Д.Д. Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just finished reading "You Never Give Me Your Money". Excellent read, although the story is quite depressing - more so than I though it would be. Well researched, excellently written, and refreshingly impartial, given the sensitivity and complexity of the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just finished reading "You Never Give Me Your Money". Excellent read, although the story is quite depressing - more so than I though it would be. Well researched, excellently written, and refreshingly impartial, given the sensitivity and complexity of the subject. I finished this a while ago myself and would agree 100% with your comments, especially the "quite depressing" one. It shows that they really started breaking up around MMT and it was basically a very slow, painful death. I think I mentioned it further up the thread that after you read this, none of them come out of it looking good, Paul in particular, he really does come across as a complete arsehole, the "McCartney Overide" and the whole McCartney/Lennon thing being the iceing and the cherry on that particular cake. I think that "Revolution in the Head" and "You Never Give Me Your Money" are probably the definitive works on the Fab Four, great "warts and all" pieces of work, although I haven't started reading "Shout" by Philip Norman yet, but it's supposed to be excellent. They make a great trio of Beatles books. :tup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Englewood Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) I "A/B"ed the mono and stereo versions of "Sgt. Pepper" this afternoon and I think, for a number of reasons, that the mono version sounds better. The biggest difference, of course, is "She's Leaving Home." As has been noted elsewhere, the mono version is faster than the stereo and is pitched higher. At first, it's a little disconcerting, but the ear prefers it after only a few listenings. In comparison, the stereo version now sounds draggy. It's obvious that the Beatles MEANT "She's Leaving Home" to be faster and higher in pitch. For whatever reason, the engineers didn't get the memo and forgot to apply the varispeed to the stereo mix. But the slower version is what we all know. Similarly, John's vocal on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" has been treated with a phasing effect on the mono version, but is "naked" on the stereo version. Again, once you hear the mono version, it sounds "right" and the stereo version sounds like a mistake. There are several other "little" differences (the laughter at the end of "Within You, Without You" is louder in the mono version, as is the crowd noise on "Sgt. Pepper Reprise." In fact, until I heard the mono version, I didn't really NOTICE the crowd noise on the stereo version!) but to me "Lucy" and "She's Leaving Home" are the most significant. To me, it's a matter of what the Beatles WANTED. The mono version is what they wanted the world to hear. For the last several decades, this is not what the world has heard. It's a shame that EMI elected to make the mono version so relatively hard for people to hear... I think it was mentioned earlier but I believe Lennon said something to the effect that if you haven't heard Peppers in Mono you haven't heard Peppers. Harrison said he only heard the Stereo version on the 70's and didn't like what he heard. I've said it before but I never really liked Pepper as a whole album before I heard the Mono version on the new re-issue, I liked some of the songs but the whole thing just seems to flow better in Mono. And "She's Leaving Home" is like a different song in Mono. However, if you're on a budget I think you can avoid "Let It Be", it really is the worst of the lot, when you read a few of the books mentioned in this thread and find out the circumstances under which it was recorded, it's not hard to see why. Edited October 22, 2009 by Cliff Englewood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Д.Д. Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Just finished reading "You Never Give Me Your Money". Excellent read, although the story is quite depressing - more so than I though it would be. Well researched, excellently written, and refreshingly impartial, given the sensitivity and complexity of the subject. I finished this a while ago myself and would agree 100% with your comments, especially the "quite depressing" one. It shows that they really started breaking up around MMT and it was basically a very slow, painful death. I think I mentioned it further up the thread that after you read this, none of them come out of it looking good, Paul in particular, he really does come across as a complete arsehole, the "McCartney Overide" and the whole McCartney/Lennon thing being the iceing and the cherry on that particular cake. I think that "Revolution in the Head" and "You Never Give Me Your Money" are probably the definitive works on the Fab Four, great "warts and all" pieces of work, although I haven't started reading "Shout" by Philip Norman yet, but it's supposed to be excellent. They make a great trio of Beatles books. :tup I didn't think any of them comes looking particularly "bad" except for Lennon. His behavior was the most selfish (or erratic, at least) and destructive. McCartney made it quite clear from the beginning that he wanted out of the Apple partnership if Klein was managing it, and his further actions were consistent with this position. There is no consistency in Lennon's actions (even less so in his words). The "McCartney override" was negotiated on behalf of McCartney / MPL alone and was not done to the detriment of the other Beatles. As for McCartney / Lennon, I am left with the impression that McCartney was the only one making a conscious effort to reconcile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETman Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I "A/B"ed the mono and stereo versions of "Sgt. Pepper" this afternoon and I think, for a number of reasons, that the mono version sounds better. The biggest difference, of course, is "She's Leaving Home." As has been noted elsewhere, the mono version is faster than the stereo and is pitched higher. At first, it's a little disconcerting, but the ear prefers it after only a few listenings. In comparison, the stereo version now sounds draggy. It's obvious that the Beatles MEANT "She's Leaving Home" to be faster and higher in pitch. For whatever reason, the engineers didn't get the memo and forgot to apply the varispeed to the stereo mix. But the slower version is what we all know. Similarly, John's vocal on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" has been treated with a phasing effect on the mono version, but is "naked" on the stereo version. Again, once you hear the mono version, it sounds "right" and the stereo version sounds like a mistake. There are several other "little" differences (the laughter at the end of "Within You, Without You" is louder in the mono version, as is the crowd noise on "Sgt. Pepper Reprise." In fact, until I heard the mono version, I didn't really NOTICE the crowd noise on the stereo version!) but to me "Lucy" and "She's Leaving Home" are the most significant. To me, it's a matter of what the Beatles WANTED. The mono version is what they wanted the world to hear. For the last several decades, this is not what the world has heard. It's a shame that EMI elected to make the mono version so relatively hard for people to hear... I think it was mentioned earlier but I believe Lennon said something to the effect that if you haven't heard Peppers in Mono you haven't heard Peppers. Harrison said he only heard the Stereo version on the 70's and didn't like what he heard. I've said it before but I never really liked Pepper as a whole album before I heard the Mono version on the new re-issue, I liked some of the songs but the whole thing just seems to flow better in Mono. And "She's Leaving Home" is like a different song in Mono. However, if you're on a budget I think you can avoid "Let It Be", it really is the worst of the lot, when you read a few of the books mentioned in this thread and find out the circumstances under which it was recorded, it's not hard to see why. Phil Spector's involvement didn't help either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks Lon and Alexander for your comments. FWIW - I don't think the stereo version "She's Leaving Home" is too slow or draggy as many have commented in comparison to the Mono - I have heard both many times and I really prefer the speed on the stereo. In my thinking about the mono box, it occurred to me somewhat belatedly to pull out my Beatles Capitol sessions Cds since they have mono versions, granted they are not the same as the British. After comparing those to the new 2009 stereos on the first two albums, I get a sense of what the mono fans are talking about - the overall feel is that the songs rock harder in mono. On the other hand, I do also get the sense of what perhaps Lon was referring to in an earlier message, in Mono it seems to me that the vocals are up front and the instruments appear more recessed in the mix and on the stereo 2009 versions the instruments are very up front on par with the vocals. I guess you can't have it all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 in Mono it seems to me that the vocals are up front and the instruments appear more recessed in the mix and on the stereo 2009 versions the instruments are very up front on par with the vocals. ????? Unless they brought the vocals further back on the new stereo masters, it is exactly the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I "A/B"ed the mono and stereo versions of "Sgt. Pepper" this afternoon and I think, for a number of reasons, that the mono version sounds better. The biggest difference, of course, is "She's Leaving Home." As has been noted elsewhere, the mono version is faster than the stereo and is pitched higher. At first, it's a little disconcerting, but the ear prefers it after only a few listenings. In comparison, the stereo version now sounds draggy. It's obvious that the Beatles MEANT "She's Leaving Home" to be faster and higher in pitch. For whatever reason, the engineers didn't get the memo and forgot to apply the varispeed to the stereo mix. But the slower version is what we all know. Similarly, John's vocal on "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" has been treated with a phasing effect on the mono version, but is "naked" on the stereo version. Again, once you hear the mono version, it sounds "right" and the stereo version sounds like a mistake. There are several other "little" differences (the laughter at the end of "Within You, Without You" is louder in the mono version, as is the crowd noise on "Sgt. Pepper Reprise." In fact, until I heard the mono version, I didn't really NOTICE the crowd noise on the stereo version!) but to me "Lucy" and "She's Leaving Home" are the most significant. To me, it's a matter of what the Beatles WANTED. The mono version is what they wanted the world to hear. For the last several decades, this is not what the world has heard. It's a shame that EMI elected to make the mono version so relatively hard for people to hear... I think it was mentioned earlier but I believe Lennon said something to the effect that if you haven't heard Peppers in Mono you haven't heard Peppers. Harrison said he only heard the Stereo version on the 70's and didn't like what he heard. I've said it before but I never really liked Pepper as a whole album before I heard the Mono version on the new re-issue, I liked some of the songs but the whole thing just seems to flow better in Mono. And "She's Leaving Home" is like a different song in Mono. However, if you're on a budget I think you can avoid "Let It Be", it really is the worst of the lot, when you read a few of the books mentioned in this thread and find out the circumstances under which it was recorded, it's not hard to see why. Believe it or not, IMO Let It Be is better than Abbey Road, not that LIB doesn't have a clunker or two, but AR has more in my book and the great songs on LIB are better than the great songs on AR. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 in Mono it seems to me that the vocals are up front and the instruments appear more recessed in the mix and on the stereo 2009 versions the instruments are very up front on par with the vocals. ????? Unless they brought the vocals further back on the new stereo masters, it is exactly the opposite. That's how it sounds to me. Perhaps because the instruments seem to get their own channel and the sound in stereo is so much wider and more enveloping. Have you heard the stereo 2009 remasters - your post indicates you have not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasing the Korean Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I have not. But the instruments are buried so far below the vocals on most of those mixes, they would have had to have reduced the phantom center channel (usually vocals) to bring out the instruments. Maybe that's what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Mine has been shipped. Scheduled to hit on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalupa Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 This sounds like it was improvised on the spot. Worth a listen if just to hear Macca play lead at the end of the song. ------------------------------------------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watching_Rainbows ""Watching Rainbows" is an unreleased song by The Beatles recorded on January 14, 1969 during the massive Get Back sessions at Twickenham Studios. It features John Lennon on lead vocal and electric piano, Paul McCartney on lead guitar, and Ringo Starr on drums; bass guitar is absent from the song because Paul McCartney is playing the absent George Harrison's usual role as lead electric guitar. George Harrison had temporarily left the group at this stage of the sessions." ------------------------------------------------------ I have the Norman book and read back in the 80's. I remember it being good but that might have more to do w/ it being the only one out there at the time. Probably not too much new info on them that hasn't been written about elsewhere since it was published. I also have "The Complete Beatles Recoding Sessions" and find it fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 The Maharishi Song Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) This sounds like it was improvised on the spot. Worth a listen if just to hear Macca play lead at the end of the song. ------------------------------------------------------- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watching_Rainbows ""Watching Rainbows" is an unreleased song by The Beatles recorded on January 14, 1969 during the massive Get Back sessions at Twickenham Studios. It features John Lennon on lead vocal and electric piano, Paul McCartney on lead guitar, and Ringo Starr on drums; bass guitar is absent from the song because Paul McCartney is playing the absent George Harrison's usual role as lead electric guitar. George Harrison had temporarily left the group at this stage of the sessions." Great song. Thanks for sharing. Why wasn't this included on Anthology 3? Yes, its a bit rough around the edges, but I still find it to be a very exciting recording / session, confirming that my favorite Beatles period is still 1968-69. Obviously, I'm in the minority here as many have cited above the 66-67 period as the peak of their creative energies. I won't argue against there being some really innovative production back in the earlier period, and while I love Revolver and Peppers as much (or almost as much) as the next guy, I kind of prefer it when they got back to just going at it -- "playing" instead of "producing" --, the way they did in the White Album sessions. Sure once in a while they miss it during these latter years, but more often than not they hit it, and often times its out of the park. Edited October 24, 2009 by Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) I wasn't going to get it because its considered one of their lesser albums but I picked up the Stereo version of Beatles For Sale and I am in love. Its pure audio candy. Something about the use of the four track and that they were still playing songs that were finished with a live in studio feel just makes this sound so warm. When Lennon sings: "And so its true pride comes before a fall Im telling you so that you wont lose all" on I'm A Loser it really does sound like he is signing right at you and the Bealtes are playing in your living room. I think of in terms of the biggest improvement sound wise over the 87 CD's this one is a great example. This is the most I have enjoyed this album in 30 years since I was a little kid. Edited October 26, 2009 by WorldB3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quincy Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I wasn't going to get it because its considered one of their lesser albums but I picked up the Stereo version of Beatles For Sale and I am in love. Its pure audio candy. Something about the use of the four track and that they were still playing songs that were finished with a live in studio feel just makes this sound so warm. When Lennon sings: "And so its true pride comes before a fall Im telling you so that you wont lose all" on I'm A Loser it really does sound like he is signing right at you and the Bealtes are playing in your living room. I think of in terms of the biggest improvement sound wise over the 87 CD's this one is a great example. This is the most I have enjoyed this album in 30 years since I was a little kid. Excellent! The (((stereo))) remaster sounds insanely great, especially the acoustic guitar, which contributes to the "living room effect." One of the reasons (I think) why I enjoy this album so much today is that it probably was the least played of all that owned. But it also because of the number of great Lennon vocals too. My mono box should arrive any day now, but at least vs. a vinyl drop mono dub this one I prefer in stereo. Contrary to current opinion, stereo isn't always inferior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 I have both the Stereo and Mono Boxes and, I agree, the stereo "Beatles For Sale" is a real revelation and has been getting heavy rotation. Thus far, the other revelation is that, to my ears, Magical Mystery Tour sounds best in mono. Glad I have both boxes to sample, even if I'm now completely broke! I'm in Beatles heaven!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSngry Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Say "hi!" to John & George for me, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDK Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Mono Box just arrived! I'd previously, er, found a listening version, but it's nice to hold the real thing in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Say "hi!" to John & George for me, ok? John and George say "Hi"!! Jimi, Janis and Jim wanted me to say hello too!!!...oh, and I almost forgot Mama Cass... Hell of a Band!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldB3 Posted October 26, 2009 Report Share Posted October 26, 2009 Say "hi!" to John & George for me, ok? I tried but all metaphysical inquires are getting routed to Seth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw21925 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I wasn't going to get it because its considered one of their lesser albums but I picked up the Stereo version of Beatles For Sale and I am in love. Its pure audio candy. Something about the use of the four track and that they were still playing songs that were finished with a live in studio feel just makes this sound so warm. When Lennon sings: "And so its true pride comes before a fall Im telling you so that you wont lose all" on I'm A Loser it really does sound like he is signing right at you and the Bealtes are playing in your living room. I think of in terms of the biggest improvement sound wise over the 87 CD's this one is a great example. This is the most I have enjoyed this album in 30 years since I was a little kid. Excellent! The (((stereo))) remaster sounds insanely great, especially the acoustic guitar, which contributes to the "living room effect." One of the reasons (I think) why I enjoy this album so much today is that it probably was the least played of all that owned. But it also because of the number of great Lennon vocals too. My mono box should arrive any day now, but at least vs. a vinyl drop mono dub this one I prefer in stereo. Contrary to current opinion, stereo isn't always inferior. I always thought "Beatles for Sale" was underrated, there's some great stuff on there. One cool thing, according to Lewisohn's "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions", Chuck Berry's "Rock and Roll Music" was recorded in one take, with the Beatles in their usual 2 guitar, bass and drums configuration, and George Martin on piano. No overdubs, no "bouncing down" of tracks, a totally live in the studio recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeith Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Has anybody found a better price on the stereo CD's (individually or box) anywhere? I've been holding out for affordability reasons. I assume the Target sale is over at this point (I actually don't have one particularly convenient to where I live or work). felser, I was in J&R in NYC today and they are selling the stereo cds for $10.99 each, except for the double cds. Not sure whether the deal is the same online. regards, Edited October 27, 2009 by skeith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceH Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 I have both the Stereo and Mono Boxes and, I agree, the stereo "Beatles For Sale" is a real revelation and has been getting heavy rotation. Thus far, the other revelation is that, to my ears, Magical Mystery Tour sounds best in mono. Glad I have both boxes to sample, even if I'm now completely broke! I'm in Beatles heaven!! That's funny, I was not long ago listening to Zombie Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzbo Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Yes, J&R online has those prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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