The Beach Boys

[Guy Berger]

1) Pet Sounds is a little overrated -- a very nice album, influential obviously, but not THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME as some PS-pushers would have you believe.

2) What are your favorite non-Pet Sounds BB tracks? Some personal favorites -- "Don't Worry Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "California Girls", "I Get Around", "The Warmth of the Sun", "When I Grow Up".

3) Is the "Brother Years" compilation worth getting?

Guy (does this post totally undermine my credibility?)

Edited April 6, 2007 by Guy

[Teasing the Korean]

As I've gotten older, the surf/hot rod songs haven't aged well. I appreciate them for what they are, but don't spin them very often.

Non Pet Sounds tracks?

The two albums prior to Pet Sounds, Today and Summer Days, are both loaded with good songs (especially the former) which hint at the direction Brian would take with Pet Sounds. "Let Him Run Wild" and "Little Girl I Once Knew" would both fit nicely on Pet Sounds, in terms of lyrics, production, and composition.

And the 4 Capitol albums after Pet Sounds are really solid: Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, and 20/20.

"Let the Wind Blow" from Wild Honey is stunning. Carl sings a very soulful version of this song on their 70s live album, too.

"Friends" is probably their most solid album after Pet Sounds, offbeat and beautiful.

I love all the Dennis songs from this period, especially "Be With Me" and "Little Bird."

As for the post Capitol (Brother) years, you'd be better off getting the twofer of Sunflower and Surf's Up, if you don't already have it (IMHO).

[J Larsen]

It's only in the last few years that I've been able to appreciate anything that these guys did at all. Until I was in my very late 20s it left me completely cold. Now I like Pet Sounds quite a bit, as well as Surf's Up (Sunflower, the album currently packaged with Surf's Up, is not something I would listen to of my own free will).

[Guy Berger]

don't undermind or overmind but it is redundant-- we been down this path many many times i'm almost certain.

edc

I must've missed that thread...

Guy

[sheldonm]

1) Pet Sounds is a little overrated -- a very nice album, influential obviously, but not THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME as some PS-pushers would have you believe.

2) What are your favorite non-Pet Sounds BB tracks? Some personal favorites -- "Don't Worry Baby", "Please Let Me Wonder", "California Girls", "I Get Around", "The Warmth of the Sun", "When I Grow Up".

3) Is the "Brother Years" compilation worth getting?

Guy (does this post totally undermine my credibility?)

Love Pet Sounds...not the greatest recording of all times.....but I love it! Generally like the old hot rod/surf stuff but don't listen that often.

m~

[jazzbo]

I've got the Capitol box set. For me it. . . just the right amount, well-selected.

[Chalupa]

I love "Girl Don't Tell Me".

[JSngry]

1) Pet Sounds is a little overrated -- a very nice album, influential obviously, but not THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME as some PS-pushers would have you believe.

Well, since there is no such thing (or many such things), you'll get no argument from me about this. But I will say that it's an album that holds up well (i.e. - keeps giving up with new information) over the years. I've been coming back to it for about 30 years now and still find new things in it. Very few pop albums hold up on those terms for me. Consciously or not, the songs create a linear narrative from start to finish, and the arrangements/productions are in perfect sync w/the unfolding of that narrative. Combine that w/the sheer density of most of the tracks (the PS box set is one of those things that's for fanatics only, but it also shed a lot of light on the specifics within that density), and you got something to keep you occupied for as long as you're willing to be occupied.

I trust that you've picked up on the latter-day "completed" Smile? If not, you probably should. It's some stunning stuff.

[J Larsen]

I think I actually got into Smile first, then went back to Pet Sounds and found that it made a lot more sense to me. Smile is just awesome - one of the best new releases of the last several years that I am aware of.

[JSngry]

...but everything up to "Beach Boys Love You" is worth hearing to one degree or another.

Almost. I have still have a tough time with Carl and the Passions/So Tough, even with "Marcella" & "Be Still". When playing the "would you rather have these songs in spite of the album as a whole or would you rather not have the songs at all if it means not having the ablum game" I've pretty much concluded that it's the latter.

But Love You, hey, that's a wacked out freakin' gem of an underrated work of parallel-universe self-contained geek genius . I was there at the time, and to say that people were..."confused" is putting it mildly. But the people who knew knew, and the impact on the underground was damn near immediate. I think you can safely call it the delayed SoCal doppelganger to There's a Riot Going On.

[JSngry]

I also think it's important to distinguish be tween"The Beach Boys" & "Brian Wilson". Deeply intertwined though they may be, there's ultimately a distinction between the two that must be made when it comes to sorting out all the bi-lateral hypes & exaggerations, and in my mind, it's a distinction that results in Brian mattering in a way that the Beach Boys don't. In what way he matters is a deeply personal one, but let me just say that if you're a Caucasian-American of a certain (more specific than the hype wants you to believe but less specific than the detractors hope you realize) "type" & "vintage" & haven't -or more to the point, won't - come to terms with what the Brian Wilson "ideal" was dealing with in its own highly flawed & ill-fated way, then you probably have no right to listen to any non-Caucasian-American music as anything other than wish/fantasy-fullfillment lifestyle accessory. Once you do come to terms with it, you're free, but until you do, hey - you're only kidding yourself.

[Teasing the Korean]

...

But Love You, hey, that's a wacked out freakin' gem of an underrated work of parallel-universe self-contained geek genius . I was there at the time, and to say that people were..."confused" is putting it mildly. But the people who knew knew, and the impact on the underground was damn near immediate. I think you can safely call it the delayed SoCal doppelganger to There's a Riot Going On.

"Love You" is to outsider art what "Pet Sounds" is to pop music. Absolutely essential.

[Lush Life]

"Don't Worry, Baby" and "Heroes and Villains" are my two favorite Beach Boys recordings. I'll admit to being a fan of their vocal harmonies and Brian's inventive instrumentation and studio work, so much so that I have a bunch of the Sea of Tunes box sets that show the various works in progress. The kinds of studio multi-track trickery we take for granted now were really difficult to pull off back in 1965 or so.

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

Chewy chew chew is the biggest beach boys fan: i have every album they ever made and i like the 70s stuff a whole lot too- i also have most of the solo stuff including the great Dennis wilson solo lp- PACIFIC OCEAN BLUE as well as his 2nd unreleases lp which is even better. their 70s albums are the bomb. i also have double cd sets of the capitol studio reels for each of their 60s albums, from "surfin usa" through their 1st live in concert album through even the smile sessions and pet sounds

the common perception of brian being crazy is very off- if you listen to the pet sounds or even the smile reels you hear that he compeletly has his shit together and knows what he wants: he is so specific- you hear him go hal i need more cowbell on the 2nd measure and less on the 4th, etc. the only time he got crazy is when mike love would show up

[Stereojack]

Lots of stuff to rave about:

Catch a Wave / In My Room / Don't Worry Baby / The Warmth of the Sun / She Knows Me Too Well / Girl Don't Tell Me / Summer Means New Love / God Only Knows / Pet Sounds / Heroes and Villains / Here Comes the Night / Anna Lee, the Healer / Little Bird / Our Prayer / This Whole World / Feel Flows / Lookin' at Tomorrow / Surf's Up / Marcella / Funky Pretty / It's OK / Hey Little Tomboy / Good Timin'

Finally hearing the "finished" Smile after having known it in bits and pieces over the years was a revelation. A brilliant achievement! Has anyone seen the Smile DVD? I highly recommend it - beautifully filmed and recorded, and a near-flawless performance.

I love Pet Sounds, but like others here, don't think it's head and shoulders above the albums that immediately preceded and followed it. As well as I thought I knew the album, the Pet Sounds box really opened it up, and my estimation of Brian's genius shot way up! He had the whole thing in his head and just needed to convey it to the musicians bit by bit.

[JSngry]

the only time he got crazy is when mike love would show up

That would be enough to make anybody go crazy.

[GA Russell]

Well, I love The Four Freshmen, so you know I'm going to give thumbs up to the Beach Boys!

I've slowly obtained all of the twofer CDs up to Surf's Up. Other than Pet Sounds, Today may be my favorite album.

Having grown up with their music and listened to it a great deal between 1985 and 1995, I've grown a little tired of just about all of it. But that doesn't mean that it isn't great.

Guy, if I were to recommend only one CD it would be the compilation Endless Summer. But at Your Music prices, you might as well load up!

By the way, I bought their Brother Greatest Hits LP twenty years ago and enjoyed it. I think it's better than their post-Friends Capitol albums, but I can't comment on any particular Brother LP.

[Harold_Z]

I've got the Capitol box set. For me it. . . just the right amount, well-selected.

Just about my take. I would maybe toss in the "Pet Sounds" cd.

[Teasing the Korean]

Incredibly, the box set does not include "Let Him Run Wild" - at Brian's request!!! They even address this in the booklet with the box. This has to be one of their best ever records. If you get the box set, you'll still need "Let Him Run Wild."

[J Larsen]

In what way he matters is a deeply personal one, but let me just say that if you're a Caucasian-American of a certain (more specific than the hype wants you to believe but less specific than the detractors hope you realize) "type" & "vintage" & haven't -or more to the point, won't - come to terms with what the Brian Wilson "ideal" was dealing with in its own highly flawed & ill-fated way, then you probably have no right to listen to any non-Caucasian-American music as anything other than wish/fantasy-fullfillment lifestyle accessory.

You know, my initial problem with the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson is that they sounded very "middle class" to me, and I harbored a bit of a grudge against that in my youth. I think it was only after I came to terms with that that I could get into their music. It was a long time before I could take any music that lacked a certain "bite" seriously.

[JSngry]

In what way he matters is a deeply personal one, but let me just say that if you're a Caucasian-American of a certain (more specific than the hype wants you to believe but less specific than the detractors hope you realize) "type" & "vintage" & haven't -or more to the point, won't - come to terms with what the Brian Wilson "ideal" was dealing with in its own highly flawed & ill-fated way, then you probably have no right to listen to any non-Caucasian-American music as anything other than wish/fantasy-fullfillment lifestyle accessory.

You know, my initial problem with the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson is that they sounded very "middle class" to me, and I harbored a bit of a grudge against that in my youth. I think it was only after I came to terms with that that I could get into their music. It was a long time before I could take any music that lacked a certain "bite" seriously.

My point exactly, more or less.

I know plenty of white, suburban, middle-class people who still hate the Beach Boys precisely because they sound white, suburban, and middle-class. So they look anywhere/everywhere else for things like "soul" and "edge", never coming to terms with those things as it relates to their first-hand life experiences.

Well, ok, but at some point, when does that become vicarious thrill-seeking at the expense of self-honesty? I mean, good god, there's pain in a lot of Brian's songs, there's soul, there's feeling, deep feeling, and there's a thread of spirituality running through his best work. It's just coming out in a very white, suburban, and middle-class way. But that's what it and him are, just as that's what a lot of "us" are. And if we can't find it in ourself, recognize it, and be comfortable with it as such, how the hell can we deal wit it in others without projecting some sort of personal "need" onto it that turns it into something differnt/less than it really is?

Of all the routes in America, being white, suburban, and middle-class is definitely one of the "easiest" to travel. But it's precisely that ease which leaves many feeling the need to go elsewhere for the tools of self-confrontation. And how the hell can you truly confront yourself through somebody/somewhere else? You can't, not unless you do it from a perspective of being fully comfortable (not comfortable in the "material" sense. but in the sense of feeling fully human beyond all that) with who and what you are.. All you can do is discover what others have, compare it against what you have or don't have, and develop self-loathing at some level. The constant rush to find the Great White Hope of The Blues is a perfect example. Sure, there's been some fine white blues players, but the ones that get the White Folk all excited are inevitably the ones who exaggerate & distort the subtleties of the medium in an attempt to prove (consciously or otherwise) to anybody/everybody how much "soul" they have. All they're really proving is how much soul they'd like to have...

For how long has somebody like Warne Marsh been labelled "cool", "intellectual", etc.? Hell, Warne Marsh was one soulful player with feeling out the ass. But it was a soulfulness and a feeling that came out of who he was, not out of what he and "the world" thought that soul and feeling should be. Big difference.

I'm all for personal growth, and I'm all for tearing down artificial barriers. But I'm all for those things for the purpose of people coming together to become the one soul that we really are, not for the purpose of letting people into "our" world so we can use them to get from them the fundamental humanity that we really have in ourself if we'd just be humble (and secure) enough to recognize it. Only when that dynamic is in place can any exchange take place that is not ultimately exploitative and one-sided. It's one thing to expand, it's another thing to mine, dig?

Sure, the above diatribe is only truly relevant to certain people of a certain time and certain place. But they exist in quantity, and if/when they turn up their nose at "Caroline, No" and then get a hard-on for "Please, Please, Please", you're seeing the truth in action. And it ain't pretty.

[ghost of miles]

I've had a hard time coming to grips with the Beach Boys (beyond PET SOUNDS, which really does transcend most cultural noise), partly for the reasons Jim cites above. And partly because every time I flip over to the oldies station on the car radio, they're playing one of the surf songs, which I've just come to loathe as an adult. I had ENDLESS SUMMER (as a friend once said, "ENDLESS SUMMER, they really meant it, man" ) on 8-track when I was a kid and loved it... and props to the BB's surf sound for inspiring the Ramones, the Jesus & Mary Chain, and a # of other fine groups to come down the Highway 1 of rock 'n roll ever since. But I really can't take "Little 409" & "I Get Around" etc. at all anymore and have to flip the dial before I start screaming. That said, I think Brian Wilson was one of the first to write songs that were genuine attempts to convey what it's like to be a teenager. There's something genuine there that I don't hear in most of the 1950s/early 1960s rock 'n roll I've encountered, or even in the Beatles' early work, for that matter. (Exceptions made primarily for some Lennon tunes like "Yes It Is," "I'm a Loser," maybe McCartney's "I'll Follow the Sun" and "I Saw Her Standing There" as well.) Not familiar enough with the post-SMILE (1967 version) material & this thread has given me some leads to follow up... an interesting flipside to what Jim says would be looking at the Velvet Underground and Lou Reed's post-VU work (pretty much ersatz-Velvet, counterfeit-decadence, though I'm certainly not the first to level that judgment)... how much of white suburban kids' love for the Velvets (and it still exists... I know a # of 20-22 yr olds who love 'em) is a somewhat similar attempt to transcend their origins? Is digging early VU just another way of slumming? I mean, I love that music, all the way through LOADED, but how much of my reason for loving it in the first place was that throwing "Sister Ray" on at a party when I was 19 made me feel as if I was living, ah, "dangerously"? Later on, when I got to know some people who truly lived a "Sister Ray" kind of life, didn't seem quite so cool or fucked-up glamorous, and the "danger" that was there was somehow of a pettier, but maybe ultimately more sinister, nature... of seeing people get their lives sidetracked badly, maybe forever... by their own twisted patterns that they couldn't break out of, more than a sailor-bursts-into-room-shoot-'em-dead-on-the-carpet variety.

[Teasing the Korean]

Is the "suburban white middle class" thing people are referring coming from the surf/hot rod lyrics, or from the music itself? I can certainly see this in the early stuff, but it's less obvious from "Today" on, at least in my opinion.

[J Larsen]

Just for the record, I made my comment above as someone who grew up really fucking poor (and yes Jim, I know you knew this). Hearing the Beach Boys as a kid made me want to kick them in the knees and tell them to get back on their boards and surf to a place far, far away from me.

But like I said, I'm over this now and can appreciate Pet Sounds and Smile.

And to comment on what someone said above, I've always thought that, for many of their fans, at least 50% of the appeal of VU was the slum factor.

[J Larsen]

Is the "suburban white middle class" thing people are referring coming from the surf/hot rod lyrics, or from the music itself? I can certainly see this in the early stuff, but it's less obvious from "Today" on, at least in my opinion.

There is a certain innocent and almost twee quality to their music that I (and I think others) associate with the comfort that comes with growing up middle class or better.