Listening to Miles Davis

[dave9199]

Has anyone ever done this? Listened to all of Davis's legit releases back to back? I own the box sets, not the regular albums unless they weren't included in the sets. I put them on my ipod. I think I like Davis more than Coltrane which is news to me. There have been a few Coltrane albums I got rid of, not many, but a few (I don't need another live version of Impressions or My Favorite Things and some sideman stuff). The worst of Davis is still really good. I wouldn't be call it the worst either, just albums I don't like as much as others. It's easy to say the worst of Coltrane was his free period, but I like a lot of that though it doesn't stick with me the way something more melodic or funky, in the case of 70's Davis, does.

I'm not going through each album here, I just thought I'd note some things I felt while listening. I'm up to the 3rd disc on the 65-68 box right now. I think I just finished the Sorcerer album. I'm re-reading the books Milestones & So What as I listen to all of this.

I always liked Birth Of The Cool & the earlier Prestige stuff. Surprisingly, the stuff with Coltrane on Prestige never really did much for me, yet I love the Columbia box a lot more. I think it's just down to the choice of songs. I like the melodies on the Columbia box more than the Prestige Coltrane stuff. I went back and relistened to the whole Prestige box again and liked it a bit more. I wanted to give it another chance thinking maybe I was that into it when I started doing this. The Blue Note albums are just alright, not special to my ears. I remember liking the Lift To The Scaffold soundtrack initially, but this listen I was bored by it. I think it was all of the outtakes, whereas I like the regular album with all the reverb on it. I wasn't crazy about the 2nd half of Cannonball's Something Else, 1st half is good. The only "bootleg" I have is two sets from the last tour with Coltrane in 1960 and I still like those.

Kind Of Blue bores me.

I love Au-Leu-Cha at a fast tempo.

I love the 1st disc of the box set the most.

I love how fast the Newport set is.

I didn't expect to like the Gil Evans stuff and I think I got a cdr from Jim Sangrey of Miles Ahead back in the BNBB days. I liked it which was surprising because I didn't think I liked the muted sound of Davis's trumpet though with the box set, I got tired of hearing anything from Miles Ahead over & over. I thought I would need a break from it, but didn't stop.

I like Quiet Nights more than Sketches Of Spain.

Porgy & Bess is bluesier than I realized and that's a good thing.

I don't like jazz vocal that much, but I like Bob Douroughs' songs.

The Mobley period I thought would feel really long as I think he's not that interesting a player and it's difficult coming after Coltrane. I thought I'd be bored by the Blackhawk box, but it was o.k. I also thought I'd be bored by all of the live albums between 61-65. Again, it was o.k. I thought I'd be tired of the same songs being repeated so much as I'm not as into each solo from versions of the same song. I don't compare them unless they really stand out to me like Mobley's solo on So What from the Carnegie Hall show with Gil Evans in '61. I think the rest of the Someday My Prince Will Come album should've been part of the 63-64 box so that all the studio albums are on the sets. I know it would've changed the theme of that box. And the live Evans on the Evans box too.

More compression was needed when recording Davis with a mute. It can be fucking piercing.

Tony Williams is the Coltrane of the 2nd quintet and the Live At Antibes set is his best playing released so far along with the 2nd set of the 2nd night of the Plugged Nickel.

I like the fact that Sam Rivers sounds like Coltrane to me.

Wayne Shorter does not grab my attention during a solo unless he goes a bit out.

Without Williams, I don't see what so great about the 2nd quintet.

I think it really pointless to throw The Theme riff in there all the time & have it sound ragged just to signal the end of the set unless they play it as an actual song.

Why didn't Parker, Monk, Davis & Coltrane play different songs live instead of the same ones all the fucking time?

More to come...

[7/4]

I've certainly heard it in order from WKCR broadcasts over the years, but now I'm more likely to take a chunk - like the classic Shorter/Williams/Herbie grp in the studio - and listen to it in chronological order.

Otherwise, you have a long list of issues there...

Edited May 10, 2008 by 7/4

[Tom Storer]

Listen to all of Miles's legit releases back to back? Not even in France do we have that much time off.

But seriously, I don't know if I could do it. Miles's music is very beautiful and very intense but that much intensity demands relief. I'd need to take regular breaks to listen to something a little more light-hearted.

[WorldB3]

You lost me at "Without Williams, I don't see what so great about the 2nd quintet."

Anyway I am starting to get a bunch of the old Prestige records I didn't have and am finding I like them a lot more than I thought I would.

[GregK]

I started to do this same thing last December, after I bought the Richard Cook book about Miles and got the Prestige box for Christmas. I remember simply enjoying it a lot and gaining even more of an appreciation for all of Miles' music. However, I stopped somewhere around the early 70s; still can't listen to the funk between Cellar Door (which I like a lot) and Pangaea all in a row like that.

[bertrand]

Miles Davis has some legit releases?

[JSngry]

I didn't expect to like the Gil Evans stuff and I think I got a cdr from Jim Sangrey of Miles Ahead back in the BNBB days.

Really?

[dave9199]

I didn't expect to like the Gil Evans stuff and I think I got a cdr from Jim Sangrey of Miles Ahead back in the BNBB days.

Really?

I'm pretty sure it was you Jim.

Also I'm not listening to them all at once. I listen to them in my car. It's been about 2 months now.

About the Williams comment, that's just an opinion. It's how I felt listening to it this particular time.

[JSngry]

I remember sending you a bunch of Max OOP Euro stuff, just not anything by Miles. But I could be wrong, especially about something that happened more than a few days ago.

[Guy Berger]

I like the fact that Sam Rivers sounds like Coltrane to me.

Wayne Shorter does not grab my attention during a solo unless he goes a bit out.

Without Williams, I don't see what so great about the 2nd quintet.

Really don't agree with any of these statements. #2 and #3 are matters of taste of course but I really don't hear any similarity between Rivers and Coltrane. Very different players.

Why didn't Parker, Monk, Davis & Coltrane play different songs live instead of the same ones all the fucking time?

A bunch of reasons. One is that it gave audiences a sense of familiarity with the material. The second is that rehearsing new material requires work. And the third is that groups that place a high importance on improvisation might appreciate a high familiarity with a narrow range of material rather than a smaller familiarity with a wide range.

Guy

[Shawn]

I think that's just too much material to try to swallow in one dose, even if you space it out for awhile. As you start to get tired of hearing similar tones etc, it probably makes you more critical of the material than you would under other circumstances, just because your mind needs a break. If I tried it I probably wouldn't be able to listen to Davis again for years.

I think it's much more effective to focus on smaller periods for this type of listening, maybe a decade at once and then take a long break, something like that.

I do admire your effort though, I couldn't do it.

...

About the closest thing I've tried to this is making a compilation of all the recordings with Mobley & Horace Silver together...which also got tiring after awhile just because of the sameness of the material, I never made it all the way through. I still love these recordings, but they are much more effective in little bite size amounts.

[Chuck Nessa]

Dave's first post set me off so I decided to ignore the thread.

Say "thank you Dave".

[marcello]

More compression was needed when recording Davis with a mute. It can be fucking piercing.

I like Quiet Nights more than Sketches Of Spain.

[7/4]

More compression was needed when recording Davis with a mute. It can be fucking piercing.

I like Quiet Nights more than Sketches Of Spain.

I was wondering about those too.

[jlhoots]

Dave's first post set me off so I decided to ignore the thread.

Say "thank you Dave".

Me too.

I made one pass through this thread to date & I also say "thank you Dave".

[dave9199]

I think that's just too much material to try to swallow in one dose, even if you space it out for awhile. As you start to get tired of hearing similar tones etc, it probably makes you more critical of the material than you would under other circumstances, just because your mind needs a break. If I tried it I probably wouldn't be able to listen to Davis again for years.

Yes this is happening. I did not expect this to sound as critical as it did. Didn't realize it until after it was posted. I apologize, I just thought it might have a good point of conversation somewhere. I'll keep listening, but won't post how I felt about the rest of it.

[Shawn]

I think that's just too much material to try to swallow in one dose, even if you space it out for awhile. As you start to get tired of hearing similar tones etc, it probably makes you more critical of the material than you would under other circumstances, just because your mind needs a break. If I tried it I probably wouldn't be able to listen to Davis again for years.

Yes this is happening. I did not expect this to sound as critical as it did. Didn't realize it until after it was posted. I apologize, I just thought it might have a good point of conversation somewhere. I'll keep listening, but won't post how I felt about the rest of it.

No need to apologize for anything! I was just sharing an opinion about my own tolerances for critical listening. Share any opinions you have.

[dave9199]

I wasn't responding to your comment as much as others. Your comment does point out why some of my comments are critical. I thought it might be interesting for someone to say Kind Of Blue bores me. Maybe I should've said Kind Of Blue kind of bores me. It's just a bit on the mellow side for me personally. After coming off of Milestones, I didn't slide into that sound very well. I remember feeling annoyed when listening to it, but compared to the rest of the box, I always felt that way. The same way I feel about the 2nd quintet box; about half of the time I'm wondering where the theme of the song is. Especially with the ESP album, most of the themes just pass right by me. I have no problem with that, they just don't stick with me as much as others. There is a comment in the Milestones book that mentions the sameiness of the 2nd quintet & I've always felt that since I bought the box 6 years ago. It's not bad, it's just leaves me feeling not as excited as others who love this stuff. I was looking forward to feeling that & for the most part, never did aside from Williams's drumming. Maybe if I posted like this first, it would've been a better angle to come from. Saying short statements on the internet can look like someone is saying "...so fuck you" at the end of every sentence even though it's not what you meant. I really liked Miles Smiles as Gingerbread Boy is what made me buy the set after seeing a clip from the Ken Burns Jazz doc.

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

I think you have my sympathy, Dave. I'd NEVER try to play all of Grant Green's recordings in order. One of the problems that I think you get into if you try that sort of thing is league tables - X is (or feels) better than Y - and that's not what I want to think about.

MG

[Guy Berger]

For what it's worth - Miles's recordings from '55 onward were originally released on LPs and programming order usually makes a big difference. The music loses some of its potency if you listen to it in box set form.

Guy

[John L]

Dave: Thanks for this thread, and I mean it sincerely. It is interesting and refreshing to hear a Miles Davis fan coming to grips with the discography in a very personal way without feeling intimidated about contradicting the established orthodoxy. Those are your personal impressions, and let them stand.

I actually attempted to go through Miles' discography from the first quintet to first retirement not long ago. But I was then so taken by Coltrane's playing in Euope 1960 that I followed Coltrane after that from 1960-1962. It was a great journey, although I got kind of bogged down with too many My Favorite Things, and started listening to something else.

[MartyJazz]

Ditto on the observation that Coltrane and Rivers are very different tenor players and unique to the point that each is instantly recognizable. This difference was obviously discerned by Miles himself who used Coltrane in several of his recordings and live groups between 1955 and 1961. Rivers however simply appeared duing the Japan tour of July '64 following which Miles immediately opted for Wayne Shorter, Tony Williams verifying that Miles had no "eyes" for Rivers' tenor approach. I recall speaking to Sam many years ago (around '74) about this stint and he was gracious enough to state simply that Miles preferred to go in a different direction while he (Sam) was happy to hook up with Andrew Hill following the Japan tour.