JSngry Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Dang! Still haven't gotten mine! But good things are worth waiting for! ← You'll be well-pleased by Money..., I assure you. It's live and unedited. Virtually screams WORKING BAND IN ACTION!!!! if you know what I mean (and I know that you do). This is right at the time when Ball began to open up harmonically, and if there's not a lot of it going on, there's enough to notice. There's also a heretofore unheard Zawinul composition that has a Mingus-y/early-Shorter quality to it. Pretty interesting historical find, that one is. But overall, the attraction is just the energy and the good vibe. These fools didn't goof on nothin', they just played it all really, REALLY, well. And play it all they did - the balance of presentation is impeccable. From bossa to boogaloo to hardass uptempo burns to standard balladry to progressive, it's all hear, and it all sounds just so damn FINE. God bless Cannonball Adderley, and God bless working bands, if any still exist. But - you'll probably be less well-pleased when you read in the liner notes what else was on the tapes and din't get released here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Checked out Domination last night, and it's good. It's also as I remember it, which is that it's not exactly everything that you'd (I'd) hope for from an Adderley/Nelson collaboration. But oh well about that. What's interesting to me is to hear a sax section w/both Marshall Royal and Phil Woods as the altoists. Which one plays lead? It's hard to tell, almost like they cancel each other out! Hey, it's a fine side overall. Btw - "Experience In E' has had the synth parts removed. I'm more partial to Money In The Pocket, but am glad to have both on CD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Checked out Domination last night, and it's good. It's also as I remember it, which is that it's not exactly everything that you'd (I'd) hope for from an Adderley/Nelson collaboration. But oh well about that. What's interesting to me is to hear a sax section w/both Marshall Royal and Phil Woods as the altoists. Which one plays lead? It's hard to tell, almost like they cancel each other out! Hey, it's a fine side overall. Btw - "Experience In E' has had the synth parts removed. I'm more partial to Money In The Pocket, but am glad to have both on CD. ← Agree - these really are gems, which frankly, I had very little knowledge of 3 weeks ago. Life is good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I love Cannonball, but am SOOO not into Nat for whatever reasons that I just have not been able to dig that band. I know that's horrible and ridiculous to say, but....might pick up Money In The Pocket anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kh1958 Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Nat Adderley isn't in the elite of the trumpet players of his day--I much prefer Lee Morgan, Freddie Hubbard, Donald Byrd, Blue Mitchell, etc.--but on the other hand, he always seemed the perfect foil for Cannonball--I don't think the group would have been better with any of those trumpet greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Oh c'mon guys! Someone gots to speak up in favour of Nat! He wrote some of the best tunes, in his best moments his playing is as poised and soulful as Cannon's... he was in the same league as those others mentioned - his problem only was that he did not go out on his own for quite some time, and when he did, the days of that kind of jazz the Adderleys played were quite gone... Oh, and don't miss Nat in the two-brass frontline with J.J. (to be heard on the soon OOP Mosaic collecting all of J.J.'s Columbia Small Group sessions - one of the best Mosaics ever done... not only my opinion, I think). And remember: Nat got as much money as Cannon - no matter who was billed the leader. That was a deal they made early in their career(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Plus, Nat made the Work Song album as a leader, which is a really beautiful and pretty unique record. Cornet/guitar/cello in front on much of it; some beautiful cornet/guitar/bass trio pieces; Wes Montgomery; etc. I didn't discover it until a fairly recently, and it's really a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Berger Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 This is right at the time when Ball began to open up harmonically, and if there's not a lot of it going on, there's enough to notice. Jim, could you talk about this a little more? Mercy, Mercy, Mercy has some of this on the first track ("Fun" I believe) -- Cannonball's playing dipping into avant-garde waters. Does the new release have more or less of this kind of stuff? In the recent Zawinul biography, he talks about how the band's music really started getting adventurous once Charles Lloyd joined. I don't remember whether what I've heard from Fiddler on the Roof has the more adventurous Cannonball sound, though "74 Miles Away" from 1967 definitely has that vibe -- Cannonball takes a very intense, inside-outside solo. Maybe I'm a little weird in that I like this style of Cannnonball's playing better than the late 50s/early 60s style (which I like too, don't get me wrong). I guess the moral of the story is, pick up Money in the Pocket soon. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 I think I'm with you, Guy. For some weird reason (even I think it's a little weird), Inside Straight might be my favorite Cannonball album. Maybe that's got some of what you're talking about? Anyway, he is very much skirting "out" territory on some of that, while, at times, he is, of course, VERY "in", what with the conga-laced-70s rhythm vibe that permeates much of it. A bit dated, perhaps...I'm not even a big soul jazz fan, but I really love Inside Straight, regardless. Hal Galper (if you enjoy some fender rhodes) has some incredible solos, and the tunes are really good (I'm a big fan of this take of Walter Booker's Saudade). Snakin the Grass is absurd. Don't hear much about this one -- maybe for good reason, but I still am a big fan. nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gould Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Count me as a Nat fan, Flurin. Wrote some of the best tunes in the band's book and I totally agree with KH1958, that he was a perfect foil for Cannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 24, 2005 Report Share Posted August 24, 2005 Can you say nepotism (I probably can't spell it...). But, let's face it, Nat wouldn't have been in that band if he wasn't Cannonballs' brother. I'm not saying he wasn't a good musician who wrote some great songs. I'm just saying he never quite matched the rest of the band in contrast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 (edited) This is right at the time when Ball began to open up harmonically, and if there's not a lot of it going on, there's enough to notice. Jim, could you talk about this a little more? Mercy, Mercy, Mercy has some of this on the first track ("Fun" I believe) -- Cannonball's playing dipping into avant-garde waters. Does the new release have more or less of this kind of stuff? In the recent Zawinul biography, he talks about how the band's music really started getting adventurous once Charles Lloyd joined. I don't remember whether what I've heard from Fiddler on the Roof has the more adventurous Cannonball sound, though "74 Miles Away" from 1967 definitely has that vibe -- Cannonball takes a very intense, inside-outside solo. Maybe I'm a little weird in that I like this style of Cannnonball's playing better than the late 50s/early 60s style (which I like too, don't get me wrong). I guess the moral of the story is, pick up Money in the Pocket soon. Guy ← This all ties in to the comments and reactions towards the Cannoinball cut I included in my recent BFT, o excuse any repetition. The band w/Lloyd is best heard on the Radio Nights side, in my opinion. Money... has a little bit of the more open playing of Cannoinball, but like I said, it's early in the game still. I like later Cannonball's playing better, too. Unfortunately, the records usually don't do it justice. They were geared towards (and reached) a "broader" audience. But there are glimpses, and sometimes more than just glimpses (nathan's mention of Inside Straight is on the money, afaic). Zawinul said that Cannonball's band of the late 60s*early 70s was "playing hipper music than Miles'", and albums like The Price You Got To Pay To Be Free, while containing much of the aforementioned "broader a[[eal" material, contain enough edited snippets to suggest that this was more than just an Idle boast on Joe's part. Investigation of the unedited session tapes of some of these sides (Black Messiah, w/George Duke, is another one) ought to be a priority for somebody. As for Nat, imo he was a good-not-great-player, and a good composer in a certain niche, but what he had in abundance was personality. And what made that band so appealing to so many peole was exactly that = personality. You weren't just listening to a bunch of cats playing tunes, you were hanging out with some groovy cats. A set (or night) with the Adderley's was like a hang at a really hip family outing. They were brithers, for crissakes, and remember - they were Southern men as well. Nat was the "less talented" (relatively, of course) brother who nevertheless brought a quality that complimented and amplified Cannonball's earthier side. The various pianists did the same to Cannonball's more intellectual side, and the bassists/crummers always were able to cover both sides with equal depth and aplomb. We're talking group/family dynamics here. All great bands have them, and the Adderley brothers's bands had them more than most. I've no doubt whatsoever that the "brother" thing was an essential ingredient to all this, as was the "Southern" thing (funny how a lot of people knock Southern "simplicity", yet still find it irresistible when presented with any kind of intelligence...) . It takes more than just great players to make a great band. It takes a special blend of personalities. Cannonball knew this quite well (and his Education Of A Bandleader essay in Jazz Panorama for an indication of how early on he began to be aware of it. And - there's more to being a great band than just playing great music... Edited August 25, 2005 by JSngry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'd still rather have heard him with Lee or Blue or...well, lot's o' guys. Cause like the ALSO say down south..."Brothers from different Mothers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Time for me to be the "TURD IN THE PUNCH BOWL". Did not care for these recordings "years ago" and won't spend money now. I'm posting this as some sort of reinforcement for folks on the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Well, I really like Cannon from the Savoy sides through the Fantasy sides, and I just revel in the excitement and joy that comes from listening to his playing. Got these two new ones in the mail tonight and know i'm going to really enjoy them when I have time to spin them a few times (likely this weekend). I've also been enjoying a couple of live shows from 1972 lately that are great. Those solos! I've never been unhappy with Nat's work. I like it a bit better earlier than later, though some of those long low notes on the late sessions are quite fun to hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Time for me to be the "TURD IN THE PUNCH BOWL".← Well, the ladle's got holes in it, and there's enough Everclear in the punch to kill the germs (and the flavor), so no harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fitzgerald Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 There are recordings of Cannonball in the company of a number of other trumpters, from Freddie Hubbard or Miles Davis to Blue Mitchell, Donald Byrd, Louis Smith, Art Farmer, Kenny Dorham, Lee Morgan, Clark Terry, Dizzy Gillespie - man, it's hard to find an A-list player he *didn't* work with at one time or another. But for Cannonball's working band, Nat beats all of them. The chemistry is perfect. Someone like Lee Morgan or Freddie Hubbard is too similar to Cannon, too technical, too extravagant. Nat has limitations, but there's so much character, so much love. And there's the deference - one thing I hear in Cannon's quintets is that they sound different from most because of the prominence of the alto. Most of those trumpet players above would take the lead and keep the alto underneath - I hear the reverse with Cannonball and Nat. I don't know if the typical trumpet ego would let that happen. No way is Nat going to stand on his own, one-on-one, against any of the above - but as a group member with his brother - man, that is a team that is amazing. And look at the longevity - what saxophonist did any of the others work with for as long as Nat worked witih Cannon? If the blood didn't create a great team, the time and shared experience did. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Nat has limitations, but there's so much character, so much love. ← Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Thanks Mike for the above observation. The other aspect of the Adderley Brothers chemestry, and one that is important to their sound and appeal, is rhythmic. Their time is so in sink, that together they create a new "insrtument" altogether. A good example is: "Jessica's Birthday" from Jazz Workshop Revisited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlhoots Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 I'd still rather have heard him with Lee or Blue or...well, lot's o' guys. Cause like the ALSO say down south..."Brothers from different Mothers." ← Nat's O.K. with me. As noted above Cannon recorded with many other trumpet players. I'm partial to Portrait Of Cannonball with Blue Mitchell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcello Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Time for me to be the "TURD IN THE PUNCH BOWL". Did not care for these recordings "years ago" and won't spend money now. I'm posting this as some sort of reinforcement for folks on the fence. ← Now I've got the Heebie Jeebies, Chuck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Time for me to be the "TURD IN THE PUNCH BOWL". Did not care for these recordings "years ago" and won't spend money now. I'm posting this as some sort of reinforcement for folks on the fence. ← Now I've got the Heebie Jeebies, Chuck! ← 'BOUT TIME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Stream Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Thanks Mike for the above observation. The other aspect of the Adderley Brothers chemestry, and one that is important to their sound and appeal, is rhythmic. Their time is so in sink, that together they create a new "insrtument" altogether. A good example is: "Jessica's Birthday" from Jazz Workshop Revisited ← I that a picture of Cannonball or Terence Blanchard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Nessa Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Thanks Mike for the above observation. The other aspect of the Adderley Brothers chemestry, and one that is important to their sound and appeal, is rhythmic. Their time is so in sink, that together they create a new "insrtument" altogether. A good example is: "Jessica's Birthday" from Jazz Workshop Revisited ← I that a picture of Cannonball or Terence Blanchard? ← You talkin' 'bout the guy in the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted August 25, 2005 Report Share Posted August 25, 2005 Time for me to be the "TURD IN THE PUNCH BOWL".← Having been hit with shigella I'm not sure I needed to hear this. <--The careless food handler emoticon perhaps? Well, the ladle's got holes in it, and there's enough Everclear in the punch to kill the germs (and the flavor), so no harm done. ← Ah, Dr. Sngry to the rescue. Everclear you say... Carry on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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