chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 why did grant to that His Magesty king funk album. did blue note let him? whats up w/ that. is there a story to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I don't think it was in the middle of a BN cotract, but rather between his first and second stint with the label. After the Verve album, recorded in 1965, it wasn't until 1969 ("Carryin' On") he released an album on Blue Note (or any label) again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertrand Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Iron City was also between the two contracts. We discussed a while back (probably on the legendary Patton vs. Young thread) that Iron City was probably recorded in 1965, not 1967. There were also those unissued Verve sessions, so in fact Grant kept busy between the two contracts. Bertrand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) There were also those unissued Verve sessions You are correct, Bertrand. Weren't those unissued Verve dates also from 1965, BTW? It would seem Green was not too active in the studios until the end of the 60s. Edited June 30, 2006 by Daniel A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Are these Verve sessions still unreleased? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster_Ties Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Does anyone know why Green was either dropped by BN circa 1965, or why Green choose not to renew said contract -- or whatever the reason was for the end of his first contract?? Green recorded a LOT on BN prior to '65 (and it must have sold pretty darn well -- or why would he have recorded so darn much). It would seem to me that BN would have kept him in their roster, if he was selling pretty well. What's the scoop?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mailman Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Does anyone know why Green was either dropped by BN circa 1965, or why Green choose not to renew said contract -- or whatever the reason was for the end of his first contract?? Green recorded a LOT on BN prior to '65 (and it must have sold pretty darn well -- or why would he have recorded so darn much). It would seem to me that BN would have kept him in their roster, if he was selling pretty well. What's the scoop?? I think he was having problems with certain substances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybleaden Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 yup and the inability of the dealers to accept tokens This is and was a common issue I guess These at the least were paying gigs and cash I suppose BUT what a gorgeous set it was!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWright Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Are these Verve sessions still unreleased? As far as I know, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkertown Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Thank you, Daniel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz Kat Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 why did grant to that His Magesty king funk album. did blue note let him? whats up w/ that. is there a story to that? He liked Blue Note, then liked Verve, but then liked Blue Note again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest akanalog Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 jazzkat, thanks for the analysis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 so will verve a) never release it b) remaster it and reissue it at some point c) none of the above please explain your choice i pick b) beacuse its a full session its most likely not a "train wreck". assuming its not, the material should be released. they should know the figures of what a cd release like this would pull in money wise, so they should do their little thing then remaster the tapes and issue it. has anyone heard it here- soul stream, i'm looking in your direction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I think part of the answer may have been money. Blue Note lost Jimmy Smith, Lou Donaldson and Donald Byrd, all of whom had had hit albums, because their contracts were for cash, according to Francis Wolff. Musicians who weren't having hits generally didn't bother with royalties, but those who did suddenly realised that they weren't getting paid. GG was a musician whose records were selling well, though they weren't hits. He was a good man to have on a session; recorded for Blue Note more often in the period 1961-65 than any other musician, and GG knew he was an attraction. He wanted, and thought he deserved, chart success. So I have a feeling he moved away from Blue Note to Verve because he got a better deal - assuming hit albums. But the hits didn't come - no doubt because of his problems. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez sez: Gimme a break mr. goldberg the reason grant didnt have a hit is not cause he was a junkie. lots of junkies have had hit records. grant did have 45rpm jukebox singles but they just never picked up it had nothing to do w/ his personal habits sincerely, Chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 Chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez sez: Gimme a break mr. goldberg the reason grant didnt have a hit is not cause he was a junkie. lots of junkies have had hit records. grant did have 45rpm jukebox singles but they just never picked up it had nothing to do w/ his personal habits sincerely, Chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez One thing about jazz musicians getting hits is, they have to be out there, pushing, ready and able to make the appearances that are required. If he wasn't able to do that, then the records would have bombed. I don't KNOW that's what happened. It may simply be that "Canteloupe woman"/"Daddy grapes" just wasn't a good enough try. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez Posted July 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 was grant on booze or H? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 was grant on booze or H? His daughter-in-law's bio says drugs, without specifying which. I just looked at my single of "Canteloupe woman" and it's a cut out. I don't think I've ever seen another jazz single that's a cut-out. I take that to imply that it didn't sell nearly as many as Verve expected it to. That leads to the conclusion that Verve had the willingness to try to push the single. So why didn't it make it? Can't tell, of course, but it could have been down to GG. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 was grant on booze or H? His daughter-in-law's bio says drugs, without specifying which. I just looked at my single of "Canteloupe woman" and it's a cut out. I don't think I've ever seen another jazz single that's a cut-out. I take that to imply that it didn't sell nearly as many as Verve expected it to. That leads to the conclusion that Verve had the willingness to try to push the single. So why didn't it make it? Can't tell, of course, but it could have been down to GG. MG From the Nov 63 recording of Idle Moments to the April 66 recording of Got a Good Thing Going a span of roughly two a bit years Grant Green left a legacy of sessions that could be considered unsurpassed in jazz guitar beauty, lyricism and intensity during such a short period of time. This includes the (at the time it was recorded) state of the art sessions with Tyner and Jones, all of the Green, Young and Jones recordings and the brilliant culmination of his recorded patnership with Big john Patton on Let Em Roll and GAGTG...this run of sessions pretty much ending with the recording we know as Iron City and the "two mysterious and apparently unheard sessions that may or may not still exist in the verve vaults". Is their the possibility someone can confirm whether anyone might be able to verify if these tapes still exist.??... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Magnificent Goldberg Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 was grant on booze or H? His daughter-in-law's bio says drugs, without specifying which. I just looked at my single of "Canteloupe woman" and it's a cut out. I don't think I've ever seen another jazz single that's a cut-out. I take that to imply that it didn't sell nearly as many as Verve expected it to. That leads to the conclusion that Verve had the willingness to try to push the single. So why didn't it make it? Can't tell, of course, but it could have been down to GG. MG From the Nov 63 recording of Idle Moments to the April 66 recording of Got a Good Thing Going a span of roughly two a bit years Grant Green left a legacy of sessions that could be considered unsurpassed in jazz guitar beauty, lyricism and intensity during such a short period of time. This includes the (at the time it was recorded) state of the art sessions with Tyner and Jones, all of the Green, Young and Jones recordings and the brilliant culmination of his recorded patnership with Big john Patton on Let Em Roll and GAGTG...this run of sessions pretty much ending with the recording we know as Iron City and the "two mysterious and apparently unheard sessions that may or may not still exist in the verve vaults". Is their the possibility someone can confirm whether anyone might be able to verify if these tapes still exist.??... Not me Guv; I only know what's in the discographies. BTW, surely you should go back at least to the sessions with Sonny Clark in talking about that legacy. Oh, and the period you're interested in also included Art Blakey's "Hold on, I'm comin'", and George Braith's very friendly "Laughing soul". MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost of miles Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Green is one of the better reissue sellers for modern-day Blue Note, correct? Mention of George Braith brought back memories of the famous BNBB thread, "We demand the release of the Braith and Wilkerson Doubletimes!" Anybody else remember that old chestnut? I also remember the suggestion being made to Michael Cuscuna to release them as "The Complete Recordings of Grant Green With Don Wilkerson/George Braith." I think MC thought that was stretching it a bit too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertoart Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 was grant on booze or H? His daughter-in-law's bio says drugs, without specifying which. I just looked at my single of "Canteloupe woman" and it's a cut out. I don't think I've ever seen another jazz single that's a cut-out. I take that to imply that it didn't sell nearly as many as Verve expected it to. That leads to the conclusion that Verve had the willingness to try to push the single. So why didn't it make it? Can't tell, of course, but it could have been down to GG. MG From the Nov 63 recording of Idle Moments to the April 66 recording of Got a Good Thing Going a span of roughly two a bit years Grant Green left a legacy of sessions that could be considered unsurpassed in jazz guitar beauty, lyricism and intensity during such a short period of time. This includes the (at the time it was recorded) state of the art sessions with Tyner and Jones, all of the Green, Young and Jones recordings and the brilliant culmination of his recorded patnership with Big john Patton on Let Em Roll and GAGTG...this run of sessions pretty much ending with the recording we know as Iron City and the "two mysterious and apparently unheard sessions that may or may not still exist in the verve vaults". Is their the possibility someone can confirm whether anyone might be able to verify if these tapes still exist.??... Not me Guv; I only know what's in the discographies. BTW, surely you should go back at least to the sessions with Sonny Clark in talking about that legacy. Oh, and the period you're interested in also included Art Blakey's "Hold on, I'm comin'", and George Braith's very friendly "Laughing soul". MG Oh yeh everything from before Idle moments is equally as brilliant...Greenstreet,Granstand all the Sonny Clarke stuff,Sunday Morning, Feeling the Spirit etc al, I was just trying to make a context for the those unheard Verve's as being perhaps the culmination of a certain period of development for Grant, that's all....maybe these sessions weren't so great when compared to maybe Iron City or Talking About but we'll never know if no informed ears have heard them. I tend to agree with you that it may not have been the quality of the music that left them unissued at the time but rather just the circumstances of grant's ability or willingness to actively promote them within the conventions or expectations of the time. remember that Wes was also beginning his big crossover appeal on Verve at this time, and maybe the label thought it more practical to focus on one, more reliable artist, rather than both of them. I remember seeing on ebay a promotional document from this time announcing the release of HMKF and a new Wes recording...something along the lines of 'listen to the two masters of modern jazz guitar' or something like that....so maybe after these releases they just went more exclusively with Wes...and this would back up your thoughts I guess. So who knows what was captured during those sessions...more masterpeices or just some nice and greasy goodies in keeping with that time. Interestingly in the SAG book Elvin Jones talks about the 1965ish era as being Grant's most sublime moment. BTW I dig Laughing Soul lots, love the twin guitar comps and cool fairground like themes. Haven't been able to find the Blakey yet...so haven't heard it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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