Musicians writing on Jazz

[Lazaro Vega]

The musicians as writers issue went a little too quickly under the rug in the Scott Yanow thread, a thread I guess is going away. At the end of the day "we" go to musicians for insight about jazz. Writers transmit that information, but straight from the source is often profound.

Rex Stewart, Art Hodes, Bud Freeman, Kenny Dorham and, as Nate said, Chadbourne, gave timeless insights.

Regarding the Jazz Corner debate that all posts are invalid is one of the biggest reasons jazz is in the toilet with a general audience -- there's this idea that the music is no longer a gift. Today, many people contend that the once it's born the only people it is intended for are advanced music scholars, or, at least, they're the only people with the resources to comment on it intelligently. That is a pin in the balloon of fandom.

In a recent article for Signal to Noise by Howard Mandal, Muhal Richard Abrams holds there’s no privilege in his intentions as a creator. Muhal is inconclusive about whether sounds contain irreducible meanings, or whether meaning comes from context. But he agrees, surprisingly, to accept and welcome the responses and interpretations of any and all listeners. How fucking refreshing is that?

He says free improvisation is a practice applicable to given situations, not a style in itself.

“Most of the musicians I’ve known…don’t speak in terms of titles or headings. If they’re improvising, they’re improvising. If they’re writing it down, they’re writing it down. I put the pencil down and I just keep going – I improvise some. Then I pick the pencil up again and write some. It’s the same process, and the same flow….I think…a lot of people are seeking to address their individualism, and improvisation is on the continuum of our impressions of how we should proceed with our individualism, each in his own manner.”

Muhal will finally have a new recording issued soon on PI records, with George Lewis and Roscoe Mitchell.

“It’s been my impression for many years that music itself transcends styles. Styles are created within music, but music itself is too vast to take in in one sip, or one drink of the information. And I think that when one realizes that, and realizes that there’s a duty to respect music itself, smashing these genres and putting different things together becomes a thing you do. Your respect is for music – there’s still a place for “Body and Soul,” a serious composition in the area that it’s in. But a single piece, or genre, may not be in terms of style what you want to pursue singularly. So out of it all, you extract what you personally feel fits your particular point of view.”

Elsewhere in the interview he says it again: “Sound itself precedes what we think of as music. Music is a more or less formal organization of sound, organized by point of view or some individual rhythmic desire, however original the idea may be. Sound itself is the raw material. The sound of everything, the sound of the universe, even the sound of things vibrating that we can’t hear, but a dog or a cat might.

“Well, when we come to making music we organize ourselves in order to produce a certain sound idea. And after many years of approaching sound through music, one gets to the point where one approaches sound itself. To listen to what is over there, that is not over here. Then you decide to use something that impresses you in the raw world of sound – and it becomes, again, what we might call music. Some people might call it noise,” and he laughed at that, “but it’s organized sound, coming from a particular point of view that we want to express.”

Later still, “And when one assesses another’s act, or music, what a sincere and honest observer sees, and the conclusions they come to, are just as accurate as those of a person who sees it the exact opposite way. I’ll tell you why: Music, visual art and related phenomena that speak to many people is open to many interpretations. It’s educational. What you might say as a critic and observer, what the person in the audience might say, are things that might prove enlightening. Each person may have their own take on it, but never the final call. For me, that’s the beauty of it.

“For me, it’s always been important that individuals do what they do. Because I think we are all educated by our differences, in the sense that what may occur to you may not occur to me. But it might enlighten me when you do it. And possibly your idea could be something that I can use, in the way that I could use it. It has always been and will always be important to me to observe individuals expressing their individualism, and it has been a great inspiration to be among people who each and every one of them express their individualism.”

Edited October 2, 2006 by Lazaro Vega

[Lazaro Vega]

Turning to musicians for their insight about the music, whether in interview or reading what they've written, is often illuminating, often cliche busting, even when the writing is as turgid, muddy and loopy as Anthony Braxton's.

Jazz criticism helps me with musical specifics. An author will often have access to a musician who will talk about a project in more musical detail than a press release, and those insights are often the keys one needs to unlock the mysteries in post-modern music.

[JSngry]

Them's wise words from Mr. Abrams.

[Lazaro Vega]

Jim, Roscoe and George Lewis are also well represented in the article. Yes, it's too bad we live in an era when two giants of jazz tradition -- Ornette Coleman and Muhal Richard Abrams -- are nine years between recording projects. It may be true that is the way they wanted it, but then again....

There is no great body of work from he who weilds an electric rake, Clemocracy...I've just read a few things here and there which were insightful and helpful.

[Scott Yanow]

The more that musicians write about music, the better. The most articulate ones give the rest of us a great deal of knowledge when they write and talk about it.

[Nate Dorward]

Uh, where did I say that Eugene Chadbourne gives timeless insights? I like his writing a lot, mostly for the Hunter S Thompsonesque quality -- the piece in the new issue is a great saga of the miseries of dealing with insurance companies. Anyway, "timeless insight" isn't exactly how you'd describe the virtues of Eugene's writing....

There are a lot of musicians out there with a lot of good stuff to say, & I wish they had more time/inclination to write. But there are a lot of b.s.ers out there too, or those who seem to be more worried about music-politics than music.

[ghost of miles]

I'll heartily second Clem's rec for NOTES & TONES. Also much value to be found in oral histories such as CENTRAL AVENUE SOUNDS, where the musicians are speaking directly much of the time, or even in a book like Ben Sidran's TALKING JAZZ.

Looking forward to reading George Lewis' work in toto when it comes out.

[ghost of miles]

Realize this is broadening the scope of Lazaro's topic somewhat, but in terms of musicians writing about their lives as musicians, Art Pepper's STRAIGHT LIFE & Horace Tapscott's SONGS OF THE UNSUNG (realizing, too, that there was some assistance in each case, but the voices that come out of those books seem indisputably those of AP & HT).

[Lazaro Vega]

Sorry to say I've only read about Nas and not heard his music. Played Olu Dara the other night, though, as part of The David Murray Octet while presenting a radio feature on drummer Steve McCall. And saw Olu leading his own band back in the 1980's at the Michigan Union in Ann Arbor (he "warmed up" for Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society). Olu Dara sang about okra and had a giant plastic mixing bowl he used as a clownish mute as he sang/played, "Put the horn in the bucket."

From the sounds of it Nas is an honest musician. Someday...

Nate, sorry to mis-represent -- there was a link the Clemshell posted in the Scoop Yanow thread where you mentioned E.C. as a contributer to AMG, and it was I and I alone who wrote his insight was helpful, while Hodes, Stewart and Freeman strike me as timeless.

Yes, there is much political posturing in music writing today. Musicians say such things as, "I like football, but a football player knows and understands the game better than I ever will." Yes, musicians do know music on an entirely heavier level, yet what Muhal has to say is an important way of understanding how fundementally different artistic human expression is from sports. It's a gift to humanity. The "only musicians know" faction seeks to limit artistic understanding, while many of the musician/writers listed here so far seem to me to treat writing as an extension of their music, i.e. another means of communication. Sure, Eddie Condon had his own agenda, clearly, yet he was entertaining as hell about it.

And Ghost, yes, musician's autobiographies can be helpful, or absolutely confusing...Beneath the Underdog, Music is My Mistress, and Miles Davis's "auto-bio" (Art Blakey played on "Walkin'" according to that book)...the Pepper book is one of the great ones, though.....

[Chuck Nessa]

Reading Brendel is about as dreary as the listening

More "fine" arguements wit other statements in the post, BUT I love reading Brendel. It gives much more pleasure than later "mannered" recordings but I do have a soft spot for the Vox stuff. Not all of it is interesting but much of it is.

[AllenLowe]

Dick Katz is one of the most insightful music writers I have ever read - though it's hard to find his stuff; some is collected in Jazz Panorama; great notes for the Smithsonian Teddy Wilson. He was also the source for a good deal of Gitlers' Jazz Masters of the 1940s -

Also Dick Wellstood - his notes for the album by a great stride pianist whose damn name I cannot remember right now (Pumpkin Records, somebody'll know it) are brilliant -

[ghost of miles]

Dick Katz is one of the most insightful music writers I have ever read - though it's hard to find his stuff; some is collected in Jazz Panorama; great notes for the Smithsonian Teddy Wilson. He was also the source for a good deal of Gitlers' Jazz Masters of the 1940s -

Katz did the liners for Mosaic's COLUMBIA PIANO JAZZ SESSIONS and also contributed an essay on 1940s/50s jazz piano to Kirchner's OXFORD COMPANION TO JAZZ.

LV, I hear ya on UNDERDOG & Miles--I read both of those as "novelizations" of a sort. But even if the "facts" within are sometimes askew, I still felt as if I'd been offered some insight into what made each man tick. Poetic autobiography, as it were, or some such.

Clem, you should write a book--you and Sangrey both. Ever check out the 33 1/3 series? Either you or he could do a damned sight better than most of what I've read in that line so far (and are of course capable of much loftier heights & highs on the literary slopes). And if Larry or John Litweiler don't write the ultimate Chicago jazz book, then I nominate Messrs. Vega and/or Nessa.

OK, off myself--heavy prep to do on a program. Coffee only (black, of course).

[JSngry]

Nas is somebody I've heard through my son. Unlike a lot of what I hear that way, I listen to it. Yeah, Nas is worthy, at least for now. Probably moreso than his old man's become, although I'm not putting money on that just yet.

No book for/from/out of me, at least not now, Ghost. That's a totally different craft/skill/art/whatever than just sitting down at the computer to a jazz board and conversing, which is something at which I sometimes get lucky and find a zone. Whatever I have to say gets said here, in the spurry heat of the moment, just like it would if we were all hanging out. It's a "between friends" type thing here, and that works for me, all things considered.

I would, however, be glad to take liner note assignments, as well as customized birthday/anniversary/sympathy card gigs. That type of love is universal, doncha know, and there's money to be made. Why not?

And I'll do anything to get Monday Michiru over in this country. Anything. No reasonable offer refused, unreasonable offers pre-approved if success is guaranteed in advance.

[marcello]

Some others that I've enjoyed are:

Hampton Hawes - Raise Up Off Of Me

Dizzy Gillespie - To Be or not To Bop

Mingus - Beneath the Underdog

Chet Baker - As Though I Had Wings

Bechet - Treat it Gentle

Yusef Lateef - Something Else ( The whole quartet contributes writings )

Dicky Wells - Night People

There's a bunch more that I could mention also by:

Earl Palmer

George Shearing

Buck Clayton

Red Callender

All of these have their moments.

What makes these most interesting to me is the process to create this music, and the brotherhood that is nessesary.

[JSngry]

Johnny Otis.

[marcello]

Yes, "Upside Your Head!".... a good one.

[Larry Kart]

Allen -- The pianist whose album Wellstood wrote those fine notes on stride for was Donald Lambert.

[Larry Kart]

A lovely autobiography by a musician who was not that notable himself in the history of things but saw things acutely is "Thirty Years With the Big Bands" by Arthur Rollini (tenor saxophonist with Benny Goodman when that band broke through and younger brother of the great Adrian Rollini).

[AllenLowe]

thanks for the Lambert - I also like Bud Freeman's two autobiographies - and I've read a few of Dave Tough's old columns that I liked - Katz also did the notes, I think, for the solo Monk Sony/Columbia reissue -

Edited October 3, 2006 by AllenLowe

[JSngry]

Olu-- interesting cat...Did the records hit you as jive?

Somewhat...

[JSngry]

Yeah, I hear ya'. The records just reek of "presentation", if you know what I mean. Kinda like Taj Mahal 2 or 3 times removed, which is, at best, 1 or 2 times too many for me.

But them records can be funny sometimes...

[marcello]

i only heard the first one but wasn't thrilled either, except as weirdness move, not then knowing his deeper background... live tho' was better than most straight blues bands. if they ever play Denton Pioneer Days & yr around, could be aiiiiight. the specific timbres & hot/looseness of that sorta thing can get killed easily die in the studio, not to mention some musics simply don't translate all that well at this point in history.

tsg

The above is the most straight forward post you have ever made Clem!

Not that I don't enjoy what you have to say otherewise, but my little ole, seriously under - educated brain, can decipher just so much at one time.

I thought that Ola Dara was a jive avant player also and you may be right that his blues is closer to his real self, but it's still a pose with not much to say after all.

Not that not saying much is wrong, but the attitude that you're doing something important or original is lame.

[JSngry]

I heard Dara live w/Threadgill's sextet back in 1981, and it was great. The guy was working a plunger like I'd never heard it worked before, making all kinds of micro-timbral shadings that were as obviously intentional as they were obviously effective.

But this is also the guy who said that his stint with Blakey was too simple (or something like that) because you didn't really need to know all the changes to all those tunes (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it). Well, yes and no... You don't necessarily need to know all that to play those tunes, but you do need to know all that to play that gig. Which is why whenever Blakey talked about having an "avant-garde" trumpeter in his band for a few gigs who "couldn't even play the blues", I think that it was Dara that he was talking about, even if the blues was one thing that was probably no problem for Dara. It just wasn't Blakey's type blues.

So, when I heard that he ws "re-emerging" as a "blues/folk" type guy, I was excited at the potential because what I heard him play with Threadgill (and on some records from that time, admittedly none of which hit with the power of that live gig), reeked of that type of flavor. This, I thoought, was going to be something to hear, a man who had shed the need to play "jazz" and was ready to just settle into some raw rootsy selfness. But the records...didn't get there for me. Not even close.

Then again, those are records (on latter-day Atlantic, no less), so I don't know but that what's on them isn't the total opposite of what goes down live.

If I ever get the chance to contrast and compare, I sure will!

[Hot Ptah]

I like Ben Sidran's writing about jazz, especially in his recent autobiography.

[Lazaro Vega]

Sidran's radio series was cool. I actually enjoy him more as a journalist than a singer.

That's pretty funny in this day and age to say a musician went on an avant band to make bread.

That Threadgill Sextet record on About Time with Olu does well by him, "When Was That?" once known as "Fanfare and Celebration,"is a desert island "cut" for me. And Olu had much to add to the David Murray Octet's recording "Ming," which is otherwise dominated by the Chicagoans. Live he was wonderful, especially because he could put "the horn in the bucket," i.e. play with plunger mute, bucket mute, straight mute, pixie mute ("shrimp shandwich, shrimp bar-b-que, creole shrimp....") and open horn with a cornet warmth. His solo records from Atlantic were a huge disappointment after that.

Thanks for the recommendations, especailly the Rollini. Need to find it. Noticed Bill Dobbins also has his act together as contributing writer to the Grove Dictionary of Jazz, which is a problematic work, but not for what he puts in it.