king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 By the way, Mike, - off topic - speaking of players, saxophone players that is, who merged swing/thirties elements with bop and later influences, one musician who stands out in my book, and who, amazingly enough is still around and going very very strong, is Benny Golson. I am a huge fan of his playing, although I have only four or five of his records. Some solo, I think on the opening tune, on "Golson and the Philadelphians" (recently on BN CD, now OOP) always kills me again! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (edited) I really myself don't think there's a Getz influence. There's a Pres influence, a deep study of Pres and Bird, and there's a lot of Eddie himself. Edited January 23, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I really myself don't think there's a Getz influence. There's a Pres influence, a deep study of Pres and Bird, and there's a lot of Eddie himself. That was what I thought when I started this discussion, then it came to my mind that I read something somewhere about a Getz-influence (maybe it was that quote Mike posted, maybe somewhere else, I can't remember) - however, Getz or not Getz, Prez is there for sure! And what he makes out of it is COMPLETELY unique, I'd say, too. (And I did not start this discussion to diss EH in any way - I love his music ever since I first heard him, which must be 10 years back, very early in my jazz-trip, high school... and some funny remembrances, too.) ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I don't think it's unreasonable to cite a Getz influence in EH's tone, but as Chuck Nessa said in a different context, it would be easy to make too much of that. I don't think it's a case of Eddie having said, "I like Stan Getz' tone. I want to get one just like it" as much as it is a case of him having said, "I like this cat's tone. I can take the basic characteristics of it and make something entirely my own out of it", which is a different matter altogether. There's definitely some strong traces of Prez in the inflections EH uses, as well as some strong traces of Rollins in the way he phrases his lines on the earlier sides. But the guy was way too determined to be an original to settle for the "easy way" of direct copping of somebody else's stuff, be it tone, phrasing, or ANYTHING. Eddie Harris' was one of the most readily identifiable voices in jazz, no matter what the context was. I think he was one of those "scientific" guys in a way, one of those cats who enjoyed taking things apart and putting them back together in a new way. All of his explorations with electronics, the reed trumpet, singing through his horn, all that stuff, bears this out to me, as does his sometimes absolutely INSANE intervallic licks(I've got one of his method books, and a wackier bunch of stuff to practice you'll never find), and his altissimo (extreme high-register) work - everybody else uses those notes to be loud and assertive, but EH used them to sigh and caress. It takes a "scientific" mind to dissect a technique like that and come up with an entirely different use for it. But unlike some "scientists", he never, EVER, lost that funky "street" feel, never let the science overwhelm the heart, and that's why I love him, even if he made some really, REALLY "questionable" choices as far as records go (imo - although, as he said in one of his album titles, he needed some money!). But then again, if he had shied away from those type things, he wouldn't have been Eddie Harris, so this is a case where blatant commercialism is every bit as "real" as the alternative. Artist, scientist, entertainer, XXX-rated comedian (will this EVER be reissued?), and panderer. You get them all in Eddie Harris, and in equal measure, and in contexts where you'd expect one thing and get the other. Far from a "simple" individual, and far from "simple" music, all things considered. If ever a player was deserving to be thought of in terms of "subtext" and "layers of meaning", it's Eddie Harris, and if ever a player was able to make all that intellectual crap be at once fully relevant and totally irrelevant at the same time, it was also Eddie Harris. Gotta love him. GOT to love him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted January 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Wow, Jim, thanks for that great "evaluatory" post on EH! Really enjoyed reading, and totally agree with what you said! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 In a way I have always seen another Roland Kirk in him, if that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Wow, Jim, thanks for that great "evaluatory" post on EH! Really enjoyed reading, and totally agree with what you said! ubu Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Gotta love him. GOT to love him! Yeah! (You did it again, Jim!) Well said! I'll always love him, too, and I'm so glad I saw him live sitting in the front row of a very small club. I could smell ........ anyway, he was a true original, and he recorded enough "serious" jazz for anyone, IMO. We shared some laughs on that "comedy" album, I'll have to visit you some day if only to get some of it explained ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 ... I'm so glad I saw him live sitting in the front row of a very small club. I could smell ........ socks? thanks Mike, that was real... erm... expressive writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 We shared some laughs on that "comedy" album, I'll have to visit you some day if only to get some of it explained ! Be careful what you ask for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (will this EVER be reissued?) I'd rather see some complete club dates reissued, including the X-rated talking, if Atlantic still has the tapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 ... I'm so glad I saw him live sitting in the front row of a very small club. I could smell ........ socks? thanks Mike, that was real... erm... expressive writing. Just kidding! There was nothing (bad) to be smelled, but I wanted to give an impression how close I was. I had better stayed away, 'cause he was still sufferin' from a bad cold he had caught in the Netherlands the days before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 In a way I have always seen another Roland Kirk in him, if that makes sense. John, I think I understand what you wanna say, they have some things in common, including the same producer and record label for a period, but I see some fundamental difference: Where Eddie was willing and able to have fun even with the deepest roots of his heritage, Rahsaan was always trying to make sure everyone got his due credit for his achievements - Eddie didn't give a damn. He did his thing. Rahsaan was sufferin', for long periods of his life, and made it a theme of some of his music. Eddie made fun even of his sufferin, the look into the mirror who never would have stepped into the trap of taking life too seriously. Rahsaan was taken all of this very seriously, fighting for the recognition of his musical predecessors and peers, and his people, for all of his life. And if you fight, you get some blows in return. They're part of the same generation, for sure. I hope you get the idea of what I wanna say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Here is a question that I have thought about during my investigation of Mr. Harris. Does anyone else think there is a parallel between Eddie Harris and Rahsaan Roland Kirk? It’s a little difficult for me to articulate, but while listening to a lot of Harris' music recently, Kirk kept coming to mind. No, their music does not sound alike, but I think there are similarities between the two. It probably has more to do with the evolution of their careers. Both, IMO had incredible technical abilities that were either ignored, taken for granted or simply not acknowledged by the majority of listeners. I think to an extent this may have been caused by the fact that both had periods where they did not play stereotypical straight-ahead music. It also may be because Kirk's simultaneous playing of multiple instruments and Harris' use of electric sax and other non traditional instruments distracted some from the true substance of their talent. I don't know. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 In my opinion, Mike's post sums this up in a good way. I don't see a parallel, but I guess I see why you could think of one. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 (edited) Very interesting Couw and R, and I don't at all disagree with the comparison or the suggested reasons. Both Kirk and Harris had an understanding and a fluent technical knowledge of almost the entire jazz tradition and contemporary popular music. This set them apart from quite a few of their cohorts, and moved their music off onto tributaries of the mainstream. It's a strength for their art, and probably an aspect that weakened their critical acceptance. Both were monster players! I enjoy the work of both men immensely! Edited February 11, 2004 by jazzbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Oops. Sorry guys, I forgot the Harris/Kirk topic had been previously discussed before I posted my inquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
couw Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 thanks for bringing it up anyhow. Jazzbo's remarks were worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Oops. Sorry guys, I forgot the Harris/Kirk topic had been previously discussed before I posted my inquiry. No problem! Makes it even more interesting, that you come to have the same thought without being aware of it having been disussed before. Lon's statements makes sense, too - while it does not exclude what Mike said. I will have to keep this parallel (or the question if I can hear it) in mind when I listen to Eddie or Rahsaan the next time. By the way, another recording with Eddie I really like is the Blue Note disc he made with John Scofield! Some beautiful stuff there, and with Larry Goldings also on hand, groove's for sure! ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 By the way, another recording with Eddie I really like is the Blue Note disc he made with John Scofield! Some beautiful stuff there, and with Larry Goldings also on hand, groove's for sure! I purchased the disc when it first came out and went back and listened to it again when I started to check out Harris. Great stuff for sure. Harris sounds great on this disc as well as on a couple of radio broadcasts I have heard from this group's tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 I missed that one, having probably burned out on enthusiasm for Sco by then. What was the name of the release with Scofield and Harris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relyles Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 I missed that one, having probably burned out on enthusiasm for Sco by then. What was the name of the release with Scofield and Harris? Hand Jive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted February 11, 2004 Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Thanks. I now know what I missed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ubu Posted February 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2004 Hand Jive: AMG It's a pretty relaxed blowing affair, but there's some beautiful playing by all involved. ubu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeweil Posted September 16, 2017 Report Share Posted September 16, 2017 (edited) Was looking for thread about Eddie (Who?) and found this one while spinning a CD reissue of two of his VeeJay LPs, and this here amazes me: The way he jazzes up all these Henry Mancini tunes is great. As I have already stated here, I love his music, and in a way he still is underrated. Edited September 16, 2017 by mikeweil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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