*** Frank Zappa ***

[Quincy]

Will these be the original recordings, or the '80's remixes?

There's this from Gail. I'll leave it up to you to figure it out.

"Q: Should I sell or junk my `95 Ryko CDs, or keep `em as collector’s items?

A: I would keep them for the moment – but you decide. None of the new releases are “sourced” from the Ryko releases and although many represent the digital masters mostly as you have come to understand them, many do not! Each package will identify the actual source so you will be able to plan your collection accordingly. We think everything sounds better but I am sure you will let us know."

Regarding Hot Rats:

"Q: The Hot Rats CD has always been a 1987 re-mix, not the original 1969 mix. Is this new CD the `69 mix, or the `87 re-mix? I prefer either.

A: Technically none of the above – this is the 2008 Bernie Grundman re-master – which mostly resembles the original 1969 mix. You will love it."

Edited June 25, 2012 by Quincy

[mjzee]

Lucille has already messed my mind up...I don't need Gail to complete the process.

[Д.Д.]

Lucille has already messed my mind up...I don't need Gail to complete the process.

Uncharacteristically, in the Hot Rats case this is more or less clear - the master to be used for the new CD reissue is the one that was prepared for the Classic Records Vynil reissue from 2009: http://classicrecords.com/item.cfm?item=RS%206356-150G . I have not heard it, but the reviews are very positive, and it is apparently indeed very close to the original 1969 LP mix and sound.

[Afric Pepperbird]

Does he really "ram it, ram it, ram it up" her poop chute??

[mikeweil]

Uncharacteristically, in the Hot Rats case this is more or less clear - the master to be used for the new CD reissue is the one that was prepared for the Classic Records Vynil reissue from 2009: http://classicrecord...=RS%206356-150G . I have not heard it, but the reviews are very positive, and it is apparently indeed very close to the original 1969 LP mix and sound.

That would be a reason to buy this - I sold my LP before getting the CD and was disappointed by the remix.

[7/4]

Art Jarvinen aka While You Were Art.

[JETman]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

[mjzee]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

For me, Hot Rats, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels, Absolutely Free (for nostalgia's sake; I was 12 when I first bought it), and Fillmore East (absolutely brilliant satire). If you want to narrow it down to one or two, Hot Rats and Uncle Meat.

[JETman]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

For me, Hot Rats, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels, Absolutely Free (for nostalgia's sake; I was 12 when I first bought it), and Fillmore East (absolutely brilliant satire). If you want to narrow it down to one or two, Hot Rats and Uncle Meat.

Thanks. What about the other live one -- band from LA or somesuch?

[JSngry]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

For me, Hot Rats, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels, Absolutely Free (for nostalgia's sake; I was 12 when I first bought it), and Fillmore East (absolutely brilliant satire). If you want to narrow it down to one or two, Hot Rats and Uncle Meat.

Thanks. What about the other live one -- band from LA or somesuch?

Just Another Band From L.A....Billy The Mountain (Side One) is EPIC. I'm sure Side Two was good, but frankly, I can no longer remember it.

[mjzee]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

For me, Hot Rats, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels, Absolutely Free (for nostalgia's sake; I was 12 when I first bought it), and Fillmore East (absolutely brilliant satire). If you want to narrow it down to one or two, Hot Rats and Uncle Meat.

Thanks. What about the other live one -- band from LA or somesuch?

Just Another Band From L.A....Billy The Mountain (Side One) is EPIC. I'm sure Side Two was good, but frankly, I can no longer remember it.

My reaction's the opposite: BTM tries to make some sort of point, but comes off as scattershot satire. But side 2 has a lot of energy and plays really well...a killer Call Any Vegetable into Eddie Are You Kidding (wonderful Flo & Eddie on this one) into Magdalena (lyrics not for the squeamish, however) ending with some powerful Dog Breath.

I didn't recommend JABFLA because many people consider the Flo & Eddie band to be low-level satire and sex jokes. Of the two albums in this batch (3 if you include Chunga's Revenge), I think Fillmore's the strongest and most consistent. My guess is that JABFLA might not have been released if it wasn't that Zappa needed money to pay medical bills following his fall.

I'll be curious about Chunga, because the original LP sounded very muffled; I wonder if they'll be able to improve it.

[JSngry]

"Billy The Mountain", to me, IS L.A. in all it's glory, perverse and otherwise. Or so I've been convinced by those who are from there.

By the same token, the Flo & Eddie band IS low-level satire and sex jokes in all it's glory, perverse and otherwise. It's the last Zappa band I could enjoy w/o any reservations at any level. Perhaps not coincidentally, it's also the last Zappa band, chronologically, before I began to transition out of adolescence.

I forgot about "Magdalena", though, yet, that one was hot! And "Eddie Are You Kidding" (another "pure L.A. thing. or so I've been convinced by those who are from there), that was another good one. "Call Any Vegetable", though, didn't really care for that one, sounded like a "rock parody" of the orginal (my first Mothers album was We're Only In It... then went back and bought the catalog in release order...in 1969-70, that was pretty easy!)

[7/4]

I'll be curious about Chunga, because the original LP sounded very muffled; I wonder if they'll be able to improve it.

I guess I'm curious about that as well, but I'm in no hurry to check it out.

[Chuck Nessa]

Hmmm....

In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Chuck Nessa

[mjzee]

It's the last Zappa band I could enjoy w/o any reservations at any level. Perhaps not coincidentally, it's also the last Zappa band, chronologically, before I began to transition out of adolescence.

Yah, once the hero worship wore off, I saw more of the man behind the curtain... On the other hand, if the material remained strong in the late '70's & '80's, the hero worship may have continued.

[romualdo]

been a fan of his since the early 70's but the one thing that bugged me about him was his homophobia (went beyond satire)

Chuck's experience with him is a shocker!!

[7/4]

Hmmm....

In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order.

No shit. That's fucked up.

[AfricaBrass]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

For me, Hot Rats, Uncle Meat, Burnt Weeny Sandwich, Weasels, Absolutely Free (for nostalgia's sake; I was 12 when I first bought it), and Fillmore East (absolutely brilliant satire). If you want to narrow it down to one or two, Hot Rats and Uncle Meat.

Thanks. What about the other live one -- band from LA or somesuch?

Just Another Band From L.A....Billy The Mountain (Side One) is EPIC. I'm sure Side Two was good, but frankly, I can no longer remember it.

I LOVE Billy the Mountain!! Side two is good too.

Other than Just Another Band From L.A., my favorites are Absolutely Free, Freak Out and Hot Rats.

Hmmm....

In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order.

No shit. That's fucked up.

Wow! That's awful. Seriously awful.

Actually, my parents went to high school in the same town as Zappa. Even though it was in California, there's was some serious racism. It wasn't overt, but it was in the attitudes. I have been sickened by some of the things my aunt has said about Obama, and this was before he was even president. I don't even think that she knows she is a racist.

I'm not making any excuses for them, but only illustrating how it really is out there. It's one of the reasons I keep to myself...

Edited June 27, 2012 by AfricaBrass

[mjzee]

Zappa wasn't a racist - just look at his bands (and that was long before it was hip to have integrated rock bands). That doesn't mean he wasn't a major asshole.

[robertoart]

Zappa wasn't a racist - just look at his bands (and that was long before it was hip to have integrated rock bands). That doesn't mean he wasn't a major asshole.

No. He may not have been a racist, I don't know. But the story Chuck Nessa relates jibes to the sanctimonious and mean spirited vibe I have always got a whiff of from his 'lyrical satire'.

I appreciate in many ways, musically and as a social observer/critic, he was an intelligent thinker, but it always came across to me as a belligerent intelligence.

If he never challenged himself about his homophobia, he probably wasn't that smart anyway. And there are also disturbing allegations relating to ongoing employment of molesters in his band, despite some awareness of their behaviour. Shades of the other thread perhaps.

Sorry Zappa fans. I still love his balls out Rock guitar playing though.

[Д.Д.]

The first batch of reissues is available for preorder on amazon. I will order Hot Rats and Uncle Meat - probably two albums most butchered by the old remastering.

Where???.....I don't see any Uncle Meat or any of the titles available for pre order on Amazon.

Uncle Meat: http://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Meat-Frank-Zappa/dp/B008BDZP08/

Hot Rats: http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Rats-Frank-Zappa/dp/B008BDZP3K/

Hmmm....

In late 1967 or early 1968 when the Mothers were first breaking on the scene, someone in the Zappa management team, working for Tom Wilson suggested I take Lester Bowie and Roscoe Mitchell to meet Frank when they came to town for a gig. It took a bit of convincing to get them to drive to the North side for this meeting. Frank came out from the dressing room and dismissed me as a white guy exploiting black artists and dismissed Lester and Roscoe because they were my n...ers. I have never been able to take him seriously or listen to his music. He was an ASSHOLE of the first order.

Chuck, could you please elaborate a bit on the intended purpose of the meeting? Was there any particular agenda?

[Quincy]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

My favorite is Burnt Weeny Sandwich which for some reason isn't listed in the first dozen. So for the new reissues I agree that Hot Rats is your best bet, and The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka would be other good bets in terms of music without much in the way satire which may or may not be your thing. (I'm also basing this on knowing that like me you're a fan of The Great Deceiver. It's different music of course but these albums tend to match up well with the certain somethings that cause ardent fanship.) I read a blurb on one of the other forums from a former Zappa insider (forgot the specifics) where supposedly Waka/Jawaka now sounds better than any other CD version. Uncle Meat rates highly too but I'm waiting to see if the movie soundtrack dialogue "penalty tracks" have been removed.

Albums with a more lyrical emphasis provide enjoyment too (both early, later and even much later), but it becomes very hard to recommend them as they're dependent upon one's sense of humor and whether the targets of the time translate well today. Even the ones I like I tend to only like for about a dozen nonconsecutive days a year.

[JETman]

For someone new to Zappa, which of the first 12 being released are "must haves"?

My favorite is Burnt Weeny Sandwich which for some reason isn't listed in the first dozen. So for the new reissues I agree that Hot Rats is your best bet, and The Grand Wazoo and Waka/Jawaka would be other good bets in terms of music without much in the way satire which may or may not be your thing. (I'm also basing this on knowing that like me you're a fan of The Great Deceiver. It's different music of course but these albums tend to match up well with the certain somethings that cause ardent fanship.) I read a blurb on one of the other forums from a former Zappa insider (forgot the specifics) where supposedly Waka/Jawaka now sounds better than any other CD version. Uncle Meat rates highly too but I'm waiting to see if the movie soundtrack dialogue "penalty tracks" have been removed.

Albums with a more lyrical emphasis provide enjoyment too (both early, later and even much later), but it becomes very hard to recommend them as they're dependent upon one's sense of humor and whether the targets of the time translate well today. Even the ones I like I tend to only like for about a dozen nonconsecutive days a year.

Thanks for this. To put it simply, I am a fan of music played "skillfully".

[AllenLowe]

that's a bad story, Chuck. I still think Zappa was a great composer.

and actually, California was always extremely racist; read about Howard McGhee's experiences with his white wife. Also, don't forget what they did to the Japanese.

Edited June 27, 2012 by AllenLowe

[Chuck Nessa]

Chuck, could you please elaborate a bit on the intended purpose of the meeting? Was there any particular agenda?

I had been contacted by Elizabeth van der Mei. Elizabeth was an early person promoting the "new thing" in NY. She wrote reports for some magazines and worked at ESP for a while. At some point she moved to California to work with Tom Wilson (Transition Records, electric Dylan, etc) who was now producing/managing Zappa and the Mothers. She thought the meeting of the AACM and Zappa might produce some positive results. I wasn't sure but she pushed me forward.