Has Anybody Here Ever Danced The Madison?

[7/4]

Oh I see...those diagrams help.

The Madison ain't got nothin' on the G-Spot Tornado.

dB

[seeline]

I think most of the calls are pretty corny... I've never heard calls for a line dance.

Edited November 11, 2008 by seeline

[JSngry]

Corny? Compared to what?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

How the Madison and the Twist “Crossed Over”: http://wallofsound.wordpress.com/2007/10/0...t-crossed-over/

An excerpt:

The origins of the Madison in black culture, though, go back well before the recording of Bryant’s record in March 1959 in New York. Dance historian Lance Benishek suggests that the Madison started in Chicago in the late 1950s; Pruter indicates the dance was associated in the midwest with a completely different recording. Benishek also claims that it was danced in Cleveland after the Baltimore Colts brought it to Baltimore in 1959. Bryant’s record was clearly adopted for a pre-existing dance within black youth culture, and then picked up within the black entertainment world. This also explains how a hard bop instrumental became a black teen dance record with a vocal, and the reasons it gained novelty status in white teenage culture. Sometime between Bryant’s recording and its play on The Buddy Deane Show, a spoken narration was over-dubbed. This narration was provided by radio DJ Eddie Morrison, whose early 1960s afternoon show on WEBB Baltimore mixed jazz and R&B records with slick raps.

Like most radio DJs of the time Morrison would have also hosted record hops where he would have picked up on the popularity of Bryant’s record and seen how young dancers developed dance moves to fit. He could have easily started calling some of the dance actions executed at these hops on his show. The pace and funk swing of “Madison Time” is certainly ideal for Morrison’s DJ style, which was characteristic of black radio talk of the 1960s. For black dancers it asserted a common culture; to white teenagers his adjectives “wild,” “crazy,” “looking good,” and the abstract verb “hit it” would be as exotic as the musical sounds. Morrison’s lyrics also reference the contemporary television westerns, variety shows, and spectator sports, which were common cultural reference for both black and white teenagers. These cultural resonances were clearly understood in the wider entertainment world because sometime in 1960 Bryant’s recording was licensed by Columbia and, with added talk over, was released as a single aimed at white teenagers. The novelty of the dance and the record, and its local popularity, brought it to the attention of the producers of The Buddy Deane Show and then to other such dance shows across the country. Thus, it reached a broader range of local white dancers.

I never knew that Eddie Morrison's calls were overdubs before.

I never heard that Bryant recorded "The Madison" for some other label, from which Columbia licensed it. Which label? Bob Thiele's Signature, for whom he recorded the original hit version of "Little Suzie"? I haven't seen this in a discography. Mike Fitzgerald's Jazz Discography indicates it was recorded for Columbia in March 1959.

Ray Bryant Sextet

Harry "Sweets" Edison (tp) Urbie Green (tb) Buddy Tate (ts) Ray Bryant (p) Tommy Bryant (b) Billy English (d)

NYC, March 16, 1959

CO64398 Madison Time, I Columbia CL 1476

CO64399 Madison Time, II -

* Ray Bryant - Madison Time (Columbia CL 1476)

It does make it clear that Morrison wasn't a participant in the session.

Perhaps the single, when it issued on whatever label, wasn't called "Madison time" but something else. But I'd have thought Mike would have known that and cross referenced it in some way. This bit of story looks a bit spurious to me at the moment.

MG

[seeline]

Corny? Compared to what?

I like it better without the calls.

Ever done a line dance yourself? (*Not* country-style, that is.) Part of it is that you and everybody else in the line just know the steps and do them. At least, that seems to be directly related to the coolness factor.

If someone is teaching, they'll sort of "call" the dance, and might also count off at the beginning, but that's pretty much it.

Edited November 11, 2008 by seeline

[seeline]

This is a soul line dance class, but see how the best dancers are closest to the camera.

Once everyone's got the steps, they just dance.

Edited to add - here's some rough footage of D.C.-area people doing The Stroll, which is one of the line dances that was popular in the late 50s and into the 60s:

Edited November 13, 2008 by seeline

[paul secor]

i graduated from high school in 1962. I was student council pres and was responsible for the music at the weekly "hops" in the school lunch room.

The Bryant version was on local radio and we did the dance. Never danced to another version or other tune.

Does that mean that Elmore James' "Madison Blues" was a flop in Chicago?

Elmore's "Madison Blues" is a better record than Ray Bryant's - never heard Al Brown's - but as to whether anyone danced to it - I have no idea.

[Tom Storer]

MG danced The Madison. Chuck Nessa danced The Madison.

These are gods amongst mens.

Tom Storer - did you as well also dance The Big Strong Madison or did you just go tru the motions to make your wife happy?

I can't say I danced the Madison with true conviction. No Olympus for me.

[JSngry]

Maybe not, but you get a Big Strong Right Thing for doing stuff like this with & for your wife!

[Stereojack]

Al Brown was a local Baltimore musician who had formed a jazz group known as the Tunetoppers in the late 50’s.

Was Big Al sears living in Baltimore at this time? Listening to this version, it sounds like a pick up group of top whack pro jazz musicians, not a bunch of local guys. The rhythm section in particular is so loose and groovy it just swings the hell out of the Bryant version, which is fairly strict tempo.

Maybe Brown DID form a band in Baltimore but it sounds like when they got to the New York studios, there were all these other guys who'd been assembled by a producer who knew what was what.

I did find a personnel listing for the Al Brown record:

June 1, 1960, NYC

Al Brown (vo), Rudy Powell (as), Al Sears (ts), Budd Johnson (bars), Bert Keyes (p), Everett Barksdale, George Barnes (g), unknown (b), Herbie Lovelle (d)

[Tom Storer]

Maybe not, but you get a Big Strong Right Thing for doing stuff like this with & for your wife!

Damn right I do! What's even better is that it was my idea. I knew she would love it. It was a birthday present. Two years of Thursday night sessions of "le rock" etc. etc. in a drafty gymnasium full of people of widely varying age and agility. (There was one old man, very elegantly dressed, who was a superb tango dancer. He came to the classes for company and would thrill all the women by expertly tangoing them around the room.) We're thinking we'll take it up again next year sometime. It's great exercise!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

Al Brown was a local Baltimore musician who had formed a jazz group known as the Tunetoppers in the late 50’s.

Was Big Al sears living in Baltimore at this time? Listening to this version, it sounds like a pick up group of top whack pro jazz musicians, not a bunch of local guys. The rhythm section in particular is so loose and groovy it just swings the hell out of the Bryant version, which is fairly strict tempo.

Maybe Brown DID form a band in Baltimore but it sounds like when they got to the New York studios, there were all these other guys who'd been assembled by a producer who knew what was what.

I did find a personnel listing for the Al Brown record:

June 1, 1960, NYC

Al Brown (vo), Rudy Powell (as), Al Sears (ts), Budd Johnson (bars), Bert Keyes (p), Everett Barksdale, George Barnes (g), unknown (b), Herbie Lovelle (d)

Thanks Jack; looks like I was right

Bert Keyes ! Wow, and he's wailing on side 2!

MG

PS

Hey! How did it get onto the Billboard R&B chart on 2 May, if it was recorded on 1 June?

[Stereojack]

Hey! How did it get onto the Billboard R&B chart on 2 May, if it was recorded on 1 June?

Hmmmm, obviously the date is wrong.

[Chuck Nessa]

Hey! How did it get onto the Billboard R&B chart on 2 May, if it was recorded on 1 June?

Hmmmm, obviously the date is wrong.

Never believe the charts - they are paid for, just like play lists.

[JSngry]

When I say "hit it", i want you to give be a Big Strong Payola, erase it, come out of it with a Dick Clark Smile, and then back to the Madison.

HIT IT!

[Chuck Nessa]

[Christiern]

Allow me to use this thread as an opportunity to kill rumors that I danced with Dolly Madison.

It never happened!

[Chuck Nessa]

Did she serve you cake?

[Tom Storer]

There's a guy over on that other message board who is a pro square dance caller in... California, I think. SquaredancecallingSteve, he calls himself. He puts together dances using a wide variety of music, from jazz to hiphop to blues to whatever else he can find. It sounds fascinating.

[Big Beat Steve]

I think most of the calls are pretty corny... I've never heard calls for a line dance.

Went to a local vinyl clearance sale today and among a huge stack of jazz LPs and EPs by sheer coincidence also I picked up a 45 with another instrumental version of "Madison Time" recorded by one "Eddy Williams" on the Philips label. The flipside has a track called "Madison Beat" with calls (with a typical dance school teacher's voice) in GERMAN! Boy, you ain't heard nothing corny about The Madison until you've heard THIS!! :excited:

[danasgoodstuff]

On a somewhat related (?) note: Supposedly some presidential comission once suggested that we change the national anthemto "Land of a 1,000 Dances"! Like the rest of the world doesn't hate us already, can you imagine at the Olympics, the US wins again and the crowd starts chanting "Nah, Na-na NA NAh..."?

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

On a somewhat related (?) note: Supposedly some presidential comission once suggested that we change the national anthemto "Land of a 1,000 Dances"! Like the rest of the world doesn't hate us already, can you imagine at the Olympics, the US wins again and the crowd starts chanting "Nah, Na-na NA NAh..."?

That would be WONDERFUL!!!! How better to express the reality that is the United States of America?

MG

[JSngry]

The Madison time PT 1 & 2 by the Ray Bryant combo played on a 1954 Seeburg jukebox:

Not nearly as sexy as it sounds...

[chewy-chew-chew-bean-benitez]

thats the worst dance ive ever encountered~!

[The Magnificent Goldberg]

You had to be there.

MG