Alternate Takes

[Guest]

I was listenning to a session last night where the alt takes were right in line with the first takes and I felt like it diminished the session listenning experience to me. I don't mind alt takes and I know some people who love them, but was just wondering where most people fell on this.

If there is a better forum for this poll, I'm happy to have it moved. I didn't want to intrude on the vinyl, reissues, album of the week, etc. threads.

Looking forward to your responses.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think alternative takes are often interesting. However, to maximise the interest, one really needs to know the original take quite well, so as to be able to spot differences. If one hasn't heard the album before, it makes sense to be able to play the original LP through by itself quite a few times, so that one can make these comparisons. That is not helped if the alternative takes are spread among the "original" ones. Best to put them at the end, I think.

MG

[Free For All]

Since most of the time the cuts on a recording are put in an order for a reason (usually the preference of the artist) it seems to take away from the overall impression of the recording to have the alts interrupt the order.

This is also what IMHO is a problem with downloading single cuts from the internet- you get no sense of the overall recording. To me a tune can have an entirely different feeling when it's heard in the context of the entire side.

The other problem is that frequently no one (I'm talking mostly about students) bothers to seek out the personnel and other pertinent info- they tell you the name of the tune they downloaded but can't tell you who played on it (other than the leader).

[JSngry]

Depends on if they're being presented in the context of "bonus material" or "session reconstruction".

If it's the former, I usually prefer them at the end. If it's the latter, I like them sequentially, and I like the whole session presented likewise, in recording order.

You can learn a lot either way.

[brownie]

Alternate Alternates

[Quincy]

The past 2 nights I listened to discs 2 & 3 of the Sidney Bechet Mosaic Select. These 2 are loaded with multiple takes. Last night I wasn't in the mood, so I kept the remote nearby and hit >>| to skip past the alternates. Tonight I played every track, and other than one or two takes was enthralled by the differences (highly recommend the set by the way.)

As I'm usually too lazy to program the player, it's not that hard to keep the remote nearby and click by 'em when you don't want to hear them. Though it was nice to get rid of the problem with Waltz For Debby once & for all with the Evans Complete Village Vanguard sets and get the 3 discs in order.

So do the harddrive people have a quick & easy "skip alts" choice in their programming menu?

Edited February 10, 2006 by Quincy

[John L]

For me, it depends on the music. I usually like alternates at the end. But there are exceptions. One is Charlie Parker. One of the greatest joys of listening to Bird is to hear how his ideas progressed in the course of multiple takes. Think of Bird of Paradise, for example. Hearing the two takes of Embraceable You and Parker's Mood one after the other, or the three takes of Crazeololgy in a row, is never less than thrilling, much better than waiting until the end of the masters for the alternates.

On the other hand, when RCA programmed all the Jelly Roll Morton alternates in order, that was a real drag.

Edited February 10, 2006 by John L

[EKE BBB]

...

On the other hand, when RCA programmed all the Jelly Roll Morton alternates in order, that was a real drag.

Yes! I always use the program function of my stereo when I play the JRM Victor Centennial box-set.

[Dave James]

I generally prefer them at the end of a session, especially when the cuts in question are lengthly. Look no further than The Complete CBS Buck Clayton Jam Sessions Mosaic and you'll see what I mean. I agree with what others have said, i.e. that if an alternate is different enough from the master take, then having it next door is fine. Problem is, how do you define "different"? Certainly, the person making the placement decision may look at what "different" is in a way that I would not. I guess all I'd ask is that there be careful consideration given to this; that the producer not approach a given reissue with any pre-conceived notions.

I also think that many times alternates are just included to ramp up the playing time, making it appear to be a better value than it actually is. That tends to be the case with more than a few Fantasy reissues.

Up over and out.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Dave James

[jazzbo]

I voted with the majority though I'll take them anywhere. . . I want to have them as opposed to not have them if they'r available. Value for money is a factor, as well as just having another version to listen to on occasion. (I know how to program a cd player. A vcr. . .well. . . . )

[Peter Johnson]

I almost never rip the alt takes when I put music in my ipod. Which means I rarely go back and listen to them on the CD. Like them for "academic" purposes, but don't "need" them otherwise.

[mikeweil]

I miss the option "It depends".

I think there are some sessions where listening to several alternates can be fun, like with Wes Montgomery, who never played the same solo twice, or Monk, where you witness the process of re-composing. On other sessions it can be a drag. But then there is the programming function. It depends ...

[Chuck Nessa]

Let us be rigid and set some standards! Forget all the rest of the crap, we need our life experiences to meet some standard. Uniformity is good for all.

My answer is Yes, No, Sometimes, front, back and mixed.

Depends on the player(s), session(s) and audience(s). Do you satisfy the biggest checkbook or................