John Coltrane - First Giant Steps

[Soulstation1]

worth picking up coltrane's first giant steps?

as per usual

Emusic Pimpin'

Edited November 2, 2006 by Soulstation1

[Chuck Nessa]

No.

[Spontooneous]

Wow. I used to have a sweater that looked just like that album cover.

I still have nightmares about that period in my life.

[JSngry]

There's no "Giant Steps" on here. It's Trane w/his Navy band, and the results are strictly for scholars and/or fanatics only.

The Hodges stuff is really cool in its own way, but again, mainly for scholars and/or fanatics.

Also - this stuff has been circulating among collectors long enough that you shouldn't have to get it from a straightup bootleg label, through emusic or otherwise.

[7/4]

Our buddy Phil Schaap @ WKCR has been broadcasting this for years on birthday broadcasts.

[J Larsen]

Well, if it's for Trane fanatics, I guess I'm going to have to hunt myself up a copy, whether through this particular dodgy label or some other dodgy label...

[Matthew]

Well, if it's for Trane fanatics, I guess I'm going to have to hunt myself up a copy, whether through this particular dodgy label or some other dodgy label...

Yeah, I know that feeling about 'Trane now....

[brownie]

Well, if it's for Trane fanatics, I guess I'm going to have to hunt myself up a copy, whether through this particular dodgy label or some other dodgy label...

Most of this material has been released so far on grey market labels only!

[sal]

No.

[robert h.]

Anyone who has heard this stuff wouldn't pay a nickel for it. There's not enough time to listen to all the good music. This stuff is just really, really bad - Trane was a terrible player in this period. It's unfortunate this stuff gets released, but some will pay for it I guess.

[Big Beat Steve]

That reminds me of another early Trane record I've tried to locate for some time:

Coltrane 1951 on Oberon 5100 (another gray label, I know...)

featuring 1951 airshots by the Dizzy Gillespie orchestra (with young Trane on Tenor and soloing here and there it seems).

I am trying to get this mainly for Diz's bebop band but hearing a glimpse of early Trane would be nice from a historical point of view too.

Any copies for sale out there anywhere or is the material included on this LP available on any other reissues too?

Edited November 3, 2006 by Big Beat Steve

[Matthew]

Anyone who has heard this stuff wouldn't pay a nickel for it. There's not enough time to listen to all the good music. This stuff is just really, really bad - Trane was a terrible player in this period. It's unfortunate this stuff gets released, but some will pay for it I guess.

I find it interesting to track the development of Coltrane; how someone who was "a terrible player" turned into one of the greatest musicians on the 20th centuary. Not the standard thing for a musician in any genre, is it?

[JSngry]

Trane in the Navy was indeed rough, but Trane with Hodges is a man at work.

[robert h.]

Anyone who has heard this stuff wouldn't pay a nickel for it. There's not enough time to listen to all the good music. This stuff is just really, really bad - Trane was a terrible player in this period. It's unfortunate this stuff gets released, but some will pay for it I guess.

I find it interesting to track the development of Coltrane; how someone who was "a terrible player" turned into one of the greatest musicians on the 20th centuary. Not the standard thing for a musician in any genre, is it?

I guess you've never tried to play an instrument.

Musicians don't just pick up an instrument and become great overnight - it takes years of hard work to get there. Great musicians are 20% talent and 80% hard work, and Coltrane was no exception, indeed, it actually tok him longer to really get there - he only really become a great, or even very good player in his 30's - even his early to mid 50's stuff shows him struggling with intonation and his conception, which was far from fluid. Once he got it together, he took off. He was practicing upwards of 8 hours a day to do it.

It most definitely IS the standard thing for every player in every genre. They all start out as terrible players.

[Soulstation1]

so this is the first john coltrane ever recorded?

[JSngry]

The Navy stuff is, yeah.

[Hot Ptah]

I think that all of Coltrane's work in the late 1940s--early 1950s era is not of much interest, whether with Dizzy or Hodges.

What is interesting to me is the degree to which Coltrane improved. It is relatively common to hear improvements in most jazz artists with a recording career, from their earliest recordings to a later date. However, Coltrane's improvement is much more dramatic than with many other musicians.

[robert h.]

All of a sudden, in 1957 everything came together at once. Coltrane himself taked about it occasionally in interviews. It had a lot to do with getting off drugs and his short time with Monk.

[Big Beat Steve]

All of a sudden, in 1957 everything came together at once.

Hey, he wasn't THAT bad on the "Mating Call" session with Tadd Dameron (1956) - or in his work with the Miles Davis Quintet in the same year (or doesn't his hard bop period count at all?).

[robert h.]

Everything is relative - compared to Rollins in the same period, or Getz, or even Stitt, he was - and compared to the Coltrane of a few years later with Giant Steps, he was too.

[RDK]

That reminds me of another early Trane record I've tried to locate for some time:

Coltrane 1951 on Oberon 5100 (another gray label, I know...)

featuring 1951 airshots by the Dizzy Gillespie orchestra (with young Trane on Tenor and soloing here and there it seems).

I am trying to get this mainly for Diz's bebop band but hearing a glimpse of early Trane would be nice from a historical point of view too.

Any copies for sale out there anywhere or is the material included on this LP available on any other reissues too?

This was, uh, shared, a while back on dimeadozen.org. Should check it out.

[J Larsen]

That reminds me of another early Trane record I've tried to locate for some time:

Coltrane 1951 on Oberon 5100 (another gray label, I know...)

featuring 1951 airshots by the Dizzy Gillespie orchestra (with young Trane on Tenor and soloing here and there it seems).

I am trying to get this mainly for Diz's bebop band but hearing a glimpse of early Trane would be nice from a historical point of view too.

Any copies for sale out there anywhere or is the material included on this LP available on any other reissues too?

This was, uh, shared, a while back on dimeadozen.org. Should check it out.

I would, but I'm not so sure about the relative ethical economics.

[RDK]

I would, but I'm not so sure about the relative ethical economics.

I'm fairly certain that Trane's relatives aren't seeing a dime... -_-

On the other hand, this stuff isn't of high enough quality to likely ever see a legit release.

[Chuck Nessa]

I would, but I'm not so sure about the relative ethical economics.

I'm fairly certain that Trane's relatives aren't seeing a dime... -_-

On the other hand, this stuff isn't of high enough quality to likely ever see a legit release.

Well, there goes that Uptown Johnny Hodges issue.

[J Larsen]

I would, but I'm not so sure about the relative ethical economics.

I'm fairly certain that Trane's relatives aren't seeing a dime... -_-

On the other hand, this stuff isn't of high enough quality to likely ever see a legit release.

Well, there goes that Uptown Johnny Hodges issue.

Would you at least burn me a copy?