are you a firstborn?

[alocispepraluger102]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/science/...agewanted=print

[Big Al]

I am the oldest of two, and my younger sister and I can very easily prove THAT guy wrong!

[porcy62]

There is another theory that said exactly the opposite. It's based on the fact that the second born learns things from the firstborn, actually he growns in a more challenging enviromental.

[Guy Berger]

There is another theory that said exactly the opposite. It's based on the fact that the second born learns things from the firstborn, actually he growns in a more challenging enviromental.

Well, the article isn't talking about a "theory" -- it's talking about the actual evidence, using a statistical examination of the empirical data.

I haven't read the paper so I can't vouch for its substance.

I'd be also interested in:

A) How second-borns compare to third-borns.

B) How first-borns in two child families compare to single children.

Since (I believe) wealthy families tend to have less children, these kinds of results could have interesting implications for wealth and income inequality.

Guy

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

There is another theory that said exactly the opposite. It's based on the fact that the second born learns things from the firstborn, actually he growns in a more challenging enviromental.

Well, the article isn't talking about a "theory" -- it's talking about the actual evidence, using a statistical examination of the empirical data.

I haven't read the paper so I can't vouch for its substance.

I'd be also interested in:

A) How second-borns compare to third-borns.

B) How first-borns in two child families compare to single children.

Since (I believe) wealthy families tend to have less children, these kinds of results could have interesting implications for wealth and income inequality.

Guy

I want to know about B, too. Only child; so's my wife; so's my daughter.

MG

[alocispepraluger102]

the assumption there is no intelligence difference between the sexes is interesting.

i would think there might be some differences based on the manner in which youngsters of different sexes are perceived and raised.

[porcy62]

Statistics are empty numbers, if you don't interpretate them "cum grano salis". Personally regarding children I am skeptical abou statistics, and Q.I. tests are questionable as well, though the NYT article is pretty honest, presenting the whole complexity of the issue. Usually newspapers look for strong headlines for circulation, regardless of accuracy and all the problems involved.

[porcy62]

the assumption there is no intelligence difference between the sexes is interesting.

i would think there might be some differences based on the manner in which youngsters of different sexes are perceived and raised.

You can bet there is, though not on the Q.I. tests.

[connoisseur series500]

What's a Q.I. test? Questionable intelligence?

[Guy Berger]

the assumption there is no intelligence difference between the sexes is interesting.

Well, we aren't talking about intelligence -- we are talking about IQ.

That said, this isn't an "assumption"; it seems to be an empirical fact.

Guy

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

IQ tests are very questionable. Over here, they are generally perceived to be loaded (inadvertently) in a way that results in middle and upper class kids doing better than those from poorer backgrounds. That may well have some kind of impact on this type of analysis.

I'm heavily unconvinced.

MG

[jazzbo]

I'm a first born (or rather, first surviving child, first born arrived stillborn) and my wife is a first born.

[Guy Berger]

IQ tests are very questionable. Over here, they are generally perceived to be loaded (inadvertently) in a way that results in middle and upper class kids doing better than those from poorer backgrounds.

This is probably true. That said...

That may well have some kind of impact on this type of analysis.

1) You would be right only if the IQ gap between 1st and 2nd borns varies according to economic background. An economic background effect that affects IQs across the board would have no impact on the results.

2) I would be very surprised if the authors did not attempt to control for economic background in their study.

edit: From what I can tell, the authors controlled for the parents' education level, maternal age at birth, family size and birthweight. To the degree that these factors fail to completely account for economic background AND economic background has different effects on the IQ of 1st and 2nd borns, MG's point is meaningful.

2nd edit: Upon brief examination of the paper, it looks like the authors DO control for the factors above but don't consider the possibility that they would have differential effects on 1st and 2nd borns. So while my point #1 still stands, point #2 is true but irrelevant.

Guy

Edited June 22, 2007 by Guy

[porcy62]

What's a Q.I. test? Questionable intelligence?

"Quoziente di Intelligenza" in the language of Dante Alighieri, a pretty clever guy.

[RDK]

Yes, I am. And I'm in 100% agreement with that study!

[RDK]

Though you wouldn't know it from reading my posts here...

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Though you wouldn't know it from reading my posts here...

MG

[Noj]

Youngest of three here.

[Chuck Nessa]

My wife and I are firstborn. Coincidentially both of us have younger siblings.

[alocispepraluger102]

My wife and I are firstborn. Coincidentially both of us have younger siblings.

figures.

[Chuck Nessa]

My wife and I are firstborn. Coincidentially both of us have younger siblings.

figures.

You an accountant or actuary?

[7/4]

My wife and I are firstborn. Coincidentially both of us have younger siblings.

figures.

How the hell did that happen?

Youngest of three here and my oldest sister is a fucking loon.

[alocispepraluger102]

My wife and I are firstborn. Coincidentially both of us have younger siblings.

figures.

You an accountant or actuary?

your preeminent intellect implies your being a firstling.

Edited June 22, 2007 by alocispepraluger102

[JSngry]

I'm the oldest of two (seperately & 4 years apart) adopted children. What our actual "birth order" is remains a mystery. So what does that mean?

[Chuck Nessa]

Means you be nuts.