Why do people pay to hear music then talk while it's being played

[MartyJazz]

What I've always found annoying is the guy (never a woman) who feels he's got to be part of the act, e.g., he keeps shouting words of encouragement to a particular soloist, or keeps interjecting "yeah, yeah", etc. My attitude always is "STFU, I didn't come to hear you". I find that kind of auditory involvement terribly distracting. I recall specifically a Jackie McLean concert at Lincoln Center in the summer of '90 and there was this clown standing in the aisle next to me who kept a loud patter going particularly when Wallace Roney would solo. Drove me and I suspect other patrons, nuts.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It depends on the type of music - especially in Chicago. If I went to a Gene Ammons gig and nobody talked back to Gene and the band I'd know I was part of a really up-tight white audience AND the music would suffer.

Yessir! One of the REALLY great regrets of my life is never having seen Jug (or Gator Tail, for that matter).

In any case, from all accounts, Jug knew how to handle an audience - well, his audience, possibly not an up tight white audience.

Why does audience look like it's spelt wrong?

MG

[AllenLowe]

1) one night back in the 1980s at a noisy club in NYC called The Angry Squire (I think it was) Jaki Byard stood up at the end of his set and said - "welcome to the club blah blah blah" -

2) Al Haig was playing a set at the old Blue Hawaii in NYC (maybe 1978) and a group of people were talking REALLY loudly at a nearby table. Strangely enough, at the end of the set, they applauded enthusiastically - Haig looked over and said "I enjoyed your performance too" -

[Larry Kart]

It depends on the type of music - especially in Chicago. If I went to a Gene Ammons gig and nobody talked back to Gene and the band I'd know I was part of a really up-tight white audience AND the music would suffer.

As the first sentence suggests, Ammons et al. is a whole different type of thing than that Green Mill yack-fest. Nothing wrong with a fair bit of talking back if it's actual talking back and within the code of the scene.

[7/4]

My worst experience came in Tallahassee when Marcus Printup came to a club that doesn't even normally book jazz.

Who?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

It depends on the type of music - especially in Chicago. If I went to a Gene Ammons gig and nobody talked back to Gene and the band I'd know I was part of a really up-tight white audience AND the music would suffer.

As the first sentence suggests, Ammons et al. is a whole different type of thing than that Green Mill yack-fest. Nothing wrong with a fair bit of talking back if it's actual talking back and within the code of the scene.

Right. And when the chef brongs a birthday cake out to a front table and the band IMMEDIATELY switches into "Happy Birthday to you", that's when you know what it's about. And one of the reasons why jazz stopped being a popular music.

"Code of the scene": you all take this stuff much too seriously.

MG

[Larry Kart]

It depends on the type of music - especially in Chicago. If I went to a Gene Ammons gig and nobody talked back to Gene and the band I'd know I was part of a really up-tight white audience AND the music would suffer.

As the first sentence suggests, Ammons et al. is a whole different type of thing than that Green Mill yack-fest. Nothing wrong with a fair bit of talking back if it's actual talking back and within the code of the scene.

Right. And when the chef brongs a birthday cake out to a front table and the band IMMEDIATELY switches into "Happy Birthday to you", that's when you know what it's about. And one of the reasons why jazz stopped being a popular music.

"Code of the scene": you all take this stuff much too seriously.

MG

All I meant by "code of the scene" is knowing within reason who you are and where you are. If that birthday cake were being placed in front of 12-year-old girl and her parents, and you shouted, "Hey, kid, nice tits!" you'd be out of line, even if she did have them.

[Hot Ptah]

Adventures in audience noise, over the years:

I saw Big Joe Turner in a Boston club that served food, around 1979. He commented between songs, "I can hear every word of all of your conversations, you folks down front, and every time you bang your silverware on your plates, I can hear that too." The couples conversing intently did not change their facial expressions or stop talking at all. They kept on as if Big Joe was not there.

I saw Branford Marsalis and his quintet on its first American tour, at the Grand Emporium blues club in Kansas City. It was sold out. We had to share a table with two strangers, who spoke loudly throughout the entire set, never stopping to catch a breath. I finally asked them politely to be quiet and the woman almost punched me. She was incredulous that I would find anything wrong with it. They did not stop.

But then at a Dizzy Gillespie performance at the Jazz Showcase in Chicago in the spring of 1978, a short, thin man was shouting that he loved Dizzy during the songs. After about the third time, a truly huge man emerged slowly from a back room, picked the shouting man up and threw him up a flight of stairs. Problem solved.

At an Ella Fitzgerald concert at Hill Auditorium in Ann Arbor in December, 1979, a young African American man with huge dreadlocks screamed during Ella's vocals and ran down the center aisle to the front of the stage. He was quite disruptive to the music. Security officers moved in on him. Ella waved them off and had the young man come to the stage. She hugged him, talked nicely to him and after a while, asked him to please sit down and be quiet. He was quiet the rest of the concert.

My favorite example of audience talking during music: Sun Ra and his Arkestra played at Parody Hall in Kansas City in 1985 (I am sure of the date because near the end of the concert, Sun Ra chanted hundreds of times, "It's only 15 years until the 21st century!"). A young man in the audience stood up in the middle of a song, looking truly baffled and anxious. He shouted, "Oh man! Oh! Oh! There's something wrong with this music! There's something wrong with this music!" He then ran out of the club as fast as he could, with an agitated look on his face.

[BruceH]

People are morons.

[DukeCity]

A club that serves alcohol and/or food is not a concert hall. Conversation at a reasonable volume is ok, anything above that isn't, but expecting everybody inside a bar/restaurant to pretend that its a concert hall is pretty damn dumb.

It's all a matter of degree with me. I've been in clubs (as audience member and as performer) where there was plenty of loud, boisterous conversation. But if enough people are paying attention and responding in some way to the music, it all feels OK. How many is enough? It all depends.

[JSngry]

Unbelievable as it sounds, there are people who go out to a club for reasons other than serious music listening.

[medjuck]

Adventures in audience noise, over the years:

My favorite example of audience talking during music: Sun Ra and his Arkestra played at Parody Hall in Kansas City in 1985 (I am sure of the date because near the end of the concert, Sun Ra chanted hundreds of times, "It's only 15 years until the 21st century!"). A young man in the audience stood up in the middle of a song, looking truly baffled and anxious. He shouted, "Oh man! Oh! Oh! There's something wrong with this music! There's something wrong with this music!" He then ran out of the club as fast as he could, with an agitated look on his face.

I saw Archie Shepp around the time of Mama Too Tight and during a brief pause in one of the free numbers somone yelled out "One more time!". As I remember it a lot of people left during the performance but to do so they had to pass right in front of the band. I thought it was a great piece of theater. Of course I thoght that about a lot of things in my life at the time.

[medjuck]

Unbelievable as it sounds, there are people who go out to a club for reasons other than serious music listening.

Then why don't they go to a club that doesn't have serious music?

[AllenLowe]

well, I would never go to any club that would let me in -

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

well, I would never go to any club that would let me in -

Sure your name isn't Oscar?

MG

[JSngry]

A more fitting question would be why most clubs that present "serious music" don't create/nurture a "serious listening" vibe. The answer is simple - they need to sell food and alcohol to make their nut, so they need that clientele as much if not more than they do the "serious listener".

This whole notion that you ought to be able to go into a bar - a freakin' bar for cryin' out loud, no matter how much they gussy it up, it's still a goddamned BAR - and have a "concert hall experience" is just as fucking laughable as thinking that you ought to be able to go into a concert hall, knock back some shots, laugh it up, and score some tail.

It's up to the house to set the tone, and as long as they need the revenue that "non-serious listeners" bring, the shit's gonna be what it is. Big whoop, and let's move on. I've lived in a world where there were neighborhood jazz joints (yeah, they were joints) & one where there are "concert series". 9 times out of 10, the best music got made in the joints. Simple fact, warts, imperfections, distractions and all.

Tell you what - when the "serious listening crowd" develops the social & spending habits of the people who now keep the bar/restaurants in business, then we'll maybe - maybe - see serious listening rooms spring up and flourish across This Great Land Of Ours. Until then, when you go into a bar to hear some music, you're doing just that - going into a bar. If it's a bar that's cultivated a listening environment & clientele, cool. But if it's not, oh well. Their economic viability is far more centered on the people who come out for social reasons several times a week & drop big bucks on living it up than it is on a few people who go out once or twice a year and nurse a few beers to get the chance to hear some music.

This is the reality.

[kh1958]

Personally, I prefer a happy medium. Concert halls are too stiff and formal. They are also often too large. I have zero interest in going to a club that has a noisy and loud patronage. The best places I've been to are clubs like the Village Vanguard, Jazz Standard, Birdland, Sweet Basil/Rhythm--where the space is intimate, the sound is good, and there is at least a general expectation that the audience will remain reasonably quiet and respectful of the music.

[mjzee]

I remember seeing Tommy Flanagan/George Mraz duo at Bradley's (the only time I got to see Tommy). Bradley's had this reputation as a great place to hear quiet (no drums) jazz. Bull; people talked loudly throughout the set. I sat near the stage and could barely hear George.

I remember seeing Keith Jarrett at the Vanguard around 1976 (I think the quartet with Dewey). He made this very serious pronouncement at the beginning of the set that we should be very quiet while they played, and that the waitresses will not serve during the performance. About 20 minutes into the performance, the waitresses came out to solicit more drinks. Someone asked one of them about what Keith had said, and she just rolled her eyes. I laughed; her attitude was a wonderful antidote to the atmosphere.

But probably the worst incident I saw was Javon Jackson at Iridium (when they were at Lincoln Center). Great band, with Larry Goldings. There's a party of 8 at the table right in front of the stage. Dinner's served first, and they're having a nice time. Jackson and the band came out, and IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIRST SONG, the entire party of 8 got up and walked out. Boy, did that deflate the band; I really felt for them.

[DTMX]

... As I remember it a lot of people left during the performance but to do so they had to pass right in front of the band. I thought it was a great piece of theater.

In Atlanta, the Bang on a Can All-Stars were playing a lengthy rendition of Brian Eno's Music for Airports at a small theater - a theater so small that you had to walk across the stage to get to the seats. So when the people in the audience wanted to walk out during the performance they had to step onstage and walk across it to the exit - and dodge the guitarist's chair along the way. Some slunk out, some strode out. And the guitarist (I have forgotten his name) would smile at them as they passed by (not missing a note).

[Soul Stream]

I think my gig last night covered the whole spectrum of the kinds of people you get in a typical jazz club....

When I walked into the bar, there was a fucking drunk chick sitting ON TOP OF MY GODDAMN HAMMOND B3!!!! Beer in hand, feet on the bench and laughing her ass off with her group of dumbass 20-something friends. Mind you, the B3 is on stage and not an easy place to go sit on top of. So after I yelled at the beotch and kicked her off my b3...we got set up and began to play. Her and her friends sat there talking loudly and oblivious to the fact that 3 guys were playing music 3 feet away from them. They were so loud, they drowned us out. After about 3 songs, they finally left. Sadly, they were the only customers. We finished the set, playing to the bartender. The next set, about 40 people showed up who sat quietly listening and were warm and receptive. Applauding the solos and really digging the music. THAT'S reality. And probably always has been like that. Bars and Concert Halls are just a different thing.

[7/4]

Personally, I prefer a happy medium. Concert halls are too stiff and formal. They are also often too large. I have zero interest in going to a club that has a noisy and loud patronage. The best places I've been to are clubs like the Village Vanguard, Jazz Standard, Birdland, Sweet Basil/Rhythm--where the space is intimate, the sound is good, and there is at least a general expectation that the audience will remain reasonably quiet and respectful of the music.

Yeah, I like a small venue too. In the same spirit, North Indian Classical music is best at a house concert. It's right "there" man.

[7/4]

But then at a Dizzy Gillespie performance at the Jazz Showcase in Chicago in the spring of 1978, a short, thin man was shouting that he loved Dizzy during the songs. After about the third time, a truly huge man emerged slowly from a back room, picked the shouting man up and threw him up a flight of stairs. Problem solved.

[Hot Ptah]

But then at a Dizzy Gillespie performance at the Jazz Showcase in Chicago in the spring of 1978, a short, thin man was shouting that he loved Dizzy during the songs. After about the third time, a truly huge man emerged slowly from a back room, picked the shouting man up and threw him up a flight of stairs. Problem solved.

Another detail--after the shouting man was literally thrown out, which was quite a spectacle, Joe Segal came out and said that the man had a tape recorder on him and could we believe that he was trying to tape the show, so we should just forget about it and enjoy Dizzy's music.

From what I observed, there was no opportunity for the Jazz Showcase staff to have searched the shouting man for recording devices before he flew through the air.

[medjuck]

As I remember it, Mingus was famous for haranguing noisy audiences. I thnk it was Charles who announced to a talkative crowd: "Tell me where you work and I'll come and bother you some day."

[Guy Berger]

Personally, I prefer a happy medium. Concert halls are too stiff and formal. They are also often too large. I have zero interest in going to a club that has a noisy and loud patronage. The best places I've been to are clubs like the Village Vanguard, Jazz Standard, Birdland, Sweet Basil/Rhythm--where the space is intimate, the sound is good, and there is at least a general expectation that the audience will remain reasonably quiet and respectful of the music.

I'm with kh1958. I don't like seeing jazz in concert halls, though I prefer those over a noisy club where I can't hear the music.

Guy