gene Harris of "The Three Sounds"...also, strangely, and more confoundingly, he doesn't sound like the Gene Harris on the "Genie In My Soul" album either! The pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" has a much more well rounded approach, with obvious classical training, and he swings more authentically, and harder than the Gene Harris who plays on "Genie In My Soul". So the conundrum is: If it is really the same pianist who played on "Genie In My Soul", why does he sound like a completely different pianist? Did he DIGRESS in the 4 subsequent years? ("Our Love Is Here To Stay was released in 1955, and "Genie In My Soul" according to info Ive found on the internet, was released in 1959). The pianist on "genie In My Soul" sounds a lot less HIP than the pianist on "Genie In My Soul" - it CANT be the same guy...The pianist on "Genie In My Soul", (forgive me), sounds like a competent pianist, but somewhat soul-less, glib white pianist...more like someone who is coming from the Roger Williams bag than a true Jazz player...The pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" is WONDERFUL, with a nice light touch, and sudden bursts of double time runs that again hint at someone who listened to Bud Powell, George Wallington...even Oscar Peterson....so perhaps it IS the "real" Gene Harris (of Three Sounds" fame)...BUT - if its really the Gene Harris of The Three Sounds -  is it really possible that he transformed his style from this bebop oriented style, to the gospel and blues saturated style we hear on "The Three Sounds" first LP on Blue Note? Intuitively, for me, it doesn't make sense...and every time I listen to "Our Love Is Here To Stay" (I really like the guy's playing, whoever he is) I keep thinking "NO, thats NOT the "real" Gene Harris!" So...whats the answer? In the age of Google, where, there are seemingly no questions that cannot be answered -  here is one that befuddles Jazz historians and fans, with no foreseeable resolution. This is a mystery inside of an enigma, inside of a conundrum...feel free to respond here if you've learned anything new. Ive been frustrated by this seemingly unanswerable question for years now. Thanks for taking the time to read.

Sincerely,

Bradley Young

Edited March 3, 2016 by bbopman

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think Jubilee Records is now owned by Universal-EMI. Has anyone approached them to see if the session notes for the two albums are still around?

MG

[Big Beat Steve]

Interesting thread. (Had not yet lurked around here the first time this was current some 11 (!) years ago now).

Actually, whenever a Gene Harris Thread comes up here (which is not exactly a rare occurrence as we know) I wonder when this "other" Gene Harris will be brought up. I bought his "Our Love Is Here To Stay" LP on Jubilee (FS facsimile reisue) some 15 years ago and do like it quite a bit. So I'll be interested in the outcome of this further research.

[Dan Gould]

12 hours ago, bbopman said:

Hello Dan,

My name is Bradley Young, and I'm a jazz pianist, composer and recording artist. I'm new to the group, and just read this fascinating thread. 
I have been an admirer of Gene Harris for as long as I can remember - he has been a constant source of inspiration in my life as a Jazz pianist. I believe he is one of the great pianists in the history of Jazz, and he has been one of my major influences, stylistically, as a pianist.

So, I posted a very similar post on "RateYourMusic.com" in 2003, very similar indeed...to your query about the existence of a white Jazz pianist named Gene Harris, who recorded one (or two?) albums for the Jubilee label in the mid 1950's. Who is this guy? Why is there NO information about him anywhere on the internet..and why is it that on most Gene Harris discographies, its is assumed that the two LP's on the Jubilee label by him, "Our Love Is Here To Stay", and "Genie In My Soul", are the work of the "REAL" Gene Harris of The Three Sounds fame? This is a CRAZY MYSTERY and no one seems to be able to figure it out! I've had nearly the identical experience that you have had: first, an overwhelming curiosity to figure out WHO the pianist is on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" - is it the same pianist who plays on "Genie In My Soul", or is it "our" Gene Harris, the pianist who started his career in 1958 with the release of "Blue Note Presents The Three Sounds", catalog #1600, on Blue Note Records? Apparently, our experience is almost identical even down to being so bold as to ask one of my friends, Luther Hughes, who played bass with Gene Harris in the 1980's and 1990's, to provide me with Janie's tel # (Gene's wife) so I could call her and ask her if she could shed some light in this issue. Well, I did call and speak with her at length, and she told me the EXACT same story she told you: That the liner notes must have gotten screwed up, and that it was DEFINITELY her husband, the great Gene Harris from Benton Harbor, Michigan, who recorded "Our Love Is Here To Stay" for Jubilee in 1955, after he was out of the army. She shared the same story of the two of them being together in Japan on one of Gene's tours, and the club owner putting the record (CD) on during one of the band's breaks - and Gene putting his head in his hands, and Janie asking "What's the matter, baby?" and Gene telling her that they were listening to the first record he ever did, before forming the Three Sounds...after he got out of the army.

So if all this is true, why does the pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" sound like a very accomplished bebop pianist, with serious classical training (he even quotes a famous classical theme - I can't remember the name of it at the moment) - and he executes it flawlessly - and also, stylistically, this pianist sounds very much like he was influenced by bebop piano players like Bud Powell, Al Haig and George Wallington... I have been playing piano since I was 4 years old, and started listening to Jazz when I was 7 or 8 - and started playing Jazz when I was 15. I've been a student of Jazz my whole life. I have what I would modestly call a fairly well developed ear - and to me, this pianist doesn't sound at all like Gene Harris of "The Three Sounds"...also, strangely, and more confoundingly, he doesn't sound like the Gene Harris on the "Genie In My Soul" album either! The pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" has a much more well rounded approach, with obvious classical training, and he swings more authentically, and harder than the Gene Harris who plays on "Genie In My Soul". So the conundrum is: If it is really the same pianist who played on "Genie In My Soul", why does he sound like a completely different pianist? Did he DIGRESS in the 4 subsequent years? ("Our Love Is Here To Stay was released in 1955, and "Genie In My Soul" according to info Ive found on the internet, was released in 1959). The pianist on "genie In My Soul" sounds a lot less HIP than the pianist on "Genie In My Soul" - it CANT be the same guy...The pianist on "Genie In My Soul", (forgive me), sounds like a competent pianist, but somewhat soul-less, glib white pianist...more like someone who is coming from the Roger Williams bag than a true Jazz player...The pianist on "Our Love Is Here To Stay" is WONDERFUL, with a nice light touch, and sudden bursts of double time runs that again hint at someone who listened to Bud Powell, George Wallington...even Oscar Peterson....so perhaps it IS the "real" Gene Harris (of Three Sounds" fame)...BUT - if its really the Gene Harris of The Three Sounds -  is it really possible that he transformed his style from this bebop oriented style, to the gospel and blues saturated style we hear on "The Three Sounds" first LP on Blue Note? Intuitively, for me, it doesn't make sense...and every time I listen to "Our Love Is Here To Stay" (I really like the guy's playing, whoever he is) I keep thinking "NO, thats NOT the "real" Gene Harris!" So...whats the answer? In the age of Google, where, there are seemingly no questions that cannot be answered -  here is one that befuddles Jazz historians and fans, with no foreseeable resolution. This is a mystery inside of an enigma, inside of a conundrum...feel free to respond here if you've learned anything new. Ive been frustrated by this seemingly unanswerable question for years now. Thanks for taking the time to read.

Sincerely,

Bradley Young

Well first of all welcome to the board from a fellow Gene Harris Fanatic. I didn't realize there were so many of us.

It's actually very hard for me to comment about the stylistic differences between the two records.  I was so disappointed with Genie in my Soul that it did not make the first move after it's purchase. It was only after I had pitched the record that I had contact with Janie Harris and bought Our Love Is Here to Stay.  Recently I've had Genie in My Soul on my radar for reacquisition but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Personally I trust Janie explicitly that Our Love Is Here to Stay is her husband, and Occam's Razor would suggest that Genie in My Soul would also be Gene. One possible answer to the differences that I can come up with is that by 1959 Gene had some national exposure and was a "Blue Note artist". Maybe Jubilee got in touch with him and thought they could get another record done, but didn't want to make it sound too much like the guy on Blue Note and asked him to adjust accordingly? Is that even possible? Just a thought I've entertained ...

Anyway Bradley, there's a whole nother batch of audio evidence about this Gene Harris person. Check out these two threads:

 

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/65465-stereo-gems-label-newark-nj/

 

http://www.organissimo.org/forum/index.php?/topic/76659-mystery-gene-harris-45-part-deux/

 

So the new question is, was there a second Gene Harris or even a third Gene Harris?

Bradley I am going to shoot you a PM.  Thanks again, hope you'll hang around the board some more and not just when Gene Harris gets mentioned.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Dan Gould

[Big Beat Steve]

FWIW, there seem to be quite a few websites out there these days with biographical data of "the" Gene Harris that assume that this Jubilee LP actually was his recording debut, stylistic differences notwithstanding.

Also FWIW, there are several sites showing the original Jubilee pressing (including the back covers) and this confirms that the liner notes on the FS reissue LP that mention his classical training, Juilliard plus concerts in classical settings etc., do match the original liner notes so are "period correct".

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENE-HARRIS-TRIO-Our-Love-Is-Here-To-Stay-LP-JUBILEE-JGM-1005-US-1955-JAZZ-MONO-/262288404615

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k209563353

http://karyoubinka.blog93.fc2.com/blog-entry-163.html