scottb Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Now that the US has been dumped, I can focus on the beautiful game!! Brazil has arrived!!! Absolutely beautiful play today. 20+ shots, most of them on goal, many requiring fantastic saves. Could've been 10-1. I'm excited about some of these teams meeting up in the later rounds, Spain, Brazil and Argentina. I think England is in trouble as are Sweden, Mexico, Ghana, Australia and Ecuador. They all await their fate against one of these teams that are really on form. It's not too late for Italy, Netherlands or Portugal if they raise their game a bit they could be right there as well. France, well, it's almost too sad to say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Don't forget the hosts, Scott. I might have preferred to root for some of the underdogs, but the way this tournament is going, I don't see too many upsets on the horizon. Because I have liked Kenny's attitude here on this thread, I thought I might adopt the Aussies as a team to pull for if the U.S. got eliminated, but unfortunately I haven't really warmed to their physical style of play. It's certainly more respectable than diving and flopping all the time, but I still don't like it. The play today where two of their attackers tried to knock the Croatian keeper (with the ball already in his hands) into the goal was kind of crazy, imo. I don't know if I'll root for any team in particular... I'd just like to see excellent team play, fewer cards, and fewer dives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 The Germans actually haven't impressed me. I see 4-2 over Costa Rica as defensive weakness. A late win over Poland and a win over an Ecuador team who was resting (even the players on the field ) doesn't really say much. People are excited that they are attacking and aren't their usual robotic selves but that may turn against them when they face teams a little more comfortable with that pace. I think Spain, Argentina and Brazil would punish that German back line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Fair enough, Scott, I understand your viewpoint (sorry- didn't mean to put words in your mouth). To me, 3 wins is pretty impressive any way you slice it. I'm not saying that I expect Germany to reach the final, but I'm still impressed. In terms of that opening game, I agree that their back line could have been better, but then again, Wanchope is a handful. The goals by Lahm and Frings were nothing less than scary (they still stand as two of the best I've seen so far). Their finishing vs Poland could have been better, but they looked dangerous to me nonetheless. The Ecuador match isn't a good guage, of course, but they did what they had to do. Not trying to change your mind, just giving Germany a few props that I think they deserve. I meant to ask you before- do you read/post at the Big Soccer boards? Maybe you've already mentioned it... I couldn't remember. Anyway, I've been reading for a short time and recently registered. A lot of nutcases posting there, but also quite a few interesting viewpoints. Oh well, it's kind of hard to maintain my enthusiasm for participating there after what took place this morning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny weir Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 I might have preferred to root for some of the underdogs, but the way this tournament is going, I don't see too many upsets on the horizon. Because I have liked Kenny's attitude here on this thread, I thought I might adopt the Aussies as a team to pull for if the U.S. got eliminated, but unfortunately I haven't really warmed to their physical style of play. It's certainly more respectable than diving and flopping all the time, but I still don't like it. Fair enough, Jim. However, that goalmouth pileup seemed pretty innocent to me. And the ref missed two darned obvious penalties in the Croatia game - Viduka was rugby tackled in the first half, and there was a clear hand ball in the second. Like others here, I am bemused by the continuing vibe about "physicality" that continues to haunt the Australian team. The Brazilians and the Japanese both carried on about it, but from where I sit they don't seem any worse than some other, more high-profile teams. Besides, you shoulda seen the Socceroos of yesteryear - before Hiddink made something of them. It's quite crazy here - the Croatians had three Oz-born players in their side; the Aussies have seven players with Croat background. I expect the Croat community here will swing behind the Socceroos now. Like no doubt many others, I'm simply happy we're next playing Italy - rather than Ghana. Italy may well be a hurdle too high for us, but I feel that in a sudden death situation, we at least have a chance. Italy hasn't been so flash - just getting the job done, like the Australians. Playing Ghana? Blimey, I wouldn't like our chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 I wish I could participate in this great discussion, but I watch all of the games post-factum, after getting back home from work, so I don't look here for the fear of spoilers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Now that's the way to support your team !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 However, that goalmouth pileup seemed pretty innocent to me. Well, it's kind of traditional that you don't rugby scrum the keeper into his goal after he's caught the ball... And the ref missed two darned obvious penalties in the Croatia game - Viduka was rugby tackled in the first half, and there was a clear hand ball in the second. I agree that those could have been called penalties, although in Viduka's case I think he deserves to get rugby tackled every once in awhile. Dmitry, it's never too late to discuss your reactions to the games. This doesn't have to be all "real time" discussion. Thanks for the photo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Dmitry, it's never too late to discuss your reactions to the games. This doesn't have to be all "real time" discussion. Well, in this case ... UKRAINE NOT WEAK Kramer: Ha ha, the Ukraine. Do you know what the Ukraine is? It's a sitting duck. A road apple, Newman. The Ukraine is weak. It's feeble. I think it's time to put the hurt on the Ukraine. Ukrainian: I come from Ukraine. You not say Ukraine weak. Kramer: Yeah, well we're playing a game here, pal. Ukrainian: Ukraine is game to you?! Howbout I take your little board and smash it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Italy haven't lost a competitive game within 90 minutes since 1986 apparently...(so the BBC commentator said)...that's a fairly extraordinary record! I still like Argentina for it, although I agree, the Brazilians showed the first signs of their class yesterday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.L.M Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 (edited) France, well, it's almost too sad to say anything. FRANCE 2/ TOGO 0. It could have been FRANCE 8/ TOGO 1 They have so many possibilities to score. France reach the last 16 with a match against SPAIN where they are going to be the underdog. I suppose everybody will put his money of SPAIN, what's the best thing for FRANCE. There's something that you should know about this curious game (that you call by this terrible word SOCCER) : than the best teams of the qualifying Groups are RARELY the WORLD CHAMPION of the tournament (only BRAZIL in 1970 succeded to be the best time from start to finish). In 1982 ITALY, before winning the title, could'nt beat any of its oponant (three draws and a miracle happen, they qualified with three points for the next level as the second team of that group. I think than never before and never after a future WORLD CHAMPION qualified with so little points). Before beating HUNGARY 3-2 in the 1954 final, GERMANY had been previously beaten by the HUNGARYAN in the qualification 8-3. Before loosing against GERMANY in 1974, HOLLAND was taken for unbeatable. Who though that ARGENTINA could win in 1986 before MARADONNA starts his show in the secound round? Who ever imagine thant URUGUAY could beat BRAZIL in BRAZIL in 1950? And so on and on. I don't think than FRANCE will go very far but they have seen the light in front of the TOGO (and improve match after match). Let's hope (from my point of view, at last) that they continued in this way (something that I believe in deeply, because I've never been worried about the team even if the first match against SWITZERLAND was closed to disaster and the second against COREA a huge disappoinment). Sorry for the elimination of USA who could have win against ITALY and GHANA (the bad refeering is worst than ever in this tournament). And sorry also for the lecture! Edited June 24, 2006 by P.L.M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 France did come alive today and hopefully will gain confidence from their goals which will lead to more goals. As you said, they certainly played well and created numerous chances but were only able to finsh a couple. In 1998 I pulled against France and in 2002 was glad to see them go out without a goal but somehow I've found myself pulling for them in this WC. I think my love for beautiful play and great players like Vieira, Henry and Zidane have endeared them to me and now it saddens me to see such a team struggle. I'm torn in this next game because I've always been fond of Spain as well and it's nice for them to living up their potential. I think this will be a great match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I just can't see Spain losing to France. I am biased as I root for Spain but even though France won today, it wasn't the most scintillating competition and they couldn't put the ball in the net for such a long time. Ribary? Oh, my god, those chances he blew I couldn't believe it. While I am biased I am realistic and it will be very tough to beat Brazil. However, Spain will be the only real competition in that bracket for Brazil. One of them will be in the final. Jim, what are the soccer boards you refer to? Can you give us some links. I'd love to check 'em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmitry Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 It's time for France to show what they got [if anything]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim R Posted June 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 France, well, it's almost too sad to say anything. FRANCE 2/ TOGO 0. It could have been FRANCE 8/ TOGO 1 They have so many possibilities to score. France reach the last 16 with a match against SPAIN where they are going to be the underdog. I suppose everybody will put his money of SPAIN, what's the best thing for FRANCE. There's something that you should know about this curious game (that you call by this terrible word SOCCER) : than the best teams of the qualifying Groups are RARELY the WORLD CHAMPION of the tournament (only BRAZIL in 1970 succeded to be the best time from start to finish). In 1982 ITALY, before winning the title, could'nt beat any of its oponant (three draws and a miracle happen, they qualified with three points for the next level as the second team of that group. I think than never before and never after a future WORLD CHAMPION qualified with so little points). Before beating HUNGARY 3-2 in the 1954 final, GERMANY had been previously beaten by the HUNGARYAN in the qualification 8-3. Before loosing against GERMANY in 1974, HOLLAND was taken for unbeatable. Who though that ARGENTINA could win in 1986 before MARADONNA starts his show in the secound round? Who ever imagine thant URUGUAY could beat BRAZIL in BRAZIL in 1950? And so on and on. I don't think than FRANCE will go very far but they have seen the light in front of the TOGO (and improve match after match). Let's hope (from my point of view, at last) that they continued in this way (something that I believe in deeply, because I've never been worried about the team even if the first match against SWITZERLAND was closed to disaster and the second against COREA a huge disappoinment). Sorry for the elimination of USA who could have win against ITALY and GHANA (the bad refeering is worst than ever in this tournament). And sorry also for the lecture! No apologies necessary- it's good to remember the history. If one of the best teams in the first round does not end up as world champion, I hope it isn't a result of these referees. Believe me, I'm not saying that only because of what happened to the U.S. (the U.S. did not play up to their ability in this tournament, and the referees only sealed their fate, imo). The bad refereeing has been rampant in probably every group. WHY did we need to change the rules/interpretations for this WC? A normal foul has become a yellow card, a yellow has in some cases become a red. I'm all for cracking down on unfair and dangerous play, but they've gone overboard. It's almost ruining the whole tournament for me. Even in matches where I don't even care who wins, it disturbs me to see ridiculous yellow cards and bogus PK's awarded. The dive (and the flop) lives. I wasn't able to watch the two later games today, so I missed the turnabout in the performance of France. Saw a few highlights, though. Let's hope that France will play as well against Spain and give us all a great entertaining match. Before today, I would have expected Spain to win that match, but now, who knows. If France wins, I'm happy for Zidane, Henry, and the other veterans (and some of our members here ). If Spain wins, it would be a step toward erasing their unfortunate WC history (and I'm all for it, if that's what fate holds for them). Brad, the boards I refer to are called the "Big Soccer" boards (http://www.bigsoccer.com/). It seems to be a very well-established and popular place to discuss the sport, and there are apparently many, many forums (for different countries, club teams, and tournaments). So far I've only had time to investigate the "USA Men / News and Analysis" forum, which has hundreds of threads and a "real time" discussion atmosphere with many participants. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=180 The Spain forums are here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/index.php?page=Spain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I just wonder if France mightn't undo Spain... Spain have, let's face it (and, of course, through no fault of their own!), had it very easy in qualifying, whilst the French have struggled, but shown a markedly upward trajectory over their three games. Zidane I would hope will return for the next game, because I felt against Korea he was really showing flashes of his old self... If I had to have a bet, I suppose it would be reckless not to go for Spain, but I just have this nagging feeling about France... Couple this with Spain's legendary inability to achieve anything in major tournaments... P.L.M. - I quite agree about the best team not always winning. It's simply very difficult rationally to back anyone other than the best team! It'll be VERY interesting to see Argentina tonight. The second round's where it's at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Just for fun...this weekend's games: I'll take Germany 2 - 1 Sweden Argentina 2 - 0 Mexico England 1 - 1 Ecuador, England to win AET Portugal 1 - 0 Holland I could explain my choices for the victories (I think, possibly, the Holland - Portugal is the only one which is really tough to call), but not for the scores... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Italy haven't lost a competitive game within 90 minutes since 1986 apparently...(so the BBC commentator said)...that's a fairly extraordinary record! Correct, but we didn't win any major competitions since 1982, and that is an extraordinary record too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I suppose there is that . Mind you, over here, it's still 1966 and counting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I suppose there is that . Mind you, over here, it's still 1966 and counting... Advice from Wales - start being a rugby fan, Red. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I suppose there is that . Mind you, over here, it's still 1966 and counting... Actually we got a third place in 1990 and in 1994 lost the final against Brasil at penalties. A fourth place in European Championship 1988 and a second place in 2000. Not a bad score overall, but...not a victory. Talking about England the point is: if you had played as United Kingdom, maybe your palmares would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 The other thing I've noticed about the officiatig besides being really easy with the cards, is missing offsides calls. I've seen numerous call some wrongly called onside some wrongly call offside. I watch a lot of EPL and on first galnce when you think they've blown it, 99% of the time the replay shows the linesman to be right. In This World Cup the officials seem to be missing a whole lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Hawkins Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I suppose there is that . Mind you, over here, it's still 1966 and counting... Actually we got a third place in 1990 and in 1994 lost the final against Brasil at penalties. A fourth place in European Championship 1988 and a second place in 2000. Not a bad score overall, but...not a victory. Talking about England the point is: if you had played as United Kingdom, maybe your palmares would be better. This is an interesting one, the UK point. There's talk of them getting a UK team together so as to be able to compete in the London Olympics. Problem would be the politics - doubtless coaches would feel compelled to pick substandard players for the sake of representing each of the home nations (it'd be very hard to make a case for any Northern Irish players, for example, and, I suspect, only one or two non-English players would be there or thereabouts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcy62 Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Advice from Wales - start being a rugby fan, Red. MG I am a rugby fan, and at the last Six Nation, Italy played some good matches, if only the rugby match would last only 40'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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