2008-2009 Hot Stove Thread

[papsrus]

The "World Fucking Champions" open the 2009 MLB regular season on April 5 vs. the Braves.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb

Wish baseball would forget about this World Championship bs in March and open the season earlier, gosh, the season almost went into November! What a waste of time. I'm already looking forward to new season -- football stinks.

I feel the same way. I used to love football. Just can't get into the pro game at all anymore. College a little bit, but not nearly as much as I used to.

Pitchers and catchers will be reporting before you know it!!

(except, not here anymore ... ... that's going to be weird.)

[Matthew]

Tim Lincecum wins the National League Cy Young Award. Only bright spot for the Giants all year.

[Patrick]

Longtime Indians broadcaster (and pitching ace once upon a time) Herb Score has passed at the age of 75.

RIP

[tkeith]

The "World Fucking Champions" open the 2009 MLB regular season on April 5 vs. the Braves.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...sp&c_id=mlb

Wish baseball would forget about this World Championship bs in March and open the season earlier, gosh, the season almost went into November! What a waste of time. I'm already looking forward to new season -- football stinks.

I feel the same way. I used to love football. Just can't get into the pro game at all anymore. College a little bit, but not nearly as much as I used to.

Pitchers and catchers will be reporting before you know it!!

(except, not here anymore ... ... that's going to be weird.)

Football has been awesome here in recent vintage, though truly, I'm a baseball guy at heart (and hockey, but that's tough to admit when the Bruins continue to be so damned marginal). This year, though, minus god at QB, I haven't been able to get into football... at all. Even though it's a great time to be on the Celtic bandwagon, I just can't stomach thugball. What the hell happened to the NBA? Give me the WNBA any day; they still play basketball.

[Chuck Nessa]

Don't mean to derail anything but Preacher Roe died. He was a hero from my pre-teen years.

Back to your normal programming.

[Brad]

Don't mean to derail anything but Preacher Roe died. He was a hero from my pre-teen years.

Back to your normal programming.

He was a great one indeed. In today's Times for those who may not have known of him:

****

Preacher Roe, the folksy left-hander from the Ozarks who became a star pitcher for the Brooklyn Dodgers, featuring superb control and a spitball he belatedly confessed to throwing, died Sunday in West Plains, Mo. He was 92.

The cause was complications of colon cancer, his son Thomas said.

In the late 1940s and early 50s, when the Dodgers teams that became known as the Boys of Summer largely dominated the National League, Roe emerged as one of baseball’s leading pitchers.

Roe led the league in winning percentage in 1949, when he was 15-6 for a mark of .714, and in 1951, when he was 22-3 for .880. He won 44 games and lost only 8 between 1951 and 1953. He pitched for three Dodger pennant winners and was an All-Star every season from 1949 to 1952.

“The Preach was a master of his craft,” Carl Erskine, who teamed with Roe and Don Newcombe as the top starting pitchers for the Dodgers in the decade after World War II, once told the columnist Arthur Daley of The New York Times. “He was a smart control pitcher with a phenomenal sense of timing.”

“I try to keep the hitters off balance, never giving them a decent pitch,” Roe said. “I’m always aiming for the corners, never throwing the same pitch twice or what the hitter is expecting.”

It was in the summer of 1955, a year after he retired, that Roe admitted to throwing spitters, describing his technique in an article in Sports Illustrated, “The Outlawed Spitball Was My Money Pitch.” Roe told of wiping his left hand across his brow and spitting on his thumb with juice from his bubble gum, using the base of his hand as a shield. While ostensibly hitching his belt, he then transferred moisture to his index and middle fingers, gripped the baseball on a smooth spot and threw with a fastball motion, getting a sharp downward break.

Roe received $2,000 for the article, but said he did not do it for the money. He maintained that he hoped to see the spitter legalized and wanted to relate how it was not necessarily a dangerous, hard-to-control delivery.

“It never bothered me none throwing a spitter,” he said. “If no one is going to help the pitcher in this game, he’s got to help himself.”

Elwin Charles Roe was born on Feb. 26, 1916, in Ash Flat, Ark., and grew up in Viola, Ark., population 160. As Roe told it to Cynthia J. Wilber in “The Love of the Game” (Morrow, 1992), he gained his nickname at age 3. When an uncle who had never seen the boy before asked him his name, he replied “preacher” because he was fond of a Methodist minister and his wife who took him on horse-and-buggy rides.

Roe’s spindly 6-foot-2, 170-pound frame, his sharp facial features and his penchant for telling stories in backcountry tones suggested he was something of a hillbilly. But he was a college man — having graduated from Harding College in Searcy, Ark.

Roe was signed by the St. Louis Cardinals in 1938. He pitched in only one game that season, then spent five years in the minors before being traded to the Pirates.

Relying on his fastball, he won 13 games for Pittsburgh in 1944 and 14 in 1945 with a league-leading 148 strikeouts. But after the ’45 season, Roe sustained a fractured skull in a fight with a referee while coaching high school basketball.

After Roe had a 4-15 record in 1947, Branch Rickey, the Dodgers’ general manager, who had run the Cardinals when Roe pitched for them, got him back in one of his shrewdest trades. Roe came from the Pirates with Billy Cox, a brilliant-fielding third baseman, for outfielder Dixie Walker, who was near the end of his career, and pitchers Hal Gregg and Vic Lombardi.

Healthy once more, and mastering the craft of pitching — and the spitter — Roe had six straight winning seasons with the Dodgers, including a 19-11 mark in 1950 and his 22-3 record in 1951.

He beat the Yankees and Vic Raschi, 1-0, in Game 2 of 1949 World Series and beat the Yanks and Ed Lopat with a complete game in Game 3 of the 1952 Series, but lost to the Yankees and Lopat in the 1953 Series. Each time, the Dodgers lost the Series.

After going 3-4 for the Dodgers in 1954, Roe was sent to the Baltimore Orioles together with Cox. But he retired instead, having compiled a record of 127-84 over 12 seasons. After leaving baseball, he operated a grocery store in West Plains with his wife, Mozee, who died in 2002.

In addition to his son Thomas, of West Plains, he is survived by his son Elwin Jr., of Pineville, Mo., 8 grandchildren and 11 great-grandchildren.

Although Roe achieved notice for a spitball, he had a variation that was perfectly legal — his fake spitball. One time, pitching against the Boston Braves’ Jim Russell, Roe went to his cap repeatedly. Each time Roe did that, Russell stepped out of the batter’s box. After this went on three or four times, Roe threw the ball. As he recalled it to Roger Kahn in “The Boys of Summer” (Harper & Row, 1971): “He’s waiting for that good hard drop. I touch the visor and throw a big slow curve. He was so wound up he couldn’t swing. But he spit at the ball as it went by.”

[paul secor]

Read his obit yesterday. I started following baseball in 1955, and had no idea that he had such outstanding seasons with the Dodgers. Also didn't know that he was a college graduate.

[Dan Gould]

Major news out of New York - the Yankees have traded some utterly unimportant flotsam and jetsam for Nick Swisher, with the intent of playing him every day at 1B, which apparently takes the Yankees out of the Teixeira sweepstakes. That's a big shocker, and of course Cashman won't "rule anything out" but it makes a lot of sense in a number of ways:

Swisher is signed, iirc, for three years. That leaves 1B open for Jeter and/or Posada in the future. Seven years to Teixeira takes 1B out of the mix for their future geriatric former stars.

The Yankees need pitching first and may be counting on some bounce back years from Posada, Cano, Jeter and to a lesser extent, A-Rod. So they may be more inclined to make sure that they get their top two (could it be three?) pitching targets in hand ahead of anything else. Maybe they are even balking at the possibility of paying $300 million for the top two available players?

Cashman was also quoted as saying that Swisher would play CF only in an emergency but that he provides "plus" defense at the corners (I don't see it, but if he says so). So that means that if the Yankees still paid big bucks to get Teixeira, they'd have to trade a corner infielder to give Swisher a spot. I guess Nady has some value but would Damon would get much?

Bottom line, this is great news if you're hoping the Red Sox will make a big play for Teix. They might even have a relatively clear shot if the Angels live up to their reputation as a team that won't be left hanging; they'll make a fair offer and if its not accepted, they'll move on. Since when has Boras accepted an offer without dragging things out and inventing "mystery teams" that are in the mix?

I'll be one happy camper if we land Teixeira and then move Mikey once he proves that he's healthy again.

[Brad]

I was listening to WFAN today and it was mentioned in passing that Angels had offered Teixera $20 million per.

[Chalupa]

Major news out of New York - the Yankees have traded some utterly unimportant flotsam and jetsam for Nick Swisher, with the intent of playing him every day at 1B, which apparently takes the Yankees out of the Teixeira sweepstakes. That's a big shocker, and of course Cashman won't "rule anything out" but it makes a lot of sense in a number of ways:

Swisher is signed, iirc, for three years. That leaves 1B open for Jeter and/or Posada in the future. Seven years to Teixeira takes 1B out of the mix for their future geriatric former stars.

The Yankees need pitching first and may be counting on some bounce back years from Posada, Cano, Jeter and to a lesser extent, A-Rod. So they may be more inclined to make sure that they get their top two (could it be three?) pitching targets in hand ahead of anything else. Maybe they are even balking at the possibility of paying $300 million for the top two available players?

Cashman was also quoted as saying that Swisher would play CF only in an emergency but that he provides "plus" defense at the corners (I don't see it, but if he says so). So that means that if the Yankees still paid big bucks to get Teixeira, they'd have to trade a corner infielder to give Swisher a spot. I guess Nady has some value but would Damon would get much?

Bottom line, this is great news if you're hoping the Red Sox will make a big play for Teix. They might even have a relatively clear shot if the Angels live up to their reputation as a team that won't be left hanging; they'll make a fair offer and if its not accepted, they'll move on. Since when has Boras accepted an offer without dragging things out and inventing "mystery teams" that are in the mix?

I'll be one happy camper if we land Teixeira and then move Mikey once he proves that he's healthy again.

From espn.com....

The New York Yankees acquired center fielder-first baseman Nick Swisher in a trade with the Chicago White Sox on Thursday.

Not even average

Nick Swisher in 2008 had the worst batting average among players with at least 502 plate appearances, the number needed to qualify for the batting title.

From the bottom up

Nick Swisher, White Sox .219

Daric Barton, A's .226

Michael Bourn, Astros .229

Jack Cust, A's .231

Mark Ellis, A's .233

Rickie Weeks, Brewers .234

Kevin Millar, Orioles .234

[Dan Gould]

The thing is that Swisher has never hit for a decent average. But he has been a good OBP man, and with some pop, which should only improve when batting lefty at the Stadium. He's really like a replacement Giambi, but nowhere near the dangerous bat Giambi had when he first signed, but on the other hand, he isn't a butcher at first base.

I just hope they don't break the bank for Teixeira anyway and move Damon or Nady or Matsui. Swisher/Teixeira would be a big upgrade over Damon-Nady-Matsui/Giambi.

[Quincy]

Any rumors about Adam Dunn? His consistency is forehead slapping amazing as he's hit exactly 40 HR 4 years in a row. Sure he strikes out a ton and isn't good in the field at 1st or LF (though he can make errors at both!), but he gets on base, HRs and hits lefty. You'd think he would be a Yankee option at few million bucks cheaper than Manny or Teix with the "savings" could go towards more pitching. The only news I've seen on Dunn is that the Washington Nationals are interested. That's kind of like being told the ugly smelly girl wants to go to prom with you.

I think it will be very interesting to see what sort of money gets thrown around at players given the economy. Hard to tell if Swisher is a frugal attempt at getting at starter and hoping the percentages (he's 28 thus in his prime years, he can hit lefty) work or if it's building bench depth.

[Dan Gould]

I can't see Swisher as bench depth, at 22 million over three years. That's really expensive for depth. What I think could happen though is that they'll go for Teix and then deal Nady or perhaps Matsui. And yet Cashman called it "fantasy land" to think that the Yanks would sign the top two free agents, given the expected cost at the top of the food chain.

As for Dunn, I can never make up my mind about him. I like the OBP and home run production, but could I stand the number of strikeouts and shitty BA? He delivers runs, but he also takes a right turn at 1B or the plate awfully regularly. Add in the atrocious defense, its harder to judge his true value. How many runs does he create when he gives so many back on defense? Let him go out with the smelly ugly girl.

[BERIGAN]

Well, the story is the Peavy to braves trade is officially off, according to the Braves GM Frank Wren. I think the Padres have tried too hard to get one more piece from the Braves.

No way were the Braves going to trade them Tommy Hanson, (the oldest guy from Hanson ) who somehow has gone from a 22nd round pick , to the best arm the braves have developed in probably 15 + years...What is strange is no other team besides the cubs have made much of an offer for him. He is one of the best pitchers in baseball right now...Like Santana, teams still won't give up the farm for a #1, which is a bit funny.

I think Peavy's arm is just waiting to blow up, so not too sorry to see the deal fall apart....watch it all come together tomorrow.

[Johnny E]

I'm already looking forward to new season -- football stinks.

Hear hear!!!

[Chalupa]

Well I guess everyone knew the Yankees were gonna hitch up the money truck for Sabathia but now Hank Steinbrenner is saying they are going to go after Burnett and Lowe too. Cripes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3703112

[Dan Gould]

From Gammons' Blog:

The Rangers are setting a high bar for any of their catchers in a trade. The Tigers found the asking price on Gerald Laird too high, and Boston wouldn't part with either Clay Buchholz or two out of the Justin Masterson/Nick Hagadone/Michael Bowden trio for Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

I for one am glad that Theo isn't biting on that kind of demand. Yeah I'd like to get a good young catcher, but not at that cost. While I don't want Pudge, I could see Benjie Molina as a fair alternative. The Giants have a lot of holes so it should be easier to get a deal done, and Molina brings excellent D and a little pop in his bat. He'd be fine as a stop-gap if Tek goes elsewhere and the Rangers demands don't come down. Then they can see how Kottaras and the other catching prospects develop.

[Matthew]

From Gammons' Blog:

The Rangers are setting a high bar for any of their catchers in a trade. The Tigers found the asking price on Gerald Laird too high, and Boston wouldn't part with either Clay Buchholz or two out of the Justin Masterson/Nick Hagadone/Michael Bowden trio for Jarrod Saltalamacchia.

I for one am glad that Theo isn't biting on that kind of demand. Yeah I'd like to get a good young catcher, but not at that cost. While I don't want Pudge, I could see Benjie Molina as a fair alternative. The Giants have a lot of holes so it should be easier to get a deal done, and Molina brings excellent D and a little pop in his bat. He'd be fine as a stop-gap if Tek goes elsewhere and the Rangers demands don't come down. Then they can see how Kottaras and the other catching prospects develop.

Have to agree with you on this one; Benji would be a very good one-year guy for the Red Sox, plus, he's supposed to be a good clubhouse guy also. I'm als very interested in the Manny saga, it would be nice if he re-signed with the Dodgers, but I still think the Blue can take the West without him, and I also think that there's a chance that CC winds up in Chevez Ravine in a long term deal.

[Dan Gould]

Sox have traded Coco Crisp to KC for their setup man

Ramirez is an interesting acquisition for the Red Sox -- his arrival would suggest that the ball club is at least considering using Justin Masterson as a starter. Reports say the 27-year-old throws in the low 90s, with an outstanding curveball and a changeup that acts like a splitter. He's coming off a very good 2008 season, having posted a 2.64 ERA in 71.2 innings this year while striking out 70. He allowed just two home runs.

Not sure if this is the best that Coco could have gotten, as he definitely re-established some value last season, but it sounds like this guy is someone who might allow them to keep Masterson in the rotation. He might also be the reliever they thought they had with Craig Hansen before they dumped that bum on the Pirates in the Manny-Bay trade. One thing is for sure - if he ends up with Timlin's spot in the bullpen, that's a gigantic upgrade.

Now the interesting question is whether Jacoby is truly ready for full time, no one else on the roster who thinks he should be the starter, duty in CF? And, related, who becomes the fourth outfielder? There's talk of Baldelli returning to New England, I think he has big upside but his mitochondrial disorder is a huge "buyer beware" sign. But maybe you maximize his current value with regular spot starts, and he'd certainly be a dangerous bat off the bench.

[Chalupa]

Oh shit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3715241

[Tom in RI]

Dan, I'd love to see RI native Rocco Baldelli with the Red Sox, but, while I think he'd be fine as a 4th out fielder, he clearly couldn't step in on an everyday basis when (not if) JD Drew needs a few weeks off. Then they would have to bring someone up or get a body in trade. As far as Coco Crisp, he never lived up to the promise but he really wasn't cut out for leadoff either. I will say that of all the Sox outfielders I've seen since the 60's he was the most breath taking, although he has no arm.

Can John Farrell help Dontrelle Willis if the Tigers trade him for Lugo?

[tkeith]

Dan, I'd love to see RI native Rocco Baldelli with the Red Sox, but, while I think he'd be fine as a 4th out fielder, he clearly couldn't step in on an everyday basis when (not if) JD Drew needs a few weeks off. Then they would have to bring someone up or get a body in trade. As far as Coco Crisp, he never lived up to the promise but he really wasn't cut out for leadoff either. I will say that of all the Sox outfielders I've seen since the 60's he was the most breath taking, although he has no arm.

Can John Farrell help Dontrelle Willis if the Tigers trade him for Lugo?

Who cares? If he can't, make him your fourth OF!

I'd love to see somebody make him a two-way player.

[Dan Gould]

Good point, Tom. You really can't expect Baldelli to step in for any extended period. Two or three starts a week when there's a tough lefty is all you can do, and with Drew on the roster I don't see how you can go into the season with him as your backup.

Looks like Gabe Kapler III.

[zen archer]

Dan ,have you heard any rumors about the Sox redesigning the B on their Cap ?

[Dan Gould]

Dan ,have you heard any rumors about the Sox redesigning the B on their Cap ?

First I've heard of it.