Yes, let's just lock everything up

[connoisseur series500]

Why is it that at least one of the moderators is so quick to lock up a thread? Can't we have discussions any more? Talk about abuse of authority! I'm close to quitting this place, and I would if I didn't use the buying/looking for thread to sell stuff. Plus I want to keep up with some friends. But this board is about bad vibes right now.

I'm a little steamed right now.

Edited May 1, 2010 by connoisseur series500

[Son-of-a-Weizen]

Conn,

It was another of Allen's threads....this one taunting the other moderator. Jim responded to the thread up in Forums Discussion and it seems pretty clear where he stands on the matter and that it's time to move on. No music related threads are being locked....no threads in political, etc..but this 'incident' regarding the picture has run it's course.

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

[connoisseur series500]

Conn,

It was another of Allen's threads....this one taunting the other moderator. Jim responded to the thread up in Forums Discussion and it seems pretty clear where he stands on the matter and that it's time to move on. No music related threads are being locked....no threads in political, etc..but this 'incident' regarding the picture has run it's course.

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

It's more than that, Weizy.

I didn't like the way the Art Pepper Mosaic Select thread was so unceremoniously shut down. I thought that although there was some pique displayed on both sides of the argument, there was also some cogent discussion going on. I'm actually more pissed about that quick and capricious moderation than I am on what happened to Allen.

[J.A.W.]

Conn,

It was another of Allen's threads....this one taunting the other moderator. Jim responded to the thread up in Forums Discussion and it seems pretty clear where he stands on the matter and that it's time to move on. No music related threads are being locked....no threads in political, etc..but this 'incident' regarding the picture has run it's course.

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

It's more than that, Weizy.

I didn't like the way the Art Pepper Mosaic Select thread was so unceremoniously shut down. I thought that although there was some pique displayed on both sides of the argument, there was also some cogent discussion going on. I'm actually more pissed about that quick and capricious moderation than I am on what happened to Allen.

The Art Pepper Mosaic Select sale thread was locked because the seller wanted to close the sale.

[connoisseur series500]

Conn,

It was another of Allen's threads....this one taunting the other moderator. Jim responded to the thread up in Forums Discussion and it seems pretty clear where he stands on the matter and that it's time to move on. No music related threads are being locked....no threads in political, etc..but this 'incident' regarding the picture has run it's course.

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

It's more than that, Weizy.

I didn't like the way the Art Pepper Mosaic Select thread was so unceremoniously shut down. I thought that although there was some pique displayed on both sides of the argument, there was also some cogent discussion going on. I'm actually more pissed about that quick and capricious moderation than I am on what happened to Allen.

The Art Pepper Mosaic Select sale thread was locked because the seller wanted to close the sale.

He requested that you close it?

[J.A.W.]

Conn,

It was another of Allen's threads....this one taunting the other moderator. Jim responded to the thread up in Forums Discussion and it seems pretty clear where he stands on the matter and that it's time to move on. No music related threads are being locked....no threads in political, etc..but this 'incident' regarding the picture has run it's course.

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

It's more than that, Weizy.

I didn't like the way the Art Pepper Mosaic Select thread was so unceremoniously shut down. I thought that although there was some pique displayed on both sides of the argument, there was also some cogent discussion going on. I'm actually more pissed about that quick and capricious moderation than I am on what happened to Allen.

The Art Pepper Mosaic Select sale thread was locked because the seller wanted to close the sale.

He requested that you close it?

He wanted the sale closed and that's why the thread was locked.

[papsrus]

Every once in a while I begin to suspect that illegal terroists immigrants have spiked the water supply with pornography acid. ... Seriously.

[ghost of miles]

So now the "Forbidden topics" thread is locked as well?

Edited May 1, 2010 by ghost of miles

[Christiern]

Please, Jim A., don't allow Organissimo's forum to model its policing activity after the Hoffman forum. I enjoy much that is in Steve H's forum, but those so-called "Gorts" definitely abuse their power—which, I sense, is beginning to happen here. Let's be above that sort of thing and handle such differences of opinion in a civil manner. It costs nothing and it feels ever so much better.

Yeah, I know—look who's talking. I have been both a victim and an instigator—neither is the least bit useful.

[Jim Alfredson]

Yes because there's nothing to discuss. I stand behind the action taken in the other thread. Read the rules, the mods have the final say in what is considered objectionable. There was a beef with how the edited post was labeled. That's been worked out in PM. End of story.

Theres no abuse of power going on. Compare this forum with almost any other on the web and you'll realize that we are extremely relaxed around here. This is mountain being made of a mole hill.

[ghost of miles]

Yes because there's nothing to discuss. I stand behind the action taken in the other thread. Read the rules, the mods have the final say in what is considered objectionable. There was a beef with how the edited post was labeled. That's been worked out in PM. End of story.

Theres no abuse of power going on. Compare this forum with almost any other on the web and you'll realize that we are extremely relaxed around here. This is mountain being made of a mole hill.

Yes, I know the rules etc. and I know this has been, in the past, an extremely relaxed forum. Putting aside the dustup over one poster's umbrage, locking Jazzmoose's thread strikes me as excessive and also "making a mountain out of a molehill." I know--I don't like it, I can take my ball somewhere else and play, etc. etc. That's not what I'm saying here, simply that locking threads because of one board member seems heavy-handed and unnecessary to me, and a departure from past board practice.

[connoisseur series500]

I didn't notice Jassmoose's "Forbidden threads" when I started this one. I guess we had similar concerns, but it should have been kept to a single thread.

[J.A.W.]

Yes because there's nothing to discuss. I stand behind the action taken in the other thread. Read the rules, the mods have the final say in what is considered objectionable. There was a beef with how the edited post was labeled. That's been worked out in PM. End of story.

Theres no abuse of power going on. Compare this forum with almost any other on the web and you'll realize that we are extremely relaxed around here. This is mountain being made of a mole hill.

Yes, I know the rules etc. and I know this has been, in the past, an extremely relaxed forum. Putting aside the dustup over one poster's umbrage, locking Jazzmoose's thread strikes me as excessive and also "making a mountain out of a molehill." I know--I don't like it, I can take my ball somewhere else and play, etc. etc. That's not what I'm saying here, simply that locking threads because of one board member seems heavy-handed and unnecessary to me, and a departure from past board practice.

That thread turned out to be about how a topic had been moderated. As Jim said, that's now been dealt with and that's why the thread was locked; let's move on.

It is not my intention to introduce a heavy-handed moderation here, on the contrary; besides, Jim wouldn't allow it

[neveronfriday]

I think Hans is doing a good job.

[connoisseur series500]

So, what are you selling? Got a Max Roach Mosaic for me?

Interested in any Bill Evans' box sets?

[Jazzmoose]

Just thought I'd get a post in before this thread gets locked as well...

[AllenLowe]

I'm feeling good. The weather is nice. The dog is wagging his tail. This is the time of year that I actually like living in Maine.

[Christiern]

Yes, let's move on, but first...how about somebody admitting that he over-reacted, is sorry, and has learned from the experience. Then, indeed, we can move on with some degree of confidence that this was a learning experience for and not a call for defensive postures.

We would all like to get back to the obese patriotic singer who had a country placing radio sets on its desks.

[Jim Alfredson]

Who overreacted? The mod? I don't think he did. He deleted material he determined objectionable, which was well within his duty as a moderator. You may not agree that it was objectionable, but you're not a moderator. As the rules state, the mods have the power to determine what is and isn't objectionable content.

I added two moderators to help out while I'm on the road. I don't have time to check in and worry about this stuff. I've been away from home for 18 days (with a short stop back home for a birthday and two organissimo gigs) and now I'll be out until the end of May, in a different city every day. I don't have the energy to run this place, so the five mods have my blessing to do the job. I picked people who I trust will be fair and I think they're doing a good job.

Why does locking a thread always lead to some sort of "the mods are running rampant!!!! FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH" farce? You guys enjoy a pretty unfettered experience here, able to post basically whatever you want on any thread you want, derailing things, posting "witty" one-liners, emoticons, etc. to your heart's content.

Seriously; one thread was already closed on this subject, so what do you do? You start another one. So what does it really matter?

Put things in perspective, please.

[AllenLowe]

well, these threads, like my old high school chemistry teacher, are like Zombies - you kill 'em and they just come back to life.

this one may require a cross, two stakes through the heart, and a gypsy curse to get to sleep.

Edited May 1, 2010 by AllenLowe

[connoisseur series500]

Why does locking a thread always lead to some sort of "the mods are running rampant!!!! FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH" farce? You guys enjoy a pretty unfettered experience here, able to post basically whatever you want on any thread you want, derailing things, posting "witty" one-liners, emoticons, etc. to your heart's content.

All fine, Jim. But my problem is that one of your moderators has closed...what? how many threads now within a short time span? I can count the Art Pepper, the one started by Jazzmoose, and two from Lowe (ok, Allen is a bit of a provacateur)

Let's just say that the trend is rather disturbing. That's all. No need to get too worked up on your end either, and I know you don't have the time to worry about this board, but if moderators start routinely shutting down threads, perhaps someone has to monitor the monitor. Might be worthwhile to see if this trend continues. I think this suggestion is reasonable enough.

[J.A.W.]

Why does locking a thread always lead to some sort of "the mods are running rampant!!!! FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH" farce? You guys enjoy a pretty unfettered experience here, able to post basically whatever you want on any thread you want, derailing things, posting "witty" one-liners, emoticons, etc. to your heart's content.

All fine, Jim. But my problem is that one of your moderators has closed...what? how many threads now within a short time span? I can count the Art Pepper, the one started by Jazzmoose, and two from Lowe (ok, Allen is a bit of a provacateur)

Let's just say that the trend is rather disturbing. That's all. No need to get too worked up on your end either, and I know you don't have the time to worry about this board, but if moderators start routinely shutting down threads, perhaps someone has to monitor the monitor. Might be worthwhile to see if this trend continues. I think this suggestion is reasonable enough.

I already explained earlier in this thread why I locked the Pepper sale thread (posts 4 and 6) and the thread that Jazzmoose started (post 13).

[Big Wheel]

A suggestion: when locking threads, I think it would be useful if the moderator who closed the thread posted a brief (1 sentence) explanation of why they locked it. Two reasons for this:

1) It gives the moderators a bit of a human face and at least counteracts the perception that any thread of yours can be "bombed from 30000 feet", so to speak, without you having any idea who did it or why;

2) It gives people an idea of how the moderators tend to interpret the rules. If I have no idea what caused a thread to get locked, I'm not going to do anything different in the future. Whereas if I know that the moderators generally lock threads for doing X, I'm probably going to be more cautious when I think about posting something with X in it.

I realize that this kind of non-anonymous moderation means that a mod will probably get more PMs from people contesting the decision to lock. NOT saying that a mod needs to respond to these and engage people in long discussions over this or that point - but as we can see in this thread, the current system of moderating isn't exactly preventing those kinds of annoying discussions, either. It just tends to make them more public because lots of others get confused as to what the hell happened.

[connoisseur series500]

Why does locking a thread always lead to some sort of "the mods are running rampant!!!! FREE SPEECH FREE SPEECH" farce? You guys enjoy a pretty unfettered experience here, able to post basically whatever you want on any thread you want, derailing things, posting "witty" one-liners, emoticons, etc. to your heart's content.

All fine, Jim. But my problem is that one of your moderators has closed...what? how many threads now within a short time span? I can count the Art Pepper, the one started by Jazzmoose, and two from Lowe (ok, Allen is a bit of a provacateur)

Let's just say that the trend is rather disturbing. That's all. No need to get too worked up on your end either, and I know you don't have the time to worry about this board, but if moderators start routinely shutting down threads, perhaps someone has to monitor the monitor. Might be worthwhile to see if this trend continues. I think this suggestion is reasonable enough.

I already explained earlier in this thread why I locked the Pepper sale thread (posts 4 and 6) and the thread that Jazzmoose started (post 13).

Well, I think you are too quick on the trigger, Hans. But that's my opinon, and you know what? I don't have the responsibility that you have. As moderator you have to spend a good amount of time checking out the board, so I'm shutting up on this subject. I'll credit you with that. You are man enough to take the job. It's a lot easier to criticise than it is to actually perform a job. So with that, I'm done with the issue. Hopefully, we are all learning from these discussions.

[ghost of miles]

A suggestion: when locking threads, I think it would be useful if the moderator who closed the thread posted a brief (1 sentence) explanation of why they locked it. Two reasons for this:

1) It gives the moderators a bit of a human face and at least counteracts the perception that any thread of yours can be "bombed from 30000 feet", so to speak, without you having any idea who did it or why;

2) It gives people an idea of how the moderators tend to interpret the rules. If I have no idea what caused a thread to get locked, I'm not going to do anything different in the future. Whereas if I know that the moderators generally lock threads for doing X, I'm probably going to be more cautious when I think about posting something with X in it.

I realize that this kind of non-anonymous moderation means that a mod will probably get more PMs from people contesting the decision to lock. NOT saying that a mod needs to respond to these and engage people in long discussions over this or that point - but as we can see in this thread, the current system of moderating isn't exactly preventing those kinds of annoying discussions, either. It just tends to make them more public because lots of others get confused as to what the hell happened.

Agreed, all good points. In the past there usually has been a comment from Jim to the effect that "I think we've talked about this enough," etc., usually when it was quite clear that a topic had run its course, or that a poster or group of posters were simply running on in a way that was very counterproductive and/or irrelevant--or that the thread itself had become utterly toxic and destructive to the larger purposes of the board.

Re: the "for sale" threads, why not bring back the feature that allows topic starters to delete their own threads? I've certainly missed that one on several occasions.