What Do You Think About When You Play?

[md655321]

Well, after about 2 years off, due to the constraints of college, I'm finally getting back into learning jazz. Ive always played alot, and I teach alot, but I haven't been practicing alot, if you know what I mean.

A problem I'm having now is how to get past the mechanics of playing into really playing. I know my modes and scales and chords and arpeggios, but I find it impossible not to think about them while playing. So for those of you who are advanced, do you still think about note choices when you play? How do you approach new tunes? Can you play a newer tune without thinking about notes and scales while you play?

Another problem is that I am guitar problem. All these scale patterns have ruined me, and constantly find myself playing patterns and not music. But I still cant think quick enough to focus on just chord tones or whatever else.

I know how I approach blues, and that is so much more simple, and I dont think about root notes of scales at all when I play, is that what advanced players do when playing jazz? I find the complexity of it almost suffocating. With all the options available, what goes on in one's brain when tackling hard tunes?

Hopefully this makes some sense, I have a feeling alot of jazz musicians have gone through what I;m going through. Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

Edited October 10, 2005 by md655321

[Jim R]

With all the options available, what goes on in one's brain when tackling hard tunes?

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Among other things... and not necessarily in that order.

[Jim R]

But seriously, as a guitarist I think about the fingerboard, the shapes, positions, and where my fingers need to go next. I don't think about theory, except whatever tidbits may pop into my head during the process of playing. Also I'm an ear player for the most part (just read chord charts), which tends to free the mind.

Oops, you asked for opinions from advanced players.

[JSngry]

If you've applied your theory correctly, you'll have used it to learn where all the notes are, what they'll do under any given circumstance, and what they all sound like. The next step is to trust yourself that you know where they are and go about the business of putting them there. It's time to stop thinking and start listening - to yourself. Feel your own personal rhythms, and then put the notes to them. You know where all the notes are and what they'll sound like in any given combination, but do you know where you want to put them? That's what you gotta find, and the only place to find it is within yourself. It's not easy, but that's what you gotta do.

It takes a lifetime, and it starts now. Have fun!

[Free For All]

People always ask that question at clinics and such, and I've thought about it a lot.

My answer is along the lines of "My goal is to not think so much. My goal is to be able to spontaneously react to the music, the other musicians and myself by freeing my conscious mind from dealing with fundamental issues". Obviously not all of these fundamental issues are within your control, but many are, specifically those connected with playing your instrument, and knowing and accessing to the appropriate vocabulary.

I don't want to think consciously about how to play the instrument, or scales/modes/chords, or time or form. I think one of the most important reasons we practice is to get a lot of these things happening on a subconscious level. I want to close my eyes and listen to the music, and react accordingly. All those aforementioned things need to happen automatically. I like to use the analogy of driving a car- the first time you drive, you're very self-conscious about doing everything correctly and are focused on all the individual tasks. At some point those things become automatic and you just get in and go w/o thinking about it.

If something is wrong with time or form or something else (and it may not necessarily be your problem), conscious thought has to be focused upon those fundamentals, and a higher level of group interaction is delayed if not aborted. It's like a plane taxi-ing on the runway but is too heavy to take off.

I sometimes have dreams about playing in a situation where there are no obstacles at all between my imagination and what's coming out the bell of my horn. Those dreams are invigorating and lead me to believe that "if you can dream it, it's possible". That's the kind of thing that is an antidote to feelings of frustration or discouragement and encourages those practice sessions.

Edited October 11, 2005 by Free For All

[DukeCity]

I can relate to what Free For All said. Another analogy that is used frequently is that jazz is a language. I'm not multilingual (in the literal sense) but I've heard people say that you aren't totally fluent until you can speak the new language without first having to translate it in your head from your native language.

I think that being able to play a musically coherent solo, while still having to think about the changes, the form, technical stuff on your instrument, etc. is like being conversational in the language of improvisation; you can get your thoughts and ideas out, but the internal process you experience yourself may not feel as effortless as you might feel in casual conversation, hanging out with your friends.

So, keep practicing, keep learning about harmony, rhythm and melody, and keep listening to the music that you really dig. The deeper all that stuff gets inside you, the deeper your own music will be. (Come to think of it, I should take my own advice more often! )

[Soul Stream]

In truth, I think about a lot of things when I play, including...

-what song am I playing next, what does the set (audience) need now musically...

-what song I'm playing now

-what's on the t.v. by the bar

-this audience is great, good, sucks or doesn't exist

-this band is great, good, sucks or doesn't exist

-music

-dinner

-I wish musicians could rehearse

-why is my equipment breaking and can I make it till the end of the show

-how do the masters make this seem so easy

-why did I wear this shirt

-it's hot in here

-it's cold in here

-I wonder if I'm getting a parking ticket at this moment

-and about 1,000 other things, some musical, some not.

[AllenLowe]

well, sometimes it's "what the hell is the next chord" or "what key are we in," but if it's going well I see shapes in my head more than chords - and I don't mean the kind of shapes in that Sophia Loren picture, but the shapes of scales and intervals. On the guitar it's very easy to fall into certain patterns - one way to get out of that is to think in odd groupings - play phrases of 4 notes, 5 notes, two notes, triplet phrases - think melodically, unconventionally melodic if possible. In the middle of a chord, substitute something far away from that chord, and leave yourself the challenge of getting back to it. And if you get really stuck listen to the great improvisors, not necesarily to get specific ideas, but to shake yourself of the tried and true - I put on Bud Powell, or Julius Hemphill, Eric Dolphy, Bird, Django - anybody who is bursting with unconventional ideas-

Edited October 11, 2005 by AllenLowe

[Sundog]

This thread reminds me of something Pat Metheny said about improvisation which has always stuck with me...

"Improvising on chord changes is a lot like giving a speech about a fairly complex subject matter using fairly complex grammar- there is no way you can just wing it, you have to have done a lot of research into the subject and have a pretty wide ranging vocabulary that makes the language and all it's potential available to you."

[DukeCity]

This thread also reminds me of a classic bit from a National Lampoon album from the '70s. It's like a Mr. Rogers' neighborhood thing and he's interviewing a bass player. He asks what the player thinks about while he's playing and the guy says that he thinks about how much the gig pays, and then divides that by how many notes he's playing on the gig to determine how much he is getting for each note. Mr. Rogers is played by Christoper Guest and the bass player is Bill Murray. Absolutely hilarious, and you can get a short clip of it here. Listen to the clip of track #16.

[Soul Stream]

This thread also reminds me of a classic bit from a National Lampoon album from the '70s. It's like a Mr. Rogers' neighborhood thing and he's interviewing a bass player. He asks what the player thinks about while he's playing and the guy says that he thinks about how much the gig pays, and then divides that by how many notes he's playing on the gig to determine how much he is getting for each note. Mr. Rogers is played by Christoper Guest and the bass player is Bill Murray. Absolutely hilarious, and you can get a short clip of it here. Listen to the clip of track #16.

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Great bit, I actually remember hearing that before growing up. Didn't know it was Bill Murray! Great stuff.

[Jazz Kat]

Everything I'd rather be doing.

[nemo7]

getting laid

[mikeweil]

Realistically speaking, any of the subjects described here have come into my mind while playing, but I was best when I was just concentrating on what to play next and really nothing else and became "one" with the flow of things - which is thinking so fast that you're just thinking and not thinking about what you're thinking ...

Edited October 15, 2005 by mikeweil

[md655321]

A lot of great responses, thanks. Im definitely gonna pick up the Thinking in Jazz book.

Anyone care to answer specifically what you are thinking musically? Jazz seems to have an endless array of tricks. Do you guys play alot of licks? Do you approach things modal? How many scales do you use? How did you get comfortable playing certain scales or licks?

Im comfortable playing modes, but im having trouble with getting used to all the other scales like altered, lydian dominant, bebop and doing it comfortably. Especially when I know Im not supposed to think about them when Im playing.

Lastly, anyone know what the hell Eric Dolphy is thinking?

[7/4]

Lastly, anyone know what the hell Eric Dolphy is thinking?

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not much these days.

[7/4]

Another problem is that I am guitar problem. 

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People have been telling me that for years.

[7/4]

I tend to think about what chord I'm playing over instead of what scale to use and what chord is next.

Food and sex too.

[md655321]

Another problem is that I am guitar problem. 

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People have been telling me that for years.

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Guitar player of course. But I suppose I wasnt entirely inaccurate.

[Free For All]

Some people have a way with words.....other people.....no.....have......way......

-Steve Martin

[Guest]

"A" numero uno job supremo---- I think about the bassist. Things like "I get a kick out of you", "Love me tender, love me dear", "Whip them strings, Pops", "It wouldn't be make-believe if you believed in me like I believe in you" and sometimes :"I'll be glad when you're dead, you rascal you"!

1) If I'm playing through-composed music I'm thinking about the part I'm supposed to play, the part the composer heard for me or my instrument.

2) If I'm playing improvised music I'm thinking about the fact that maybe I shouldn't be aware of the fact that I'm thinking.

3) If I'm playing a sorry-ass piece of music I'm thinking about #1 and about just getting thru it. I also think about gettin' paid or gettin' lucky with some ham-hock eatin' drunk wildebeast in a tight skirt. Or things like, "I studied with Alan S. in Paris & went to N.Texas in Denton for THIS?" Or maybe, " Forgive them, oh Father, for they know not what they do..."

4) If I'm playing good music I'm thinking, "Damn! This is fun!"

5) As a drummer I often think about/try to be aware of the rhythmic harmonies; how the notes IN TIME and SPACE react with one another (See clave/guaguanco for an example of rhythmic harmony). The pitches are someone else's problem!....I'm just hear for the time being, or is it being time?

5) Last night I was thinking many things : wonder if the bassist's sub is gonna show up? I wish I could hear the singer better. Oops, that was an "interesting" way to end the song! Sure woulda been nice to have let the drummer know what the song was gonna be before the first note was played. Too bad string players don't have extra jacks to replace the shorted-out ones that give off the occassional loud-ass buzz from Hell. My my my, that was a very nicely played rendition, oh we so bad. And....alright alright here's the bass sub : hero of the moment.

.....the usual....a day in the life of...

Recommended reading : "Music and The Mind", by Anthony Schorr

Currently listening to "my station" on LAUNCHCAST.

[Guest]

Jack DeJohnette once said something along the lines of, "...when the musical idea and the technique come together in that split second". ZAP!

So, one can surmise that ya gotta work on body (bodily motions that ACT on the instrument itself) and soul (the musical idea : proactive and reactive). And then match one abilities of body and soul : ain't no use having an idea but the "flesh is weak" nor is there any use for "shredding" if there's no "rhyme or reason".

Jack be nimble. Jack be quick. Jack jump over the conscious shtick.

[casanovas347]

What i'm thinking while playing?

1. "What the heck i'm doing here on stage? What kind of stick with strings i'm holding here and why......."

or

2. "where is my organissimo-cd?"

3 1/4.....best: i'm thinking of "not to thinking anything about thinking"....

i don't play jazz...so don't take it too serious

[Guest bluenote82]

I usually think about death when I play. How cold it is, how empty it is, how final it is, how inevitable it is, things like that....

[Chuck Nessa]

May you reach your goal.