Aging Avant-Garde

[jon abbey]

it's spelled Lilburn, not Lillburn.

yr boy Rowe (who in his Stanley Turrentine on CTI phase, let's say)

ok, silly rabbit, you win, not sure how I can argue with such a skewed perspective as that one. it did make me laugh, though...

[jon abbey]

Matmos blow you way away, ersatz Abbey... waaaaaaaaay... "oh but they're composers, we improvise, improvisiation is holy... uh-huh.)

oh, man, now I know you're either just busting my chops or deaf. or both? Matmos? really? I don't even think Drew Daniel would agree with you there.

[clifford_thornton]

Other than the typo, I agree with you (Rod).

I try to refer to avant-garde jazz within a specific time frame, though admittedly did reference some young players whom I feel are doing some interesting and (maybe-nearly- ) vanguard things, earlier in this thread.

I can't speak for through-composed music or aleatory music as I know very little about the fields; ditto AMM/MEV/Gruppo/etc. (some of whose work I really, really like a LOT but stake no claim to it)

Edited October 26, 2006 by clifford_thornton

[jon abbey]

the rest of us for looking & listening a LOT harder, & also being way funkier

nah, you're a white boy, just like me, sorry. I listen to plenty of Fela and hiphop and whatever also, but I don't go around claiming ultra-funkiness, or trying to pretend to be something I'm not (feel free to take that on multiple levels).

[clifford_thornton]

White boys can't swing? Is THAT what you're saying?

Fuck that. Even AMMMusic (EUK-265, beeyotch) swings!

[jon abbey]

White boys can't swing? Is THAT what you're saying?

Fuck that. Even AMMMusic (EUK-265, beeyotch) swings!

nope, I'm saying that clementine/D. Strauss isn't very funky, no matter what he listens to. that's all I'm saying.

[clifford_thornton]

I think you've taken this to a whole new level, man. Clem too, but jeez, it's definitely Bags-level shit. Where's Derek Taylor when you need him?

[jon abbey]

I think you've taken this to a whole new level, man. Clem too, but jeez, it's definitely Bags-level shit. Where's Derek Taylor when you need him?

not sure why I get the blame, I was only talking about music. Mr. Strauss was the one who made it personal.

[jon abbey]

Some folks will create with their "eyes on the prize" - so to speak...other's will give up, because "there's nothing really new under the sun" while other folks will press on doing what they enjoy without regard to it's current or future possibilities. It's those folks that I enjoy the most.

again, I don't really agree with the way you divide things here. first of all, there really is no "prize" in this world, even many of the biggest names have to take a full-time job or rely on others for financial support. the only prize is in funding institutions or the academic world, and people generally have to water down their art a fair amount to get those, that's not the artists I'm talking about.

but more importantly, what plenty of artists enjoy doing (or more strongly, need to do to live with themselves) is trying to create something genuinely new. you may think that's fruitless or a waste of their time, and you may even be right (although I don't think so), but that's what they feel compelled to do, just as much as the "folks you enjoy the most".

[jon abbey]

we

you, just you, silly rabbit.

[jon abbey]

none of us, most of us, tell us

seriously, man, this "us" conceit you insist upon is about as accurate as 2006 Bruce Springsteen thinking he speaks for the working-class.

I'd say I've heard a fair amount of classical electroacoustic music, although nowhere near as much as someone like Keith Whitman has. it tends to not interest me very much, with a handful of huge exceptions (Xenakis, Stockhausen-Telemusik, Ashley-Automatic Writing, Riley-You're Nogood, Dockstader-Apocalypse and Quatermass, Parmegiani-De Natura Sonoorum and La Creation Du Monde, Ferrari-Presque Rien, probably a few others). I don't think it's so directly connected to EAI, though; I know plenty of people who like one of those areas quite a bit and not the other (both ways), my darling Clementine being a local example.

[7/4]

again, I don't really agree with the way you divide things here. first of all, there really is no "prize" in this world, even many of the biggest names have to take a full-time job or rely on others for financial support. the only prize is in funding institutions or the academic world, and people generally have to water down their art a fair amount to get those, that's not the artists I'm talking about.

"Prize" doesn't necessarily mean money or financial gain.

The prize can be as simple as folks enjoying ones work. Or at least an article or a review. When they're raving about ones work, that's good.

Money or may be even lots of of it would be nice, but that ain't always happening.

And back to some early posts, if folks think the so called avant-garde sucks, take a break. Listen to some other shit for a while and come back with a fresh new perspective.

Edited October 26, 2006 by 7/4

[jon abbey]

none of us woulda cared if you just said, oh, there's this branch of (mostly) '50s/'60s codified music that's still going on, if you like the textures/timbres, it's an enjoyable ride, tho' i'll admit it's kinda uptight & NOT what i'd recommend to anyone as a primary music.

see, this is where you show your ignorance in your haste to write off an area you know little about. you're making connections that don't exist, not to mention just making shit up. I'm sure there are plenty of areas of music you know a ton about, and plenty of areas you know way more about than I do, but this isn't one of them.

and your three card monte style of posting may work with some people, but I can tell there's nothing under any of your shells on this topic, sorry.

[Chuck Nessa]

I'd say I've heard a fair amount of classical electroacoustic music, although nowhere near as much as someone like Keith Whitman has. it tends to not interest me very much, with a handful of huge exceptions (Xenakis, Stockhausen-Telemusik, Ashley-Automatic Writing, Riley-You're Nogood, Dockstader-Apocalypse and Quatermass, Parmegiani-De Natura Sonoorum and La Creation Du Monde, Ferrari-Presque Rien, probably a few others). I don't think it's so directly connected to EAI, though; I know plenty of people who like one of those areas quite a bit and not the other (both ways), my darling Clementine being a local example.

Did you misread this? "noooooooooooooooooo... ersatz Jon Abbey, who seems very eager to deflect attention from the fact he seems relatively uneducated in pre-electronic western classical (let's call it from Perotin to Present, tho' we can go further back than that w/appropriate degrees of conjecture) has to posture Significance."

[jon abbey]

Did you misread this?

you're right, I did. that's certainly true, although even more pointless to this discussion, in my opinion. you can't be an expert on everything, even if you think you are (ahem, Mr. Strauss).

[jon abbey]

also, when it is relevant, it tends to be in projects involving musicians who have forgotten more about classical music history than Mr. Silly Rabbit will ever know (Tilbury, Rowe).

[JSngry]

How old is Ras Moshe?