BFT 33 1/3 Discussion (Disc one and only)

[JSngry]

Yeah, I've gone back and read the thread, and all I can say is wow. Never would have suspected that that kind of music would have come from that guy. I only know him through his commercial work, which was always very tasty but nothing like this. I've also heard those sides praised over the years, but looking at the personnel, I was expecting something....different than this. So I passed them up in all their incarnations. My bad, it would seem.

[mikeweil]

Used copies of the twofer I linked shouldn't be too hard to find .....

I, too, was skeptical at the time, but had a listen at my shop, and that was about it.

Edited March 7, 2006 by mikeweil

[king ubu]

Thanks a lot Randy for still sending me a copy of your disc!

Below is what I typed up in real-time during the first (and so far only - had the disc in the mail last night) listen:

#1 Eddie Gomez-like bass…don’t like it that much. Could be Bill Evans? I am not familiar yet with his later recordings, although I own a big chunck of them… bass solo is much more to my liking than accompaniment. Drummer is a bit too light for my likings…

#2 Folksy stuff… ECM? (upon entrance of soprano sax) Garbarek? Percussion is rather nice… all in all a nice track, but not one that I’d play all too often. Probably some seventies ECM stuff? Not sure who the pianist could be, but I think I like him best. Bass does not provide enough bottom, really… some of those small piano licks remind me very much of Jarrett, but the overall groove does not sound a lot like him… or could this be his Yurpean quartet? I have one CD, or maybe even two, but have only played them once and that was a long time ago… not sure if Christensen does all that percussion stuff…

#3 Again that bass sound… though this time the bassist goes down a bit from time to time… tenor gets pretty wild, but I’m not sure how well this kind of blowing meshes with the rest of the band. Something bugs me about sound here… ECM again? Drums sound so bright, bass so clean and non-deep… but still probably my favourite track so far. No guesses… theme is not really fitting with the tenor blow-out…

#4 A post-Trane hymn? The saxes fit together nicely. Sound, alas, is not much greater… nice first tenor solo! Not sure it goes anywhere, but I like it quite a bit! Second tenor is ok, too.

#5 Somehow it seems all the music so far is from a period that is not one covered very well in my collection, roughly 1975-1990, I guess… I need to overcome the sound of these recordings quite a bit to enjoy the actual playing… same again on this cut.

Tenor and trombone make a nice frontline, though. But again the drummer doesn’t really do it for me (didn’t do it on #4 either, I’m afraid). This is not my favourite cut… not that I really dislike it (except for the drummer), but it just doesn’t do a lot for me. Nice flute over the outro vamp!

#6 This starts out great! A simple blues… maybe in the footsteps of some of those themes on “Coltrane Plays the Blues”… and then again the out of tempo part… trumpet has a haunting quality. And the tenor is there, marking full presence with that first separate tone. Very nice! This is older than the preceeding tracks… I guess I should know this and I may even have it on a CD I barely know… some Wayne Shorter Blue Note? Being away from my collection I cannot compare, but this could be Freddie Hubbard? Thus it would be from “Speak no Evil”? No, wait, it’s Lee Morgan? So AMG tells me it’s the title-cut, right? Great one! Definitely my favourite track so far! Rhythm section is great, but then of course I love Elvin! And Workman’s short bass spot it excellent, too!

(Ok, I just checked the sample on AMG… glad I was able to pin at least one cut down!)

#7 Sounds very familiar! Hmm… not sure if I ought to know this. Another nice cut, for sure! Very nice trombone solo! This may turn out embarrassing… I am really not sure if I know it, but I like it!

#8 The good run continues! Reminds me a lot of the fourth movement of Coltrane’s “A Love Supreme”… but then it’s most certainly not Coltrane, is it? When the beat gets stready (and rocking!) and soprano #1 takes off things get even more Trane-like… but the sound of the soprano player as long as he’s wailing is rather different (when he does those little squeals high up he sounds quite like Trane, though!). Now having Trane himself in such a two soprano setting would be something! Drummer does his Elvin? Or is that Elvin himself? Maybe even some Elvin recording? (I still have to get that Mosaic…)

Ok, this is Elvin himself, I’d say. McCoy, for sure. Hmm… now this starts sounding more and more like the classic Coltrane quartet… hmm… I am so clueless!

Whatever this is, it is great!

#9 Oy! Cello and trumpets and drums and basses… very nice! Dave Douglas?

I am clueless again, but this is one more great track – I enjoy the cello a lot here, and all the others do very fine, as well!

So in short, I enjoyed the second half of the CD a lot, but found the first half just ok. No offense to be taken, just different tastes, I guess.

Thanks a lot, Randy, for putting this disc together!

[king ubu]

Three tracks positively identified and one more for which the leader and one sideman have been mentioned.

Comments, but no conjecture yet on tracks 2,3,4,7 and 9.

OK, Randy. Track #8 positively ID'd. A little tricky because of course it's Coltrane and the quartet in '65, but the two saxophones are due to a bit of Trane overdubbing. The track is "Living Space" (Impulse).

Oh, thanks for pinning that one down! So it indeed is Trane! It got more and more likely as the track continued, but since I never got "Living Space" (the disc), I guess this overdubbing experiment so far escaped me... I also thought I recognized Jimmy Garrison, not sure McCoy and Elvin.

[king ubu]

What's that about #6 being Nathan Davis??? Mike, am I out to be the one most embarassing poster in this thread, tell me!!!

[king ubu]

I have the Grolnick twofer, but haven't played it a loooong time... too long! It's a very good one!

[mikeweil]

What's that about #6 being Nathan Davis??? Mike, am I out to be the one most embarassing poster in this thread, tell me!!!

Me, too ...... ..... have the first track as well and didn't get it either. Our collections are too big.

[king ubu]

What's that about #6 being Nathan Davis??? Mike, am I out to be the one most embarassing poster in this thread, tell me!!!

Me, too ...... ..... have the first track as well and didn't get it either. Our collections are too big.

True! Of course I have the great MPS twofer... but, hey, if I had a wife to drive around, I would have certainly pinned the Grolnick, as well!

[Д.Д.]

OK, sorry for taking this long to listen to it. Here I my notes as I listen to it for the first time.

1. Bass jumps out immediately – is this a bassist’s session? Good bass sound – a bit too good, probably (too much of it). Ron Carter? I am absolutely not familiar with Carter’s post-Davis work. This is all too polite for my tastes. Carter or not, but piano does remind of Wynton Kelly. These bass solos are not too interesting, even forced, IMO. And this self-effacing drumming is just too straight – is he afraid to play anything that would distract the bassist from his noodling?

OK, but too generic and safe. Not something I would be interested in listening to again. Bassist is a good technician.

2. Oh, some romantic piano. Is this English horn? This sounds very British to me – all this restrained romanticism… Good melody, but a bit cheesy, no?.. not just a bit… This cymbals drumming is quite painful if you listen in headphones (as I do; I take these BFT seriously ). Oh, tablas. No, this is just too cheesy. Although, I like the English horn sound (or is this saxello, or something like this?). I don’t want to think this is Elton Dean. The piano solo is OK, if a bit simplistic (not in execution, but in ideas). All too in-the-pocket and danceable – I am waiting for clap-along to start. Piano solo is too long, and just way to decorative. It’s 5 minutes, and I am ready for it to end.

And here is the clapping. No, not for me.

3. More 90s sterile studio sound. Sorry, I can’t maintain interest listening to something like this – it is all so watered-down to my tastes. Piano solo. All are good musicians, no doubt, but it is just so calculated – just like some (very straightforward) formula. No searching, no stretching, no challenge (for themselves, other musicians or listener). At 2 minutes I am ready for the next one.

This piano up-and-down runs, weren’t they already outdated clichés in the 50s? Ok, let’s hear what saxophonist says. Coltrane-ish sound. Also very formulaic to me. No. Sorry for being so negative. Again piano? This is how I imagine what Michael Brecker would play.

4. Oh, this also somehow sounds British to me. A lot of bass here as well. Quite pleasant interplay between the horns. First solo. Is this tenor or alto? Embarrassing as it is, I often fail to tell them apart. Some dumbed-down Pharoaisms? Second solo. Quite an ugly sound. Not bad, but also a bit generic. No this is alto (boy, am I knowledgeable). Nice sound. Would be nice if the rhythm section was a bit more varied. OK, but again, not something I feel I would be interested in hearing. Piano. Sounds like the same guy as on one of the earlier tracks here. Now, I am not getting it, this is supposed to be “creative music” – and this is probably ‘90s – what’s the point of playing the music exactly the way it could have been played late 60s? Where is the creative element?

5. A lot of bass in this BFT. This bass sounds good! I should know this bassist. Why do I keep thinking British listening to all this stuff? I like the trombone sound, and the solo is quite good overall. Piano guy again sounds like the guy from track 2. Is this Keith Tippett, by chance? Pretty weak solo, IMO – not development – just restating the same thing with slight variations, very classical-lite approach. And these boom-boom rock-ish drums make it all sound quite dated (70s?). Tenor is good. Beautiful sound. I think he would have benefited form less rock-ish backing – something more flexible and challenging. Bass solo. Nice, but just too locked into the whole theme (and this straight drumming at the background don’t help much). Flute is good., but I am tired of it all already, and this repeated riff is getting more and more annoying.. Long track.

6. Opening is too pretentious for my tastes. The tenorist listened to Coltrane and Joe Henderson a lot. Flugelhorn guy I should know. He is OK. I think thee is some dis-coordination I the between bass and drums – somebody is playing a bit more than probably needed. Nothing really I could hold on to here.

7. This is a very stylistically uniform compilation. It’s 2 minutes already –will they finish this introduction or what? OK, we got into piano trio stuff, very mainstream again. Also feels like a very long track.

8. This sounds not bad. More interesting heavy Elvin-type drumming, finally. We are going to do some improvising, aren’t we (it’s 3 minutes already)? Is this Pharoah on soprano? – quite good, although a bit lazy (in terms of searching for something new – this is a fairly predictable solo… but nicely played). Somebody is really trying to play like Elvin, but I think it’s a bit too heavy-handed for the man himself. And now we have somebody trying to play like McCoy. I don’t like McCoy too much, and definitely don’t enjoy his clones. Or this could be McCoy himself. Does not matter – the solo is so-so, anyway. More soprano, and again quite good. Overall quite a good. At the end they even quote some Coltrane. If this is some ‘90s recording, I am not getting the point. But still most enjoyable track for me here (so far). I like this ending with doubling sopranos!

9. Bass again . Oh, I didn’t expect the violin here! This starts like something interesting! I think it is well constructed – this trumpet/violin interplay. Now, get me some solos. I like the drumming – this is light, creative, making the others sound good (Cyrille?). Nice violin sol (Bang? haven’t listened to him for a long time, and too lazy to check now), there is this African primitivism and directness. Oh, this was short for a solo! Trumpet is extremely familiar – Wadada Leo Smith? O Baikida Carroll. The solo is not too spectacular, but I liked what rhythm section was doing behind it.This is something Soul Note would release – good American 70s free jazz. This track I liked the most.

Randy, thanks for preparing this compilation. I really appreciate the effort, and specifically allocate time to listen to it with due attention. Our tastes obviously differ a lot, so I hope you are not offended by my overall lack of interest for this music. It is well-payed, but it lacks everything that I am interested in hearing - experiment, excitement and surprise. I of course didn’t recognize anybody here, and I dropped enough statements that would uncover my ignorance.

[couw]

...typing while I am listening.

een. sounds like a relative recent ditty. the recurring piano plingplongplong is a bit meagre to hold it all up, but the playing is better than the tune I guess. nice if a bit pedestrian.

twee. somehow this is really nice, but then again it gets a bit boring. I guess I'd be real happy if this were playing on the radio while driving into the sunset with another 1000km to go, but it's not something I'd play at home. There are some truly cheesy elements just at the end of the piano solo and when the horn joins in again. Brrrr. That's oboe right? is this that Oregon band maybe?

drie. awww damn Randy, you are taking this even further??! This sounds real weird, the stereo spread makes it really hollow, with the horn in the centre sounding more like sucking air than blowing it. Strange. The piano is nice I guess, but damn if I don't want to switch to something less lazy and uninterested. Even the sax when going "wild" sounds as if he's in one of these miniature driving parks where you have all the big people street signs but on a much smaller scale for the kids to learn the rules. The sound just puts me off here.

vier. drats! I have this but damn if I could put a name on it... tenor sounds like Pharoah. drats again! nice positive tune.

vijf. rock bass, rock drums and then straight ahead stuff on top. 's Nice! if maybe a bit "simplistic" here and there, there is a lot to make up for that. Like the bone player, nice Kneppery sound. This gets better by the while, the bass is really driving this stuff. And flute too!

zes. this starts off big and then cowers back into familiar territories. Not that anything's wrong with that. That Woody Shaw? Lovely bass BTW. Yes, this is good.

zeven. the theme initially conjures images of Albert Ayler. Majestic beauty combined with unexpected twists and depth. It all continues much more blahblah but I like the bone and the long windedness isn't getting on my nerves so there you go!

acht. Well, duh!

negen. oo! I like this. No clue but this is like walking through a busy frantic town where everything happens everywhere but with slower patterns on top.

Thanks much Randy. Nice how this covered some of the more accessable territories while scratching at the bumpy ride stuff as well. And all in ONE disk

[randyhersom]

I had posted a couple of clues at one point, but I think I'll post answers tomorrow and let the next BFT get underway. I have greatly enjoyed reading your comments.