Terri Hinte has been fired by Concord Records.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's all very well to assume this is part of a great plan to run Fantasy's operation into Concord's, but no one gets sacked on 3 days notice as part of a grand plan; not unless there's something odd going down.

I don't know what the law is in the US, but I bet Terri had a contract that specified that she had to be given more notice, against which they'd have had to compensate her; at arguably greater expense than keeping her on for the full period of her notice.

MG

You obviously know nothing about employment law in the US, or what kind of protections exist and don't exist for most employees.

That's what I said. So, go on...

MG

[Christiern]

Don't mind Dan, he's just being Gould.

[Dan Gould]

It's all very well to assume this is part of a great plan to run Fantasy's operation into Concord's, but no one gets sacked on 3 days notice as part of a grand plan; not unless there's something odd going down.

I don't know what the law is in the US, but I bet Terri had a contract that specified that she had to be given more notice, against which they'd have had to compensate her; at arguably greater expense than keeping her on for the full period of her notice.

MG

You obviously know nothing about employment law in the US, or what kind of protections exist and don't exist for most employees.

That's what I said. So, go on...

MG

Do you really want me to? Most employees in America are "at will" - I can quit whenever I want to, you can fire me whenever you want to. This doesn't mean that employers don't make some allowances regarding notice of termination and severance pay. But most employers are free to give the notice they feel like giving, be it 0 days, 3 days, two weeks, or whatever, and pay severance if and only if they want to.

[mailman]

It's all very well to assume this is part of a great plan to run Fantasy's operation into Concord's, but no one gets sacked on 3 days notice as part of a grand plan; not unless there's something odd going down.

I don't know what the law is in the US, but I bet Terri had a contract that specified that she had to be given more notice, against which they'd have had to compensate her; at arguably greater expense than keeping her on for the full period of her notice.

MG

You obviously know nothing about employment law in the US, or what kind of protections exist and don't exist for most employees.

That's what I said. So, go on...

MG

Do you really want me to? Most employees in America are "at will" - I can quit whenever I want to, you can fire me whenever you want to. This doesn't mean that employers don't make some allowances regarding notice of termination and severance pay. But most employers are free to give the notice they feel like giving, be it 0 days, 3 days, two weeks, or whatever, and pay severance if and only if they want to.

They treated her like dirt. Three days notice. That's worse than like dirt. The will treat the rest of us (the customers) worse. These are sad sad days for the buisness end of Jazz.

[Guest Chaney]

Farewell to Fantasy

Pioneer Berkeley label sold to Concord Records

Carolyn Said, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, December 4, 2004

(...)

Concord Music Group will operate out of both Berkeley and Beverly Hills. Although the landmark Fantasy Building at 10th and Parker Streets in Berkeley was not included in the sale, Concord will rent office space there and will use the Fantasy Recording Studios, according to Terri Hinte, Fantasy spokeswoman.

Hinte said there undoubtedly will be some workforce shifts, but not for a few months. Fantasy has 80 employees; Concord has about 40.

(...)

Little did she know...

[GA Russell]

My dealings with Terri Hinte were always very pleasant and efficient. She was a very nice lady to deal with, and good at her job too.

[Ken Dryden]

I spoke to Terri not long after the Concord/Fantasy merger was announced. I think she saw the writing on the wall but decided to hold on, as her job wasn't immediately in danger and it is very difficult to give up a good paying job with 30+ years invested. Still, three days notice and the dinky severance pay that they probably gave her is an insult to any valuable employee.

I'm well aware that many employees are hired "at will," though in some states and organizations, it is easier to take legal action to achieve a better settlement offer or reinstatement. I imagine that Terri is probably better going out on her own, just imagine the depth of her rolodex file for musicians wishing to reach jazz critics!

[Dave James]

Dan,

I don't think any of us know whether Ms. Hinte was laid off of fired, but if she was fired then it has to be for cause. Unless, of course, Concord wants to entertain the possibility of a a wrongful dismissal lawsuit. I have hired and fired many people in my day and where I come from, you simply do not launch someone unless there is a well documented history of performance related problems. The process entails action plans, regularly scheduled follow-up discussions, progress reports and the like. On the other hand, if Concord laid her off and did so with only three days notice, I think that tells you all you need or want to know about the new caretakers of the Fantasy jazz catalog.

Up over and out.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Dave James

[Ken Dryden]

Dan,

I don't think any of us know whether Ms. Hinte was laid off of fired, but if she was fired then it has to be for cause. Unless, of course, Concord wants to entertain the possibility of a wrongful dismissal lawsuit. I have hired and fired many people in my day and where I come from, you simply do not launch someone unless there is a well documented history of performance related problems. The process entails action plans, regularly scheduled follow-up discussions, progress reports and the like. On the other hand, if Concord laid her off and did so with only three days notice, I think that tells you all you need or want to know about the new caretakers of the Fantasy jazz catalog.

Up over and out.

Dave: I'm not an attorney, but I believe that Concord simply eliminated the Fantasy Jazz publicist position, a way that a number of organizations get aroung "firing" someone. The idea that Terri Hinte did anything to merit a dismissal is laughable to those of us who have worked with her for years, or in many cases, decades.

Isn't that also a method of getting around a wrongful dimissal lawsuit?

I have worked for several employers that have used the elimination of a position as a way to terminate an employee. That way there's no damage to the person's reputation and obviously does not necessarily imply that there was a reason for letting go of the employee.

So, in a sense, I believe that Terri may not have been "fired" but a victim of "reduction in force." In either case, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Ken Dryden

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It's all very well to assume this is part of a great plan to run Fantasy's operation into Concord's, but no one gets sacked on 3 days notice as part of a grand plan; not unless there's something odd going down.

I don't know what the law is in the US, but I bet Terri had a contract that specified that she had to be given more notice, against which they'd have had to compensate her; at arguably greater expense than keeping her on for the full period of her notice.

MG

You obviously know nothing about employment law in the US, or what kind of protections exist and don't exist for most employees.

That's what I said. So, go on...

MG

Do you really want me to? Most employees in America are "at will" - I can quit whenever I want to, you can fire me whenever you want to. This doesn't mean that employers don't make some allowances regarding notice of termination and severance pay. But most employers are free to give the notice they feel like giving, be it 0 days, 3 days, two weeks, or whatever, and pay severance if and only if they want to.

Struth! Thank you, Dan. I assume the idea of someone having a contract is laughable. Everyone does here.

MG

[jazzbo]

Dan,

I don't think any of us know whether Ms. Hinte was laid off of fired, but if she was fired then it has to be for cause. Unless, of course, Concord wants to entertain the possibility of a a wrongful dismissal lawsuit. I have hired and fired many people in my day and where I come from, you simply do not launch someone unless there is a well documented history of performance related problems. The process entails action plans, regularly scheduled follow-up discussions, progress reports and the like. On the other hand, if Concord laid her off and did so with only three days notice, I think that tells you all you need or want to know about the new caretakers of the Fantasy jazz catalog.

Up over and out.

What more do you need to know about my employers? Over the past five years they have halved the size of our agency by "reduction in force." If ninety percent of these people were given three days advance notice they'd been shocked! Most are told to clean out their desk immediately and handed a few boxes. A lot of these were employees with a long history within the agency. The first whack was more than half the middle management of the agency. Suddenly a large amount of agency specific knowledge and history was just out the door. And suddenly people in power were doing things that simply were not done in the past, shady and suspect things among a few innovations.

The irony is that this is obstensibly done "to save the state money." But instead eventually the services some of these employees performed are farmed out to private contractors, many of which just happen to be "connected" to people with the ability to choose contracts. The same money doesn't somehow buy the same quality or quantity of services from contractors. And a lot of the services to other agencies and the public are just let fall by the wayside; those who are left behind try their best but can only do so much.

I've heard similar horror stories from other agencies in my state, from state agency employees of other states, and from some private companies. But somehow Texas seems to have the most grisly and gritty stories. . . .

It's a shame what happened to Terri.

Edited June 26, 2006 by jazzbo

[Dave James]

Reduction in force (RIF) is just a bureaucratic euphemism for layoffs. However, to do this to an employee with years of meritorious service as appears to be the case here, is beyond draconian. That's why I said in my earlier post that it tells you all you need to know about new ownership. Like so many other businesses that are downsizing, it's all about the bottom line. To Hell with the people who made the bottom line possible.

Up over and out.

[jazzbo]

Well, I've seen this done to dozens and dozens of meritorious employees. I think it's awful. But I don't think in this day and time it's "unusual." I wish it were.

[RDK]

Unfortunate all around, I agree, but the fact that Terri was given only three days notice isn't necessarily a big deal. They may have given her a nice severance package - and should after 30 years! We really don't know, but unless she was fired for cause (very unlikely!) i doubt she was simply shown the door without any severance.

[Ken Dryden]

She didn't get a "nice severence check." Trust me...

[JSngry]

So, ok. I never really dug Concord when they were "good".

Tell me again why my dislike should not now become full-fledged contempt.

Edited June 27, 2006 by JSngry

[Chuck Nessa]

So, ok. I never really dug Concord when they were "good".

Tell me again why my dislike should not now become full-fledged contempt.

For starters, the most interesting Concord dates are deleted.

[Guest akanalog]

it seemed to me many of the players in the concord stable (not all i know) were caucasian.

i don't think this was directly a decision of concord decision makers, but my question would by why that sort of boring neo-traditionalist whitney balliet likes it kind of music was created by mostly caucasian musicians?

actually i guess many of the african american musicians on concord were of an older generation (gene harris, ray brown) whereas the younger guys all seemed caucasian? what was the deal with this? i was not born or a little kid at the time but was it because at this time the loft scene and the disco commercial funk scenes were where the african american musicians were primarily?

Edited June 27, 2006 by akanalog

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

it seemed to me many of the players in the concord stable (not all i know) were caucasian.

i don't think this was directly a decision of concord decision makers, but my question would by why that sort of boring neo-traditionalist whitney balliet likes it kind of music was created by mostly caucasian musicians?

actually i guess many of the african american musicians on concord were of an older generation (gene harris, ray brown) whereas the younger guys all seemed caucasian? what was the deal with this? i was not born or a little kid at the time but was it because at this time the loft scene and the disco commercial funk scenes were where the african american musicians were primarily?

That's what I always thought about Concord. There were plenty of African American artists around in Concord's early days - you have only to look at the records that Muse issued - some of which were pretty funky, I'll agree - to find a load of them making all kinds of music.

Sure, there were people like Kenny Burrell, Plas Johnson, Red Holloway who made albums for the Concord. And sure there were a bunch of Afro-Cuban musicians like Mongo Santamaria on Concord Picante. But the feeling I had was that Concord saw its business as making records for middle class white customers. That, naturally, affected the artists it signed up. And, equally naturally, it affected sales to me.

MG

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

so....firing is when u suck or do something bad and u are fired, and being layed off is when its the companys fault and u dont do anything bad???

[Dan Gould]

so....firing is when u suck or do something bad and u are fired, and being layed off is when its the companys fault and u dont do anything bad???

Soon as you join the work force, Aric, you'll learn the difference.

[Dan Gould]

it seemed to me many of the players in the concord stable (not all i know) were caucasian.

i don't think this was directly a decision of concord decision makers, but my question would by why that sort of boring neo-traditionalist whitney balliet likes it kind of music was created by mostly caucasian musicians?

actually i guess many of the african american musicians on concord were of an older generation (gene harris, ray brown) whereas the younger guys all seemed caucasian? what was the deal with this? i was not born or a little kid at the time but was it because at this time the loft scene and the disco commercial funk scenes were where the african american musicians were primarily?

That's what I always thought about Concord. There were plenty of African American artists around in Concord's early days - you have only to look at the records that Muse issued - some of which were pretty funky, I'll agree - to find a load of them making all kinds of music.

Sure, there were people like Kenny Burrell, Plas Johnson, Red Holloway who made albums for the Concord. And sure there were a bunch of Afro-Cuban musicians like Mongo Santamaria on Concord Picante. But the feeling I had was that Concord saw its business as making records for middle class white customers. That, naturally, affected the artists it signed up. And, equally naturally, it affected sales to me.

MG

I am troubled by the implicit charge of racism, either on the part of Carl Jefferson, or on the part of the people who purchased Concord records.

I don't think anyone should doubt Carl Jefferson's love of the art form and its players, and the fact that he gave record dates to Holloway, Plas, Ray Brown, Art Blakey, etc., at a time when Jackie McLean was recording Monuments, ought to be applauded. Perhaps the perception of a "lily white" roster in the under-40 age group was a function of the prominence of Scott Hamilton and Warren Vache, but you might also want to consider that they are two guys who played the music Carl wanted to record and put out.

Its also a fact that James Williams recorded three times for Concord at the start of his career, and Jefferson also gave the Clayton brothers their first recording opportunity. And from 1992-1995, Rickey Woodard recorded three times for the label. But all of those recordings fit into the Concord approach of mainstream-to-bop.

[Ken Dryden]

I can't believe that this thread has detoured from Terri Hinte to a discussion of whether or not there were sufficient African-American artists on the Concord Roster during its heyday. I never knew that there was supposed to be a quota system for jazz labels, let alone band personnel, composers of songs recorded or played on a set, etc.

Carl Jefferson hardly ignored African-American artists, though he may not have recorded them as frequently as others. From what I've heard talking to artists who left Concord, Jefferson was somewhat like Norman Granz in that he recorded some artists regardless of potential sales, though he evidently was also so abrasive that he drove away several of his key artists.

Other Concord leaders twho haven't been mentioned in this thread include: Art Blakey, Hank Jones, Jeannie & Jimmy Cheatham, Stanley Cowell, Art Farmer, Jon Faddis, Harold Land/Blue Mitchell, Carmen McRae, Ernestine Anderson, Joe Newman/Joe Wilder, Dennis Rowland, Marvin Smitty Smith, Mary Stallings, Maxine Sullivan, Rufus Reid (TanaReid), Billy Taylor, Clark Terry, Frank Wess, Frank Foster and Gerry Wiggins

Then there is the Maybeck series with Jaki Byard, Sir Roland Hanna, Kenny Barron, Kenny Drew, Jr., George Cables, James Williams, Barry Harris, John Hicks, Ellis Larkins, Cedar Walton, plus some of the others listed above.

Also don't forget that the young saxophonist Jesse Davis made six CDs as a leader for Concord, Ricky Woodard a few as well.

I didn't even begin to look over my list of Concord LPs and I'm sure there are others represented there.

At its peak, Concord was putting out 5-6 new releases a month, plus a reissue or two, even in the month of December, far more than any "major label" you can name.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Ken Dryden

[Christiern]

Thank you Dan. I knew Carl Jefferson and he was no racist--he loved the music and contributed mightily to it without regard to anyone's ancestry. To even imply that his label's artist roster indicated otherwise is unfair, absurd and ignorant.

But this thread is about Concord's loss: Terri Hinte.

[John Tapscott]

I can't believe that this thread has detoured from Terri Hinte to a discussion of whether or not there were sufficient African-American artists on the Concord Roster during its heyday. I never knew that there was supposed to be a quota system for jazz labels, let alone band personnel, composers of songs recorded or played on a set, etc.

Good heavens. I can't believe it, either. Haven't we long ago gotten beyond these ridiculous (and frankly baseless) charges? I enjoyed the Concord label in the Carl Jefferson years and for the first few years after his death. After that, it changed quite radically and I lost interest. Ken's mention of Jesse Davis reminded me that Robert Trowers, the African American bebop trombonist made 2 good Cd's for Jefferson's Concord. (Jefferson signed him on the spur of the moment after hearing him at one of Davis' sessions). As far as I know, no label since has given Trowers a chance to record. And how many CD's has Davis made since Concord?

Thanks Ken, for setting the record straight. I hope everyone takes the time to read and reread what you wrote.

Edited June 27, 2006 by John Tapscott