CTI reissues: box-set, 1971 concert, single titles

[jazzbo]

I think you'll be quite happy with the sound on "All Blues."

Sorry - no .... but the reissue engieners probably made the best of it. I never liked RVGs sound on the CTI LPs - too much noise reduction, still a lot of hiss, very artificial instrument balance, drums too low in the mix, unpersonal bass pickup sound, uniform piano sound, hardly any natural room ambiance, you name it - for my ears, a low point in jazz audio engineering. You can hardly hear Cobham's cymbals - they probably mixed them down to avoid the high level of hiss on these tapes. The playing is very good, but the recording is ruined, IMO.

Maybe the bad sound is the reason they left off this one from the first batch of CTI reissues many years ago?

Huh. Sounded fine to me. Not that crazy about a few of the selections. Some great piano playing though.

[Matthew]

WOOHOO!!!!! YEEAAHHHH!!!!!!! *runs around the room in a tizzy*

Of course, I found out this information a week after I bought the King Japan version of this cd. Hopefully, the mastering will be as good as the King, I was mightily impressed with the sound quality.

[Matthew]

Looks like there are four new releases:

In Stores April 12

• George Benson: Beyond the Blue Horizon
• Freddie Hubbard: First Light
• Don Sebesky: Giant Box
• Stanley Turrentine: Salt Song

Great news for us CTI lovers.

[Big Al]

Looks like there are four new releases:

In Stores April 12

• George Benson: Beyond the Blue Horizon
• Freddie Hubbard: First Light
• Don Sebesky: Giant Box
• Stanley Turrentine: Salt Song

Great news for us CTI lovers.

Drat! You beat me to it! I was gonna post this as soon as I logged in this morning! Ah well! Nice to know there's other CTI Nuts out there!

And I recently picked up the King reissue of GIANT BOX as well, but I'm gonna get this issue because a) this is a desert island disc for me and b) I've been mightily impressed with the sound on all the other CTI Masterworks that I'm getting all of them.

Dang, I haven't been this excited about a reissue program since the heyday of the Blue Note RVG reissues! :party:

[Matthew]

Nice reviews of the four releases here

[crisp]

Looks like there are four new releases:

In Stores April 12

• George Benson: Beyond the Blue Horizon
• Freddie Hubbard: First Light
• Don Sebesky: Giant Box
• Stanley Turrentine: Salt Song

Great news for us CTI lovers.

That's good. I'll only get Giant Box, though, as I have the others in the previous editions.

[Peter Johnson]

Has anyone compared the King vs these new reissuses (assuming there's been overlap thus far)? If so, thoughts?

[Matthew]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

[felser]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

'...Horizon' is Benson "put in the right environment". It's his masterpiece, and quite atypical for CTI (no sweetener), and my favorite jazz guitar album. The title track from the Hubbard is gorgeous in a prototypical CTI manner. Also, 'White Rabbit' is one of the best "typical" CTI's (sweetener galore, but it all works).

[Shawn]

Sounds like I need to check out that Benson album...I've avoided it over the years, but the description sounds interesting.

Salt Song is easily one of my favorite CTI albums, I have the US digi-pak release, would be interested to know how the new reissue compares.

[ShowsOn]

This week I received the CTI Masterworks version of Milt Jackson's Sunflower. Comparing it to the 1997 Epic / Legacy edition shows a night and day difference. The Legacy version sounds almost mono whereas the Masterworks version is wide stereo and has much higher fidelity. For anyone who likes this album, the remaster is definitely worth picking up, because it is like hearing a completely different recording of the album.

The most likely explanation for the difference is, as the marketing says, the Masterworks version is from the master tape, whereas the Legacy version is probably from an LP cutting master that has RVG's mastering 'tricks' on it. The Legacy version sounds more muddy and compressed, has the channels narrowed to nearly mono, has much louder bass (perhaps this is caused by the channel narrowing?) and has the treble rolled off.

Here is an MP3 that compares the section from 1 - 2 minutes of the first track first from the 1997 Legacy version followed by the same minute from the new 2011 Masterworks version:

Unfortunately there is one other big difference on the Masterworks version; track 4 - Sunflower - is 8:54 on the Masterworks version, but it is 11:04 on the Legacy version. It seems to me that they are the same take, but the Masterworks version is faded out much sooner. I noticed that The Cool Revolution box also used this shortened version. I thought, or rather was hoping, that they simply faded it out sooner on the box so that they could fit something else on the CD, but it seems the 8:54 version is considered the album version.

If anyone has an original LP of Sunflower, could you please tell me how long the track Sunflower is? I guess Masterworks have tried to present the album the way it was originally, but that means a much shorter version of one track.

Edited April 9, 2011 by ShowsOn

[Big Al]

FWIW, "Brazil" from STONE FLOWER is the same way, but you'd have to have the old OLD CD version to notice this. Always wondered what the length on the original LP was. Par for the course for CTI reissues, I'd say.

Sounds like I need to check out that Benson album...I've avoided it over the years, but the description sounds interesting.

It's a fine album, but I wouldn't call it his masterpiece (I reserve that designation for the wonderfully funky BODY TALK. That album cooks like nobody's business, like a lost James Brown album!). Not to discourage you, but there's a thing that Ron Carter does with his bass (or maybe he's doing this on a cello) that makes it sound like someone overdubbed the sessions with a Farfisa organ. Others may like it, but I find it distracting as hell.

[JSngry]

If anyone has an original LP of Sunflower, could you please tell me how long the track Sunflower is?

It's labeled @ 8:50.

[Big Al]

Now that I think about it, there were a lot of the early CD issues of the CTI's that had extended fades on some songs. I can't remember if it was FIRST LIGHT or SKY DIVE that had one song that was longer on the CD-reissue than on the LP. I asked Doug Payne about this, and he said it was because of the tapes used for the reissues or something like that (trying to remember an e-mail conversation from five years ago that I've long since deleted), and since the playing time of the CD allowed for more space for music, songs were allowed to play out until they were actually over, instead of the original fade-outs. But the Legacy digipak is interesting because I thought Legacy wasn't using the same tapes that were used for the original CD issues (and really, at this point, how does anyone know who has which original tape of a CTI session anymore?).

One more thing: listening to the new SUNFLOWER just now, and I don't miss those extra three minutes at all. IIRC, that was actually one of the reasons I sold/traded my Legacy SUNFLOWER: that song seemed to go on FOR-FRICKIN-EVER!!! I much prefer this shortened/original version.

[ShowsOn]

If anyone has an original LP of Sunflower, could you please tell me how long the track Sunflower is?

It's labeled @ 8:50.

Thanks for the confirmation. I guess I'll hang on to the old CD so I can have the long version, even though I much prefer the sound of the Masterworks version.

One of my favourite parts of the album is Herbie Hancock's piano solo on People Make the World Go Round. It's like funk, blues, soul and jazz wrapped in one solo. IT's the kind of thing he was playing on electric instruments at the time, but instead it is on an old RVG sounding acoustic piano. I think it must've been overdubbed because the electric piano is still playing at the same time.

overnight I received a shipment confirmation from ImportCDs for Giant Box and First Light, so it seems they got them a few days early.

Edited April 10, 2011 by ShowsOn

[ghost of miles]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

'...Horizon' is Benson "put in the right environment". It's his masterpiece, and quite atypical for CTI (no sweetener), and my favorite jazz guitar album. The title track from the Hubbard is gorgeous in a prototypical CTI manner. Also, 'White Rabbit' is one of the best "typical" CTI's (sweetener galore, but it all works).

Agree w/Felser--BEYOND is a really solid Benson outing, Matthew. I have the Mosaic Contemporary edition (whatever happened to that series, eh?) and probably won't be too inclined to go for the new one, but you ought to snag it if you're into GB at all.

[Matthew]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

'...Horizon' is Benson "put in the right environment". It's his masterpiece, and quite atypical for CTI (no sweetener), and my favorite jazz guitar album. The title track from the Hubbard is gorgeous in a prototypical CTI manner. Also, 'White Rabbit' is one of the best "typical" CTI's (sweetener galore, but it all works).

Agree w/Felser--BEYOND is a really solid Benson outing, Matthew. I have the Mosaic Contemporary edition (whatever happened to that series, eh?) and probably won't be too inclined to go for the new one, but you ought to snag it if you're into GB at all.

I emailed Mosaic about a month ago asking if they would ever do the Contemporary Series again: Alas, "No" was the answer, which is too bad, it seems as if Mosaic was ahead of the curve on this one, there is some wonderful, under appreciated jazz from the 1970s, especially in the CTI catalog.

On another topic: I have the Japanese edition of The Big Box, which was a 24bit remaster -- is there a noticeable sonic improvement with the 40th edition, (I don't want to spend money if both are equal)?

[Matthew]

I Noticed that those evil people at Dusty Groove have this on sale:

The CTI Jazz All-Star Band: Montreux Jazz Festival 2009

Is this any good? Worth the $34.00? I think I read a review that panned this one, in fact it might have been Doug Payne.

[felser]

I Noticed that those evil people at Dusty Groove have this on sale:

The CTI Jazz All-Star Band: Montreux Jazz Festival 2009

Is this any good? Worth the $34.00? I think I read a review that panned this one, in fact it might have been Doug Payne.

The real All-Stars of CTI have mostly left us. Here is the personnel and cuts per the DG website. To me, the CTI all-stars would be Freddie Hubbard, Stanley Turrentine, and George Benson, not Randy Brecker, Bill Evans (sax), and Russell Malone. Worth $34? Can't imagine it, if you live in the world of limited financial resources like most of us.

"Players include Randy Brecker on trumpet, Bill Evans on sax, Russell Malone on guitar, Hubert Laws on flute, Airto on percussion, George Duke on keyboards, John McLaughlin on guitar, and Flora Purim on vocals – and cuts include "Misturada", "Sugar", "Mister Clean", "Bimbe Blue", "Use Me", and "Blues March".

[jazzbo]

Airto and Flora would be the draw for me.

[Matthew]

Creed Taylor WSJ Interview

[CJ Shearn]

It's a shame Creed didn't get the All Stars together for a concert around 1990 when he briefly resurrected CTI briefly. Benson, Carter, Airto, Laws, Cobham, Deodato, James and DeJohnette are still around. Ron Carter has agreed to a CTI All Stars reunion and asked Creed to call him, but I imagine Benson would come on board only at a significant price. I would admit its not the same without Freddie, Stanley, Grover, Hank Crawford and Johnny Hammond.

Edited April 18, 2011 by CJ Shearn

[CJ Shearn]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

You should be more concerned with records he's put out recently like "Songs and Stories" and late 90's albums like "That's Right" and "Standing Together" all of which are pretty bad. Except for a legit, dirty funk tune on "That's Right" called "The Thinker" which was more CTI like than anything he's done since. If you seperate Benson's playing from the horrid backing of his smooth albums, it's passable but still nothing like Benson at his peak when he really stretched. Benson still stretches but we never get to hear it cuz he shows up at clubs and jam sessions and blows everyone away with his guitar playing.

[felser]

The Benson should be good. I have a major LOVE / HATE relationship going on with Benson right now. He's a great talent, and when put in the right environment, creates great jazz, and I get excited about him. Then he does a piece of pure crap like I Got A Woman And Some Blues, and I want to throw every cds of his in the trash.

You should be more concerned with records he's put out recently like "Songs and Stories" and late 90's albums like "That's Right" and "Standing Together" all of which are pretty bad. Except for a legit, dirty funk tune on "That's Right" called "The Thinker" which was more CTI like than anything he's done since. If you seperate Benson's playing from the horrid backing of his smooth albums, it's passable but still nothing like Benson at his peak when he really stretched. Benson still stretches but we never get to hear it cuz he shows up at clubs and jam sessions and blows everyone away with his guitar playing.

Saw him live in Philly twice in the 70's, once pre-magastardom at Just Jazz, once mid-megastardom at the Mann Music Center. He was great both times.

[CJ Shearn]

Got "Beyond the Blue Horizon", "First Light" (traded in the previous reissues) and "Salt Song", the others I ordered didn't come in yet. The sound quality should be much improved on this, been impressed with each in this new series so far.