Jim R Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the info, TTK. Hard to believe you didn't hang onto this (if only for the cover! ) I still don't get the general lack of enthusiasm around here (I mean overall on the board) for The Mastersounds. To me, they chose good material, and swung like crazy. I think Buddy was an underrated player. I don't think history has been too kind to them. When I did a blog search for them, they were outnumbered by about 100 to 1 by links to recordings by "The New Mastersounds". I've been continuing to upgrade my recordings. Just noticed that "The King & I", "In Concert", and "Ballads and Blues" are all available in iTunes for $6 each. I took the plunge, as they all have excellent audio quality. Since the latter two have never been out on CD, I'm not sure how this works (clean transfers available in iTunes, that is). At any rate, I would recommend any of them. I also noticed that the two-on-one CD reissue of "The King & I" and "Kismet" is also availble, but only in the iTunes store in Ireland... Edited June 26, 2011 by Jim R Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Thanks for the info, TTK. Hard to believe you didn't hang onto this (if only for the cover! ) I had the cheesy 60s reissue cover. Oh, I would have kept that one, for sure! The album was good but not great enough to hold my attention. I can't keep every record. I'm sure I'd like some of the others. Quote
Jim R Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 Ah, okay, that explains it. That's not even that good of a scan, by the way. Believe me, she- er, I mean it... the cover, looks even better in person. Come to think of it, I think I need to hang that baby up on the wall one of these days. Forgive me for getting a little trivial here, but maybe somebody will find this interesting and/or of value. I just bought "The King And I" from iTunes, and one of the first things I noticed was that the entire recording was roughly 41 1/2 minutes long, as compared to 35 1/2 for the LP rip that I had previously in my library. In addition to a couple of the medleys being packaged together differently, I noticed that the tune "Epilogue" (which is a suite of sorts, including Buddy's composition "Lois Ann") is 9:52 in length, vs 8:28 for the LP rip version. The extra length is accounted for by a lovely extended intro (about 1 1/2 minutes long) on the version I bought in iTunes. To me, this is a complete "puzzlement" (pun intended). I know that the album was released on a CD (along with "Kismet") by the El Records label, which I've just gotten hip to. I know nothing about who may have engineered this digital transfer. Anyway, I'm happy to have the album with an extra 6 minutes of material. Quote
mikeweil Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 I know that the album was released on a CD (along with "Kismet") by the El Records label, which I've just gotten hip to. I know nothing about who may have engineered this digital transfer. Anyway, I'm happy to have the album with an extra 6 minutes of material. You mean this one? Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted June 26, 2011 Report Posted June 26, 2011 That was the horrible cover of the Kismet album I unloaded. Quote
Jim R Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I know that the album was released on a CD (along with "Kismet") by the El Records label, which I've just gotten hip to. I know nothing about who may have engineered this digital transfer. Anyway, I'm happy to have the album with an extra 6 minutes of material. You mean this one? Yeah, I guess El Records is a branch of Cherry Red Records (UK), which I had also never heard of until today. When I saw this rare item on their homepage, I knew this must be a pretty hip operation. Anybody bought from them? Quote
JSngry Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 That cover was put out by Pacific Jazz too. Part of their "Jazz Milestones" series. Quote
Jim R Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I've been continuing to upgrade my recordings. Just noticed that "The King & I", "In Concert", and "Ballads and Blues" are all available in iTunes for $6 each. I took the plunge, as they all have excellent audio quality. Since the latter two have never been out on CD, I'm not sure how this works (clean transfers available in iTunes, that is). At any rate, I would recommend any of them. I also noticed that the two-on-one CD reissue of "The King & I" and "Kismet" is also availble, but only in the iTunes store in Ireland... Oops, I'm realizing now that I mis-spoke about "In Concert" and "Ballads and Blues" never having been out on CD. I sort of doubted it as I was typing it. Somebody may have already told me about this in a previous thread, but I was reminded today during a search that these two were released as a 3-on-2 on Fresh Sound along with "The Mastersounds Play Horace Silver". I need to grab that... Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 Yeah, I guess El Records is a branch of Cherry Red Records (UK), which I had also never heard of until today. When I saw this rare item on their homepage, I knew this must be a pretty hip operation. Anybody bought from them? Not only have I bought from them, but I also assisted them on some of their reissues. They put out a great range of oddball stuff that most labels wouldn't bother to reissue. Quote
Jim R Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I haven't listened to the entire P.P. album yet, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all of the songs recorded by the Mastersounds (and I still have no idea about the origins of "The Kick" or "Misty") were overdubbed from the original versions. Seems clear now that those two were the only "all new" tracks on P.P. TTK (or anybody else who may know), I'm just curious if the album credits indicate who was playing vibes and piano on those two tracks. Was Holland also a vibist? "The Kick" is primarily about the percussion, but there is more skill exhibited on "Misty" in terms of the vibes and piano. Quote
JSngry Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) That cover was put out by Pacific Jazz too. Part of their "Jazz Milestones" series. Yeah, ST-20130. Hhere's the cover with a PJ logo, upper left: Back cover here: http://t0.gstatic.co...TpQ&t=1 Edited June 28, 2011 by JSngry Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) I haven't listened to the entire P.P. album yet, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all of the songs recorded by the Mastersounds (and I still have no idea about the origins of "The Kick" or "Misty") were overdubbed from the original versions. Seems clear now that those two were the only "all new" tracks on P.P. TTK (or anybody else who may know), I'm just curious if the album credits indicate who was playing vibes and piano on those two tracks. Was Holland also a vibist? "The Kick" is primarily about the percussion, but there is more skill exhibited on "Misty" in terms of the vibes and piano. There is no other vibes player credited on either issue of the LP. Additionally, vibes is not listed among the (many) percussion instruments played by Holland and Harte, so I think it is safe to assume that those two tracks are by the Mastersounds. As both issues make a point of listing the other musicians, it's likely that they would have listed the players on those two tracks if they were different, but you never know. Incidentally, it's great when these kinds of conversations happen here! This is what I call responsible use of the the interwebz! Edited June 27, 2011 by Teasing the Korean Quote
Jim R Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I haven't listened to the entire P.P. album yet, but I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that all of the songs recorded by the Mastersounds (and I still have no idea about the origins of "The Kick" or "Misty") were overdubbed from the original versions. Seems clear now that those two were the only "all new" tracks on P.P. TTK (or anybody else who may know), I'm just curious if the album credits indicate who was playing vibes and piano on those two tracks. Was Holland also a vibist? "The Kick" is primarily about the percussion, but there is more skill exhibited on "Misty" in terms of the vibes and piano. There is no other vibes player credited on either issue of the LP. Additionally, vibes is not listed among the (many) percussion instruments played by Holland and Harte, so I think it is safe to assume that those two tracks are by the Mastersounds. As both issues make a point of listing the other musicians, it's likely that they would have listed the players on those two tracks if they were different, but you never know. You mean as overdubbed Mastersounds recordings also? From what I know right now, I tend to doubt that. I have all or nearly all of the Mastersounds recordings, and there's no recording of "Misty" in their discography, that I'm aware of at least. But like I said before, I'm still wondering if there are unreleased tracks that might be found in a major jazz discography such as Lord, etc. "The Kick" is so short that I'd imagine it could have been a snippet from another recording with a different title, if in fact it was overdubbed. If that's the case, it might be hard to figure out what that other recording was. I know that there are a few Mastersounds tracks that appeared on W.P. various artists LP's... I don't own any of those anymore, but perhaps one of those tracks could have been used (neither "The Kick" nor "Misty" appear as Mastersounds recordings in the online W.P. discography I'm familiar with, btw: W.P. discography ) If those two tracks were not overdubbed like the others, it seems unlikely to me that the Mastersounds would have been involved. As I understand it, P.P. was done in 1961, three years after the Mastersounds recordings that were used for the overdubs. The Mastersounds had disbanded as a performing group in 1959, although they reunited in '60 for their Fantasy recordings. At any rate, if Harte and Holland got together with the Mastersounds to record those two tracks, why would they have done the other six tunes as overdubs? Not saying it isn't possible, just seems a little unlikely to me. Just my $.02. And I love a good mystery like this... Quote
Teasing the Korean Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I have no idea beyond what my ears and the liner notes tell me. Is it possible that the Mastersounds recorded two tunes with Harte and Holland? That gave H&H a brilliant idea, and they ran with it, using previously recorded selections? Quote
Chuck Nessa Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 I would guess all "brilliant ideas" at PJ came from Bock. Quote
Bill Nelson Posted June 27, 2011 Report Posted June 27, 2011 And Dick Bock is well-known for slicing and dicing, subbing and dubbing -- -- much to the ire and immense frustration of collectors and discographers everywhere. Quote
JSngry Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 (edited) Contrast & compare: Edited June 28, 2011 by JSngry Quote
Jim R Posted June 28, 2011 Report Posted June 28, 2011 Contrast & compare: Somehow, I don't think Roy Harte and Milt Holland would have gotten away with overdubbing on Buddy Rich. Quote
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