At least 21 dead at Virginia Tech

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

This is a terrible thing. It's worse than Dunblane and Hungerford put together.

MG

[Brownian Motion]

This is so fucking sad and disturbing. The newest accounts suggest that this kid did in fact make a number of bomb threats. More important is that he bought one gun, waited thirty days to buy a second one (legally) and then went on a rampage. So this was pre-meditated at pretty much every level. It is so hard to know what goes through people's minds, but you have to be totally sick and basically devoid of normal human emotions to be able to plan to murder dozens of people.

I just read that he was an English major, and that his creative writing was so disturbing that he was encouraged to seek counseling. Can't imagine counseling could have made a difference.

[Shawn]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

[Scott Dolan]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

So what would your suggestion be?

[GA Russell]

I don't believe the article I linked to last night is correct about calling Ryan Clark the new love interest of Emily Hilscher. Maybe, but I don't think so.

Here is a description of events from another newspaper:

The pair were neighbours in rooms 4040 and 4042 on the fourth floor of the West Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory ...

Witnesses to the shooting said that the gunman was involved in an argument with a girlfriend and had later stormed out of the dormitory building.

A counsellor – believed to be Mr Clark, who was also a resident adviser – was called to calm the situation at the dormitory.

The gunman returned at 7.15am and shot Ms Hilscher and Mr Clark.

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/stor...5001021,00.html

[Swinging Swede]

I just read that he was an English major, and that his creative writing was so disturbing that he was encouraged to seek counseling.

The Smoking Gun has published his one-act play Richard McBeef from last year. It may give you some insight into his psyche. Here's an excerpt:

"I hate him. Must kill Dick. Must kill Dick. Dick must die. Kill Dick... Richard McBeef. What kind of name is that? What an asshole name. I don't like it. And look at his face. What an asshole face. I don't like his face at all. You don't think I can kill you, Dick? You don't think I can kill you? Gotcha...got one eye. Got the other eye."

Here’s the link to the full play:

Richard McBeef by Cho Seung-Hui

[GregK]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

So what would your suggestion be?

How about outlaw guns? Why do people need to buy guns?

[Dan Gould]

CNN has that and one other of his one act plays he wrote for a creative writing class. Apparently they were to be uploaded to a site for classmates to download and critique in class. Given the way his classmate made it out to be an ultra violent piece of writing, I was a little surprised at how tame it was. Vile, nasty language, horribly written and totally unsuited to an upper division course for English majors was my reaction.

Anyone else wonder how this loner, "Mr. Question Mark" (because on a sign in sheet he wrote a question mark instead of his name, when asked by the teacher he stared silently) could have had a girlfriend to break up with? I wonder if this was some sort of unrequited love rather than an actual relationship.

[Scott Dolan]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

So what would your suggestion be?

How about outlaw guns? Why do people need to buy guns?

So making them illegal will make them magically disappear?

Can you name something illegal that hasn't thrived underground or on the blackmarket?

They outlawed pot. How did that work out?

Also, how do you propose getting all the guns off the streets to begin with?

[sjarrell]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

So what would your suggestion be?

How about outlaw guns? Why do people need to buy guns?

Yep. Make possession of a firearm an instant felony. Hunt with bow and arrow, or, better still, shop at the grocery store. This is the 21st century and the right to bear arms is an antiquated notion. Let's be done with the damned things.

[Scott Dolan]

And let's send Gestapo units door to door to enforce the rules!

Otherwise, I can't see how it could be done.

[sjarrell]

One of my best friends from childhood was shot dead in a parking lot outside a bar about 8 years ago.

Last year another of my friends shot himself in the head.

I HATE guns.

If this guy hadn't had access to a gun...what would the death toll have been if he was stabbing people? Not nearly as many I'm sure.

So what would your suggestion be?

How about outlaw guns? Why do people need to buy guns?

So making them illegal will make them magically disappear?

Can you name something illegal that hasn't thrived underground or on the blackmarket?

They outlawed pot. How did that work out?

Also, how do you propose getting all the guns off the streets to begin with?

It'd be a long process, but I like my instant felony idea. And the manufacturing could stop too. It seems like trying beats resignation. To me, anyway.

[sjarrell]

And let's send Gestapo units door to door to enforce the rules!

Otherwise, I can't see how it could be done.

That's a little over the top. So you're in the resignation camp?

[Scott Dolan]

No, the reality camp.

If there is a market for something, people will manufacture. If not here, offshore. But guns will still exist, and they will still be obtained. Only in this scenario mostly by the people you really don't want having them.

[sjarrell]

No, the reality camp.

If there is a market for something, people will manufacture. If not here, offshore. But guns will still exist, and they will still be obtained. Only in this scenario mostly by the people you really don't want having them.

Ah- "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". I have no idea how it can happen, but an attempt should be made.

We live in a country where our president's first concern, before trying to sooth the public, is to sooth the gun lobby. And I'd rant more in that direction, but figure I'm in the wrong part of the forum for that.

I got no answers. But the gun lobby is nearly as powerful as the baby Jesus is here in the USA, and it irritates me to no end.

[GregK]

It would be a start to completely outlaw them. I can think of no reason why anybody needs a gun. If people MUST hunt, well, at least rifles are harder to conceal.

[sjarrell]

It would be a start to completely outlaw them. I can think of no reason why anybody needs a gun. If people MUST hunt, well, at least rifles are harder to conceal.

Until you saw 'em off...

[RDK]

This is so fucking sad and disturbing. The newest accounts suggest that this kid did in fact make a number of bomb threats. More important is that he bought one gun, waited thirty days to buy a second one (legally) and then went on a rampage. So this was pre-meditated at pretty much every level. It is so hard to know what goes through people's minds, but you have to be totally sick and basically devoid of normal human emotions to be able to plan to murder dozens of people.

I just read that he was an English major, and that his creative writing was so disturbing that he was encouraged to seek counseling. Can't imagine counseling could have made a difference.

We've gotta be careful going in this direction too. If something you write is considered representative of what you could/would actually do, someone like Tarantino would be the biggest serial killer of them all.

Back in high school I wrote a short story in which a guy shot and killed Santa Claus. And yet I turned out okay.

Um...

[Scott Dolan]

I got no answers.

Fair enough, my friend. Neither do I.

[sjarrell]

I hope somebody comes up with some soon.

[BERIGAN]

Here is a link with more info than you could ever possibly read in full....Yes, a political site, but for the most part just the facts with little opinion....just skip the comments

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/04/17/brea...-seung-hui-cho/

[Scott Dolan]

I hope somebody comes up with some soon.

I think you'd have to dig deeper into the symptoms. And guns really aren't part of that, IMO. They may be a means to an end, but if you're hell bent on that patricular end, banning guns will not likely provide much of an obstacle. Again, it's just my opinion.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Scott Dolan

[vajerzy]

This is so sad......I work with people who went to VA Tech and most of them are engineers.....two kids from Richmond were killed- my son's roommate's cousin was shot.......I've been in Norris Hall- I know the campus fairly well......I'm just thinking of the poor parents, brothers, sisters, friends who've lost loved ones....I thought Gov Tim Kaine gave a touching heartfelt speech at the Convocation....and President Bush gave a nice speech also. Let the healing begin and let's hold off the blame game for a little while.

[GA Russell]

Here's the other side of the argument. This is from politico.com:

Ron Paul: More Guns Will Deter Shootings

By: Josh Kraushaar

April 17, 2007 03:32 PM EST

Ron Paul

Presidential Hopeful Ron Paul

Photo by Robert A. Reeder

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) has a simple solution to future shooting massacres such as the one that ripped apart Virginia Tech university Monday: more guns.

"People are a little more cautious if somebody might have a gun there," the GOP presidential candidate told Politico reporters Tuesday. "A concealed gun carried by a responsible person -- that might have ended the problem that they had at Virginia Tech with one person being killed or two people being killed."

Paul, 71, is the kind of lawmaker, and presidential candidate, gun control advocates love to hate at moments like this. And, based on public opinion polls and reader feedback at Politico.com, he's far from alone.

Echoing the views of many Americans, he sees calls for restriction on guns as an affront to freedom. The libertarian-minded Texan is one of the most outspoken defenders of gun rights in Congress. Since the obstetrician was first elected to Congress in 1976, he has never voted for a bill restricting gun ownership. And he said the tragedy in Blacksburg, Va., could have been prevented if the school allowed students and professors to carry concealed weapons on campus.

Paul, who ran for the Libertarian presidential nomination in 1988, is well known on Capitol Hill for his outspoken, maverick positions. He opposed authorizing federal funding to victims of Hurricane Katrina. He wants to abolish the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Department of Education. He has called for a return to the gold standard. He argues that tighter gun control laws would have no impact on gun crime.

"It's the lack of access to law-abiding citizens to have guns in many places that increases our crime rate," he said. "We just can't prevent every tragedy of a maniac. So to pretend this happened because of lack of laws would be the wrong thing to assume."

Despite his pro-gun rhetoric, Paul also often finds himself voting with Democrats, particularly in the area of civil liberties. He was one of only three Republican lawmakers to vote against the USA Patriot Act in 2001. He expressed concern that the Virginia Tech shootings would be exploited to crack down on civil liberties.

"I know there will be a call for, 'Boy, we've got to take hold of every single gun and register the gun.' It's sort of like after 9/11, we had to worry about terrorists, but what we've done is register every American," he said. "With national ID cards, inspection and loss of our liberties, warrantless searches, we've attacked law-abiding citizens. So, no, I don't think we need more gun control for law-abiding citizens."

Paul suggested that the Sept. 11 attacks could have been avoided if the pilots on the hijacked airliners had been armed. "If terrorists knew that every pilot had a gun in the cockpit, they wouldn't have done it," he said. "They would have all been shot and wouldn't have accomplished their mission."

[(BB)]

I do understand it's relevance, but would it be possible to move the debate on gun control to another thread?