jazz standards we dont like

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I guess one reason that it bothers me when people say "I don't like that tune regardless of who performs it"

is that people also will say "I don't like trombone (or whatever instrument), I don't care who's playing it", and that kind of close-minded attitude is a real drag.

I guess the premise of threads like this bothers me more than what specific tunes people do or don't like. I also dislike those "who's overrated" threads. Thankfully they don't appear here too often.

I'm with FFA...in the sense that it's not the tune...it's who's playing it. Sure we all have our favorites,ect. Mine seem to change over time. That's the great thing about music. One thing I know for sure is, that my favorite players...I like every tune they play on.

I stayed away from this thread because I didn't like the concept. I just checked it out for the hell of it and Soul Stream and FFA have it exactly right.

i hoped that more jazz standards would be noted, and not just pop standards

One thing that's notable in the thread is that, not only are people not mentioning too many jazz standards, but zero Soul Jazz standards have been mentioned. I am really surprised people haven't been down on "Way back home", "Freedom jazz dance", "Cold duck time", "Sister Sadie", "Chitlins con carne", "Dat dere", "Mercy, mercy, mercy", "Comin' home baby" etc etc. I wonder if that's because people really like them or if they just don't care.

MG

[Free For All]

i hoped that more jazz standards would be noted, and not just pop standards

I just skimmed through the thread again and it seems to me that the vast majority of tunes mentioned can indeed be considered jazz standards, at least by my experience.

Not sure what the criteria is to separate "jazz" from "pop". So many of the tunes we consider standards started out in movies and shows (but now exist primarily in the jazz repertoire), does that make them pop tunes? Is a "jazz" standard something that has been composed specifically for jazz musicians, like Monk's tunes?

[7/4]

Is a "jazz" standard something that has been composed specifically for jazz musicians, like Monk's tunes?

Yep.

[Hot Ptah]

I guess one reason that it bothers me when people say "I don't like that tune regardless of who performs it"

is that people also will say "I don't like trombone (or whatever instrument), I don't care who's playing it", and that kind of close-minded attitude is a real drag.

I guess the premise of threads like this bothers me more than what specific tunes people do or don't like. I also dislike those "who's overrated" threads. Thankfully they don't appear here too often.

I'm with FFA...in the sense that it's not the tune...it's who's playing it. Sure we all have our favorites,ect. Mine seem to change over time. That's the great thing about music. One thing I know for sure is, that my favorite players...I like every tune they play on.

I stayed away from this thread because I didn't like the concept. I just checked it out for the hell of it and Soul Stream and FFA have it exactly right.

i hoped that more jazz standards would be noted, and not just pop standards

One thing that's notable in the thread is that, not only are people not mentioning too many jazz standards, but zero Soul Jazz standards have been mentioned. I am really surprised people haven't been down on "Way back home", "Freedom jazz dance", "Cold duck time", "Sister Sadie", "Chitlins con carne", "Dat dere", "Mercy, mercy, mercy", "Comin' home baby" etc etc. I wonder if that's because people really like them or if they just don't care.

MG

I, for one, like them, and don't think that they have been overplayed.

[Free For All]

Is a "jazz" standard something that has been composed specifically for jazz musicians, like Monk's tunes?

Yep.

So "Invitation" or "Stella" or "Green Dolphin Street" or "All The Things You Are" aren't considered jazz standards?

[king ubu]

There are plenty of mediocre standards on the Billie Holiday Columbia box... but of course she succeeds in turning most of them into jewels...

I can relate to disliking the Casablanca tune... rhytmically very awkward, melodically utterly stoopid and simple... but of course there are musicians who could do good with this one, too!

As for the "soul jazz [what is "soul jazz"? where and how does it separate from "hard bop"? is Timmons or Cannonball one or the other?] standards", these are all what one calls "originals" (tunes composed by jazz musicians, as opposed to songwriters such as Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Rodgers-Hart, Burke-Van Heusen, etc. etc.), thus they're not falling under this thread's initial question, it would seem to me.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

There are plenty of mediocre standards on the Billie Holiday Columbia box... but of course she succeeds in turning most of them into jewels...

I can relate to disliking the Casablanca tune... rhytmically very awkward, melodically utterly stoopid and simple... but of course there are musicians who could do good with this one, too!

As for the "soul jazz [what is "soul jazz"? where and how does it separate from "hard bop"? is Timmons or Cannonball one or the other?] standards", these are all what one calls "originals" (tunes composed by jazz musicians, as opposed to songwriters such as Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Rodgers-Hart, Burke-Van Heusen, etc. etc.), thus they're not falling under this thread's initial question, it would seem to me.

I think a jazz standard is a tune that lots of jazz musicians perform. Some were written by jazz musicians, some weren't. Most of the ones I listed were written by jazzmen, but some weren't. I never detected a bias towards songs not written by jazzmen in the original post - in fact, I recall RegularPepsicola saying he was surprised that so few written by jazz musicians had been mentioned.

MG

[7/4]

Is a "jazz" standard something that has been composed specifically for jazz musicians, like Monk's tunes?

Yep.

So "Invitation" or "Stella" or "Green Dolphin Street" or "All The Things You Are" aren't considered jazz standards?

That's right. They're just standards.

[AllenLowe]

"Now that Your Gone" -

if I hear one more jam session version of this I'll go beserk -

[AllenLowe]

also, "I Feel Pretty." I wish Trane had never done it -

[Hot Ptah]

I love Duke's "In a Mellow Tone", but it seems to attract mediocre performances like moths to a street light. When the members of a lackluster group, which has exhibited its ability to play mainstream stuff in a very ordinary way, suddenly start beaming with delight as the leader announces, "now we will play 'In a Mellow Tone' by the immortal Duke Ellington!", I want to head for the exits.

[Free For All]

What is the general criteria for a tune to become a standard?

Must it survive the passage of time, or be frequently played/recorded?

Is "Happy Birthday" a standard?

[7/4]

What is the general criteria for a tune to become a standard?

Everyone plays the crap out of it.

[Rooster_Ties]

What is the general criteria for a tune to become a standard?

Everyone plays the crap out of it.

Agreed.

[king ubu]

well, ok, but if a jazz standard is what's been composed for jazz use, all what we've been discussing is off topic... I sort of made "standard" a "great american songbook" synonym... but then, the greatness would be the point to discuss...

is "The Christmas Song" a standard?

and I don't think just "anything that gets played the shit out of" is a standard... there are loads of good tunes that could/should be "standards" but are all too rarely played... unless you are of the opinion that standard = overplayed = bad, of course.

[couw]

And then there is Stella By Barlite on that one.

that's Bella, not Stella

of course!

[flat5]

I really like Stan Getz - Gary Burton - Steve Swallow - Pete Laroca (?) version of Summertime on the Getz Au Go Go album. Getz's solo is so great. Now, almost every time I solo on it I use a lot of polytonality. I mean playing a whole step up or a forth up or a fifth up, etc. It works so good on that tune. Working with a motif, like the first phrase.

What I don't care to play is:

Girl From Ipanna, or where ever.

In The Mood

Tuxedo Junction

All Blues

You Don't Know What Love Is (because of the bands I had to play it with)