Wynton Marsalis: Live at the House of Tribes

[CJ Shearn]

listened to the first two tunes so far but it sounds excellent, I saw Wynton live last year and he did a great show, his pianist Eric Lewis evengot into Cecil Taylor territory. Can't say I like a huge amount of Wynton's stuff, but this is an exception and "Green Chimneys" is pretty smoking. Picked this up along with used copies of Yellowjackets "Four Corners", "Greenhouse", Stanley Turrentine "More Than a Mood(!!!!!), and since it was a buy three get 4 free, bought back my copy of Big John's "Let Em Roll" which I stupidly sold. Ok, waiting for Chris A to jump on this thread and diss it. Uh oh, I said I bought Wynton *and* the Yellowjackets.

[John Tapscott]

This is the 2nd postive review I've read of this CD, and while I'm no Wynton promoter, I'm certainly interested in hearing this CD. I hope no one disses it until they've heard it, at least.

[Eric]

I listened to some of the samples onthe BN site and think I will check this out. Frankly, I find most of his stuff (well his writing and overall conception) to be non-interesting to me and have sold msot of it back over the years. As much as anything, I want to hear some live Wes Anderson, who I think is sadly underrecorded (check out his 1998 Village Vanguard lp on Leaning House - it smokes big time).

Edited September 1, 2005 by Eric

[marcello]

This recording has a different history.

The concert was a fund raiser for the charity and recorded on the fly, not intended for release. When the company heard the tapes, it was decided that it would make a good, inexpensive release and everybody was paid a very nominal fee; although I don't know about Wynton's fee.

There was some negotiation needed to get the releases from the sidemen because some, rightfully so, wanted more money for the recording. They has already, don't forget, donated their time for the original concert, including Wynton.

That said, it's supposed to be a nice little recording.

[jazzypaul]

I heard it and it was so-so. Green Chimneys is my favorite Monk tune, and I've most certainly heard better versions of it elsewhere.

Considering how talented this band is, it should be a lot hotter than it is.

[CJ Shearn]

I am digging it so far. makes me smile, so good thing.

[Brad]

Here's a very favorable review by Ben Ratliff in today's NYT:

Capitalizing on the unpretentious strengths of last year's "Magic Hour," Wynton Marsalis has made another small-group record that doesn't mess around. But "Live at the House of Tribes" goes quite a bit further. It's a close, slightly rough-sounding recording, with unerasable audience hollers and claps and talking. The concert was a fund-raiser at a small community theater in the East Village, one of Mr. Marsalis's favorite cultural centers in New York; there were about 50 people in the audience, which made that room crowded on Dec. 15, 2002.

"Electric Blue Watermelon" by the North Mississippi All Stars

The idea might sound contrived to you, since Mr. Marsalis is about as underground as Tiffany's. (He is also an international symbol of New Orleans, and is taking part in a number of fund-raisers to help the hurricane victims there, including one at Jazz at Lincoln Center's Rose Theater on Sept. 17.) But the goal isn't obscurantism, jazz in a bohemian bunker; it is directness, exactly the opposite.

"Live at the House of Tribes" is the kind of record that some people - myself included - have been wishing from him for a while. Nobody's saying he's done with writing oratorios, holiday musicals and long cross-discipline works. But it is good to get more of this: a supremely confident small group, with a small audience, pouncing on standards and tossing them around.

The contexts are well trod: a Thelonious Monk piece with a wicked rhythmic bounce ("Green Chimneys"), ballads ("You Don't Know What Love Is," "Just Friends"), bebop ("Donna Lee,"), sturdy 32-bar loading-trucks for midtempo improvisation ("What Is This Thing Called Love?") and New Orleans music (the Paul Barbarin parade tune "Second Line"). The record's action makes a U-shaped curve, starting high and abstract, dipping into serenity and logic, and ending in the New Orleans party atmosphere.

And parts of the performance wrap up into neat packages, like Mr. Marsalis's almost geometrically precise "Just Friends" solo. But here and there, as in the 16-minute "Green Chimneys," there's some fantastic dishevelment. A lot of that tune's improvising - by Mr. Marsalis, the alto saxophonist Wessell Anderson (with a slightly sharp, Eric Dolphy-ish intensity) and the pianist Eric Lewis - is textural stuff, the language of trilled and warped notes, clusters and long tones, repetition and abstraction.

Throughout the record, the playing almost never goes outside of tonality, and the rhythm section (Mr. Lewis, Kengo Nakamura on bass, Joe Farnsworth on drums, Orlando Q. Rodriguez on percussion) holds fast to swing. But swing brings out the best in these players; the music is fully alive and afire with ideas. It makes you want to have been there.

[CJ Shearn]

I love how "Green Chimneys" gets some funk on the outro.

[Rosco]

Wynton? Funk?

What will Stanley Crouch say?

[Alexander Hawkins]

Mr. Marsalis is about as underground as Tiffany's.

...

sturdy 32-bar loading-trucks for midtempo improvisation ("What Is This Thing Called Love?")

Two nice turns of phrase!

[jazzmessenger]

I only heard a couple tunes from BN Radio, and I liked it a lot. I will definitely pick up this CD.

[CJ Shearn]

yes to my ear it gets a little funky with that 2nd line thing at the end. Specially when Joe Farnsworth starts laying down 16th notes on the high hat.

[scottb]

Is the sound OK? The samples I listened to were kinda murky with a lot of crowd noise.

[montg]

The sound quality (based on what I heard from the samples) was kind of off-putting to me, but I haven't heard it on the stereo. Doubt I'll pick this up. Although I actually like WM's enthusiasm and lecturing about jazz (really), the 'trills' & 'warped notes' that seem to be prominent in his playing tend to turn me off. If I want to hear trills and warped notes, I'll check out Red Allen.

I don't want to appear negative, so here's something positive..Marciac Suite is a cool album.

[Christiern]

I only heard one track, and found it wanting.

[Joe M]

You guys who like this cd better watch out. You're going to lose all your street cred. It's not cool to like Wynton, ok?!!!

[Roundsound]

I managed to get an advance copy inexpensively. I thought it was a good hard bop style recording. Green Chimneys is the best cut. Donna Lee is done in a bebop fast style. Wes Anderson was better than I expected and indeed did have a little bit of Dolphy in him. (a little bit) I saw Eric Lewis live with Elvin Jones. He does have a dynamic offputting, somewhat avant chording style. This is not shown on this recording. Also he get some, but not enough solo space. WM sounds good, but doesn't pull any dramatic moments or any oh my goodness moments. But make no mistake he is good. Joe Farnsworth sounded very strong.

I must say that I am usually disappointed with WM. I have traded in a number of his sesssions, such as Magic Hour and the Snoopy CD. I have kept only kept the Monk, VV recordings, and Vol I standards.

[JSngry]

Listened to this a few times last night (through "the courtesy of a stranger"...), and it's not bad at all. First Wynton I've heard in decades (literally) that didn't send the Pissedoff-O-Meter into uncharted territory. There's absolutely nothing here that makes me feel as if The Vilest Of Evil is being spread across the Realm.

In a way, this is the "perfect" Wynton album, because it shows him to be exactly what he is - a supremely gifted technical player with some interesting ideas, but also one who just doesn't (can't?) dig in. On every tune except "What Is This Thing Called Love", the music doesn't really get dug in until Wynton stops playing. It's not that he doesn't swing, it's that he doesn't not swing, a syndrome that defies easy castigation, but also one that at the end of the day still leaves one feeling incomplete.

Here, without any grand concepts attempting to obstruct this reality, it becomes apparent once and for all that Wynton Marsalis is an excellent trumpeter and a good jazz trumpeter. Nothing more, and nothing less. For most people, that would be enough. But for a man who has, in my opinion, destroyed jazz by "saving" it, it's the final piece of the puzzle, conclusive proof once and for all that he talks the talk much better than he walks the walk. I for one am not surprised. I guess if you're a "believer", as a lot of the audience seems to have been, then you don't feel that way. But for me, as a non-believer, it's nice to be able to be able to hear him at face value for once, and even nicer still to be non-plussed without being severly agitated.

Now, having said that, I'd be lying if I said that this is a bad record. It's not, not at all. Wynton's playing is not without interest, even if the ancient back-handed compliment of "hey man, I dig what you're trying to do" applies more often than not. He plays some really good ideas, but he doesn't project the strength or character of personality, the "oomph" that a "real" jazz musician does in some form or fashion. His playing here is like a musical hologram - it looks real, but when you reach out to grab ahold of it, there's no "there" there". But he does make some attractive holograms here, and that's more than I've heard out of him in quite some time.

The rest of the group does possess this "oomph" to varying degrees, Anderson in particular, and it is the rest of the group that got me deeper into the music. On their own, they all bump it up a notch, and the results are fine by me, at least within the parameters of intent, which is really the only way I can react to this, or any other, type of music. If said intent is not something to which I feel an overwhelmingly strong/deep bond, hey, different strokes and all that. Yeah buddy...

Overall, this album sounds like a good Sharp Nine or some such label issue, trodding over previously trodden-over ground with enough new touches to make it casually attractive and to not make it totally regurgitative And like those labels' output, I'll say that I respect the musicianship involved, and find much to like on a "casual" level, even if there's nothing here to make me want to jump up and say god-DAMN!

If the Marsalis Mafia has hopes that this will be the album that makes everybody slap their foreheads in astonishment and say "WHOA! I've been WRONG about Wynton all these years! This is the SHIT!", well, sorry, it ain't gonna happen., But if the Anti-Wynton Alliance is expecting the objective among us to slag this one off as yet another exercise in Fatuous Folly, well, that ain't gonna happen either. It is what it is, and what it is is a good album of modest intent, and one where the leader plays the role of the Pretty Girl and the band the role of the Hip Chicks. Would that its leader would make more like it and be satisfied with being the good-but-unspectacular talent that he really is instead of trying to fit Size 9 feet into Size 13 shoes by changing the labels on all the boxes. That would be better for all concerned, especially, most likely, himself.

[John Tapscott]

Jim, fabulous review, and probably just as entertaining as the CD (which I haven't heard yet, but definitely will). What you have said about WM is as close to the truth of the situation as anyone has ever come.

[charlesp]

Very thoughtful review that explains my conflicting reactions to WM's recordings (and my habit of listening once or twice - never to pull out again).

Digression: I could modify a couple words and plagiarize the gist of Mr. Sangrey's articulate description to describe my reaction to Oscar Peterson.

Thanks

charles

Edited September 12, 2005 by charlesp

[tranemonk]

Well.... JS.... I'll suffice my opinion to say that I appreciate you posting of such a thorough review but one I nonetheless disagree with... (you might expect such.... see the Avatar.... ) ...

I disagree on two notes in particular....

1) I absolutely disagree that there is no "there there." I find many (not all) of Wynton's recordings contain a deep level of soul... (my word - ) ....and I do find emotional connection to this CD in particular....Green Chimneys comes to mind...

2) I also disagree on your point that "If the Marsalis Mafia has hopes that this will be the album that makes everybody slap their foreheads in astonishment and say "WHOA! I've been WRONG about Wynton all these years! This is the SHIT!", well, sorry, it ain't gonna happen." I have some very good jazz friend (an older African-American saxophonist comes to mind)... who has a strong critique of Wynton..... and I do believe he will really like this record....

And respectfully... I'm curious JS... Have you ever seen Wynton perform live??? And has this/would this/might this change your opinion???

I have seen him dozens of times (in a variety of contexts) and the one thing I find WM does NOT lack is soul... and emotionality in his music...

But needless to say... we respectfully disagree....

Edited September 12, 2005 by tranemonk

[Christiern]

Interesting. There was a time when his lack of emotional involvement bothered me less, because he had the technique and I thought the rest would come. IMO, it never did. I should say that I still have only heard 1 track from this album, but it left me cold and I was--as always in recent years--bothered by Wynton's strenuous attempt to sound earthy--by that, I mean his exaggerate growls and other effects, which are, IMO, overdone and poorly timed.

The Vanguard set had some decent tracks, but I still have not heard any recordings (or live performances, for that matter) by him that in any way moved me.

As for the killer album that will turn opinions around, didn't they say that about the first Blue Note set? You know, the one everyone has forgotten.

[JSngry]

And respectfully... I'm curious JS... Have you ever seen Wynton perform live??? And has this/would this/might this change your opinion???

←

No, I haven't. As to whether or not it would/might change my opinion, it would depend on how he played if/when I did. I'm sure that some nioghts are beeter than others, same as with everybody else. But after 20+ years and countless recordings, I think that the "norm" has been well-established, unless he's like Sonny Rollins and there's a gap between live and recorded that is almost surreal.

Wynton's die-hard fans, the "true believers", are always pulling something like this. If it's not "have you heard all of his records?", it's "have you heard him live?" or some such. The possibility that the guy has never really moved me just because he doesn't really move me is never allowed to be possible. It's always a case of "you just haven't heard the right stuff yet". Whatever...

No disrespect meant, and I'm sure that you meant none yourself, but this tactic, if that's what it is, reminds be of cult religions and/or the worst telemarketing, both of which I'm more than a little burnt out on.

[marcello]

Lester Bowie interviewed in The Wire, July 1993

'After that last interview I've started to seriously question just what (Marsalis's) involvement with the music is. I think it's detrimental. I think there's something evil somewhere. Because it's getting out of the realm of just not knowing or of being young. This is like a deliberate effort to sabotage the development of the music. I mean, if that's the way he's talking about Miles, he must think I'm a piece of shit...'

Q: You said once that you think Wynton is using the concept of the tradition to destroy the tradition

'Yeah, to destroy it. He's using a partial concept of the tradition. If you're talking about the tradition in jazz, what about the tradition of innovation, creativity, moving forward, being contemporary. Is that not part of the tradition of jazz? What about the tradition of having and maintaining an individual voice. Tradition has to be taking the music as a whole... What we were doing in the 60s was trying to be different - that's the whole idea. All the guys that taught us to be creative, so what were we going to do - come up with an imitation of them?'

I miss Lester Bowie.

[JSngry]

Yep. A lot of us do.

Edited September 13, 2005 by JSngry