Jazz CD sales down by 80% since 2001!

[BillF]

I've actually never found it easier - or cheaper - to acquire music than at present.

I would have agreed with you last year, but my online purchases have become decidedly more expensive following the drastic decline in the value of the pound against the dollar and euro some months ago. (Thankfully, thngs have picked up slightly recently.)

[AndrewHill]

Not surprised by the drastic decline in cd sales, its a sign of the times, which sucks for someone like me who owns 1000's of cd's and who would like to continue to build his collection in that direction. I'm not about to dump all the cd's I have collected for over 20 years and convert them to downloads/files. God knows, in a couple of years, downloads/files will be obsolete and there will be something even more spiffy and convenient coming our way. Thus, in sum, I feel kinda feel screwed as a cd buyer.

[A Lark Ascending]

Not surprised by the drastic decline in cd sales, its a sign of the times, which sucks for someone like me who owns 1000's of cd's and who would like to continue to build his collection in that direction. I'm not about to dump all the cd's I have collected for over 20 years and convert them to downloads/files. God knows, in a couple of years, downloads/files will be obsolete and there will be something even more spiffy and convenient coming our way. Thus, in sum, I feel kinda feel screwed as a cd buyer.

I've not dumped my CDs...in fact I continue to convert the downloads to CD-R. I feel comforted by a physical product on the shelf!

[Claude]

I'm not about to dump all the cd's I have collected for over 20 years and convert them to downloads/files. God knows, in a couple of years, downloads/files will be obsolete and there will be something even more spiffy and convenient coming our way.

What would that be? Music is now digital data, on CD or in computer files. There are no other possibilities to distribute digital data than on a physical medium or a data file. Streaming digital data is another option, but that's a different way of selling content (on demand listening).

One important difference between CDs and downloads that many people ignore is the fact that CDs can be resold, while downloads cannot. For that reason, downloads should be much cheaper than CDs.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Claude

[BruceH]

I think DVD sales are declining parallel to CD's.

[mikeweil]

I think a big part of the problem is that most stores do no longer have personnel with a thorough or even basic knowledge of jazz. They buy what they happen to know or what the distibutors' salemen thrust on them. These are the people that are clueless, as they know only about 1% of the music that is available.

I once heard of a case where one store chain cancelled their relationship to one small label distributor due to minor sales figures. That says it all.

Edited July 25, 2009 by mikeweil

[Daniel A]

One important difference between CDs and downloads that many people ignore is the fact that CDs can be resold, while downloads cannot. For that reason, downloads should be much cheaper than CDs.

Good point. Last time there was a format shift (LP to CD) the industry tried to increase its margin by setting the list price of CDs much higher than LPs. While downloads are not exactly more expensive than CDs, they should at least be a bit cheaper.

The fact remains that the compact disc is considered as outdated as VHS cassettes in most quarters. And while people still want to take music with them in their Ipods, soon streaming will be the only viable option at home. Why waste time on downloading anything if it's instantly available for streaming, which it soon will be. "Spotify" (or similar services) is the next logical step.

[A Lark Ascending]

I think a big part of the problem is that most stores do no longer have personnel with a thorough or even basic knowledge of jazz. They buy what they happen to know or what the distibutors' salemen thrust on them. These are the people that are clueless, as they know only about 1% of the music that is available.

I once heard of a case where one store chain cancelled their relationship to one small label distributor due to minor sales figures. That says it all.

This became irrelevant a few years back when the big companies took the initiative out of the hands of local managers and started ordering centrally. Back in the 80s/90s I used to be able to travel to Leeds, Nottingham, Sheffield, Leicester and get a different CD buying experience from the big Virgin and HMVs and the plentiful independents. I rarely go to any of them now.

One important difference between CDs and downloads that many people ignore is the fact that CDs can be resold, while downloads cannot. For that reason, downloads should be much cheaper than CDs.

They are over here! CDs have always been much more expensive in the UK than in the States or mainland Europe. A couple of years ago an ECM would set you back £15 in the shops. On iTunes you pay £8.99 (which I'd imagine would still be seen as expensive in the US). The back catalogue on e-music is much chreaper (maybe not so when the new pricing kicks in here).

I've rarely resold a CD - last time I off-loaded some I was getting little more than £2.00 for things I paid 5x plus as much for. I tend to keep things on the grounds that, even if I'm not playing a CD now, the day may come when I want to hear it again. Creates storeage problems but I dealt with that by throwing out all the jewel boxes (which means I'll never be able to sell them).

Why waste time on downloading anything if it's instantly available for streaming, which it soon will be. "Spotify" (or similar services) is the next logical step.

Although I use Spotify I'm still locked into the 'need to own' mentality. I preview there but like my own copy.

I suspect to a new generation who have never or rarely owned CDs the idea of having a physical copy will seem quite daft.

[sidewinder]

the still excellent jazz and classical shops in Bath - and that was just a by-product of being in the city for the festival.

Yeah - 'Music Matters' is my local shop. Thank goodness some things in life haven't changed !

[sidewinder]

Some interesting comments in the Blue Note article in this month's 'Jazzwise' in the interview with Bruce Lundvall and Michael Cuscuna. It mentions that the 100+ RVGs that have recently been made OOP will be replaced by downloads via a new 'souped up' Blue Note site (and no doubt the whole catalogue will eventually be available on there). Blue Note are also dabbling/testing the waters with CD/LP combined packages at $20 for what seems to be a mainly student fraternity that likes to have a vinyl copy as well as the convenience of the CD. Mosaic's new foray back into LPs was also mentioned by Michael Cuscuna - although these are intended to be full album releases and not equivalents of the CD boxes. For example, for the forthcoming Ahmad Jamal Argo it looks like the LP set will be a reduced offering with a bundling of the key LPs, whereas the CD set will be the full blown 'complete' package.

Edited July 26, 2009 by sidewinder

[David Ayers]

I suspect to a new generation who have never or rarely owned CDs the idea of having a physical copy will seem quite daft.

Um, not just to a new generation. I want to listen to music, not 'own' it. And as I keep saying, when the Lord of the Rings Trilogy retails in store for £10 ($15) there is something wrong with the price point for a CD of forty minutes of music recorded 20 or 40 years ago.

[Claude]

For example, for the forthcoming Ahmad Jamal Argo it looks like the LP set will be a reduced offering with a bundling of the key LPs, whereas the CD set will be the full blown 'complete' package.

That makes perfect sense, since today most LP buyers prefer reissues of the original albums.

[A Lark Ascending]

Blue Note are also dabbling/testing the waters with CD/LP combined packages at $20 for what seems to be a mainly student fraternity that likes to have a vinyl copy as well as the convenience of the CD.

No wonder students end their courses in such debt!

I'm materialist enough to want to own a copy of the music I play; but the idea of buying it in two formats doesn't compute in my brain. Can't see such a 'boutique' approach lasting long.

[sidewinder]

Blue Note are also dabbling/testing the waters with CD/LP combined packages at $20 for what seems to be a mainly student fraternity that likes to have a vinyl copy as well as the convenience of the CD.

No wonder students end their courses in such debt!

I'm materialist enough to want to own a copy of the music I play; but the idea of buying it in two formats doesn't compute in my brain. Can't see such a 'boutique' approach lasting long.

Yeah - doesn't jibe at all either with my own student experience - by and large limited to scouring the £2 deletions/sale/cutout rack whilst the £10+ King/Toshiba Blue Note import rack at Mole remained tantalisingly out of reach ! That and living on baked beans and sausages...

[papsrus]

I'm not about to dump all the cd's I have collected for over 20 years and convert them to downloads/files. God knows, in a couple of years, downloads/files will be obsolete and there will be something even more spiffy and convenient coming our way.

What would that be?

Direct implants.

I can envision the customer complaint department:

(After three-hour wait on hold) -- "I, I, I, I ordered the complete Blue Note catalog implant and you implanted the "Complete Dance to the '80s! Set on perpetual shuffle!" ... "Sorry sir, you'll have to contact our technical support division in Nairobi on Monday. Have I answered all your questions today?"

[BillF]

I'm not about to dump all the cd's I have collected for over 20 years and convert them to downloads/files. God knows, in a couple of years, downloads/files will be obsolete and there will be something even more spiffy and convenient coming our way.

What would that be?

Direct implants.

I can envision the customer complaint department:

(After three-hour wait on hold) -- "I, I, I, I ordered the complete Blue Note catalog implant and you implanted the "Complete Dance to the '80s! Set on perpetual shuffle!" ... "Sorry sir, you'll have to contact our technical support division in Nairobi on Monday. Have I answered all your questions today?"

[David Ayers]

Well yeah a serious point there, and not just regarding the technology which is only a matter of time, I should have thought, but more to the point - in these days of multi-channel multi-media multi-platform entertainment avalanche am I really alone in just wanting to SHUT EVERYTHING OUT? Why would I want MORE? What is MORE than EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME?

[Matthew]

Well yeah a serious point there, and not just regarding the technology which is only a matter of time, I should have thought, but more to the point - in these days of multi-channel multi-media multi-platform entertainment avalanche am I really alone in just wanting to SHUT EVERYTHING OUT? Why would I want MORE? What is MORE than EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME?

This is a good point. I, myself, feel overwhelmed by all the media I have in my daily life, cell-phone, computer, incessant noise everywhere, it really is getting to be too much. I find that I'm going more and more for quietness, of not wanting to add any more noise to my life. Because of this feeling, outside of Grateful Dead releases, I have not bought any other music for two years, and now that I have XM radio, I don't even have that Grateful Dead urge in me. It's a major issue for me right now, how much media do I really want in my life?

[A Lark Ascending]

As individuals, we can all filter, as we've always done.

I have a TV in the corner of my living room - I could complain about how there's too much there (even without satellite). Instead, I don't turn it on very often...I don't think I've hit double figures this year in TV programmes watched. It's a great bit of technology...but I prefer other options ost of the time.

What I do find annoying is the need to fill public places with sound. If I'm between concerts at a festival I like to find a quiet cafe/pub to sit in, either to read quietly or listen to my own iPod. It's nearly impossible to find a place in most towns where there isn't a 1:1 kiddiepop beat thumping out.

I'm more than happy in the current land of plenty. Just like a library doesn't phase me because there are too many books, so the multiplicity of entertainment options causes me no grief. I expect most of us have designed our own pathways through the jungle.

[Tjazz]

The jazz sales are probably influenced by releases by Kenny G, Harry Connick Jr, so some other soft jazz artist. (Norah Jones?) The Mosaic sets or Blue Note re-issues might not make a dent. Ken Burns jazz series helped boost jazz sales for awhile.

[Jazzmoose]

Well yeah a serious point there, and not just regarding the technology which is only a matter of time, I should have thought, but more to the point - in these days of multi-channel multi-media multi-platform entertainment avalanche am I really alone in just wanting to SHUT EVERYTHING OUT? Why would I want MORE? What is MORE than EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME?

This is a good point. I, myself, feel overwhelmed by all the media I have in my daily life, cell-phone, computer, incessant noise everywhere, it really is getting to be too much. I find that I'm going more and more for quietness, of not wanting to add any more noise to my life. Because of this feeling, outside of Grateful Dead releases, I have not bought any other music for two years, and now that I have XM radio, I don't even have that Grateful Dead urge in me. It's a major issue for me right now, how much media do I really want in my life?

I agree completely. I thought I was just getting old and grumpy (well, maybe I am and you guys are as well; I can't rule that out!) I used to have music playing at home all the time. Now, it's easier than ever to find music with online sources, but most of the time silence is the choice as my apartment has become an oasis away from the cacophony of modern life. Turn off the cell phone, lock the door, and spend time with my cat and the silence. Rediscover books. Think. That sort of thing.

It's strange...back when I was a teenaged SF fanatic, I thought being totally inundated with media and media choices looked like a great vision of the future. Now that I see it in real life, I'm not so sure...

[Jazzmoose]

As individuals, we can all filter, as we've always done.

I think that's one of my problems; when it comes to music in public areas, I seem to have lost the ability to filter. At home, I can just turn everything off, but at work, with piped in music playing all day, my brain just can't seem to ignore it. No one else there seems to have any trouble blocking out the music, but I just keep listening.

[A Lark Ascending]

As individuals, we can all filter, as we've always done.

I think that's one of my problems; when it comes to music in public areas, I seem to have lost the ability to filter. At home, I can just turn everything off, but at work, with piped in music playing all day, my brain just can't seem to ignore it. No one else there seems to have any trouble blocking out the music, but I just keep listening.

No, I too can't filter out unsolicited music in public places. However, technology has made it less necessary to go to those public places. I imagine that this is not the case for those living in a big city...but living in a small rural market town I find I can now miss the worst of it. And the bird-twittering countryside is a ten minute walk away.

I have found myself increasingly turning down offers of 'a night in town', largely because I can't cope with trying to hear people or talk to people over music.

I really feel for you having to endure unsolicited music at work! Given all the other health and safety regulaions that tie us up, you'd have thought there would be legislation to stop the undue stress caused by unwanted music! Bizarre that getting the right to play music to paying customers who choose to hear it can be so fraught with red tape (at least here in the UK), yet background muzak is allowed to flourish.

I blame Brian Eno.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Bev Stapleton

[papsrus]

OK, speaking of silence -- has anyone been to a place where there is actually no, zero, nada, no man-made noise at all? I mean nothing. No hum of electrical wires, or drone of a distant highway? No planes flying overhead, or train whistles. Nothing. Getting to such a place is not that easy. I don't believe such a place exists within a day's drive from where I live. Perhaps taking a boat straight out into the gulf for 30 - 40 miles might do the trick. But I would not be surprised if such a place were impossible to find east of the Mississippi in the lower 48.

[papsrus]

Sensory deprivation tank?